If reincarnation is not true, then Elijah did not return before the Christ as prophesized

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I didn't dismiss, distract or demean anyone I asked nothing but legitimate questions and stated legitimate claims.

I have not ever heard even a Bible based cult use the term divide the gospel. I can't think of a single Christian church that teaches this since the days of Marcione who only accepted Luke and Paul's writings but was deemed a heretic for not accepting the other writings including the OT. If not for him those letters would not have been used as he found them.

I don't understand how dividing the gospel works and you didn't answer my question how? You dismissed it and demeaned me for asking.

And you denied that I had even asked by accusing me of the 3d's of which you yourself did all in the process. By the way, that sounds like a ready made statement used when you can't back up your claims and after so passionately arguing its virtue need to distract from the point.

Like taking your ball and going home when you're losing a game.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Text a reply to: Seede Seed, This Parazurvan is one of the numerous account of Gnosisisfaith and his bunch.

Thank you Chester John for that information and thank you for standing alone at various times. You are a warrior and your reward shall be great.

I have asked several Saul/Paul hate groups to name their reasons for the nonsense of a so called Pauline hatred but with no true results. I would like to understand more of the reason for a hated Paul but I have not had the opportunity to engage.

a reply to: Seede

Check out the previous page...

Your opponent offered a link with some interesting info on the issue

a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: Seede Check out the previous page... Your opponent offered a link with some interesting info on the issue

I read most of that material many times in the past and it does not answer what I asked. I asked Parazurvan to give me one disagreement at a time so that we could discuss them. This is a forum and dialogue should be foremost. Not the ramblings of other hate groups who can be as wrong as he is. His very first (source?) was not even identified. It started with chapter seven of an unidentified blog and he calls that a source? Yes I read it and it is almost all disinformation.
My opinions of course ---

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: Seede Check out the previous page... Your opponent offered a link with some interesting info on the issue

I read most of that material many times in the past and it does not answer what I asked. I asked Parazurvan to give me one disagreement at a time so that we could discuss them. This is a forum and dialogue should be foremost. Not the ramblings of other hate groups who can be as wrong as he is. His very first (source?) was not even identified. It started with chapter seven of an unidentified blog and he calls that a source? Yes I read it and it is almost all disinformation.
My opinions of course ---

I don't recall you asking me that and have had this conversation to death. I have plenty of good reasons and if you want to know some I gave you 3 references so if you have a specific question you should ask and don't expect me to summarize a subject that has too many reasons to list them all.

But I will tell you one.

There are and can only be 12 Apostles. Jesus set it that way and when Matthias was selected that was 12. The Spirit was a part of the process and standards are set regarding who is eligible first. Matthias filled the final spot and Paul meets none of the qualifications.

He blasphemes by self appointing him self an apostle. No apostle ever refers to or calls Paul an apostle.

He didn't have an encounter in the wilderness with Jesus and I have told you this already and that Jesus prophecies Paul as a false apostle in Matthew 24:23 exactly.

Now you have some of and enough of my reasons.

a reply to: Seede

It is rooted in their hatred for him as found in the book of Acts.

Ac 13:45, 50 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
Ac 14:2, 19 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren. And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
Ac 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

Just to show a few verse of their hatred of Paul for his preaching of Jesus. And those same Jews are still turning the hearts of some gentiles and jews from Christ gospel.

a reply to: Parazurvan

These answer identify you as Gnosisisfaith. for they are perbattem to his replies of the same a few months back.

a reply to: Parazurvan

Boy you cant find a single church because you are not interested in looking. Many many churches teach and practice right division of the word of God. Just because you don't look doesn't mean they dont exist.

You need to search the gospels study them out and their differnece and To whom was it taught to at the time.

I will list them AGAIN in the exact way they are found in the New Testament.

1) "The gospel of the kingdom" also know as the Gospel of the circumcision,

2) "The gospel of the Grace of God" also known as "the gospel which I preach unto you", "the Gospel of Christ", "the gospel of God", " the Gospel of his son", "the Gospel of Peace", "Christ's gospel", "the glorious Gospel of Christ", "the Gospel of the uncircumcision", "the Gospel of your salvation", "the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Chrsit", "the glorious Gospel", "my Gospel", and "Our Gospel".
"
3) the Everlasting Gospel

a reply to: Akragon

Re Read the word of God you will see that all Salvations of any kind include grace.

a reply to: Seede
I have gone to their sites it is all man made assumption and opinion. they tear the scriptures part and then claim Paul created his own religion. But they will answer for thier blaphemy in the end when they are asked what they did when the Gopsle of the Grace of God was preached unto them.

Silnce will be their condemnation and the lake fo fire shall be their home.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Parazurvan

Boy you cant find a single church because you are not interested in looking. Many many churches teach and practice right division of the word of God. Just because you don't look doesn't mean they dont exist.

You need to search the gospels study them out and their differnece and To whom was it taught to at the time.

I will list them AGAIN in the exact way they are found in the New Testament.

1) "The gospel of the kingdom" also know as the Gospel of the circumcision,

2) "The gospel of the Grace of God" also known as "the gospel which I preach unto you", "the Gospel of Christ", "the gospel of God", " the Gospel of his son", "the Gospel of Peace", "Christ's gospel", "the glorious Gospel of Christ", "the Gospel of the uncircumcision", "the Gospel of your salvation", "the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Chrsit", "the glorious Gospel", "my Gospel", and "Our Gospel".
"
3) the Everlasting Gospel

You didn't name one actual church.

Those were just random phrases.

a reply to: Parazurvan

I don't recall you asking me that and have had this conversation to death. I have plenty of good reasons and if you want to know some I gave you 3 references so if you have a specific question you should ask and don't expect me to summarize a subject that has too many reasons to list them all. But I will tell you one. There are and can only be 12 Apostles. Jesus set it that way and when Matthias was selected that was 12. The Spirit was a part of the process and standards are set regarding who is eligible first. Matthias filled the final spot and Paul meets none of the qualifications. He blasphemes by self appointing him self an apostle. No apostle ever refers to or calls Paul an apostle. He didn't have an encounter in the wilderness with Jesus and I have told you this already and that Jesus prophecies Paul as a false apostle in Matthew 24:23 exactly. Now you have some of and enough of my reasons.

Now that is much better than a bunch of no sources tying to express your own mind. I am not about to read lengthy rants of other people or videos of the same. You have a keyboard and a brain and in a forum you are expected to use them. I asked for only one at time so will discuss Saul/Paul being an Apostle of Jesus the Christ.

As Judas was an apostle of Jesus and last saw the Lord in the garden at His arrest, He then killed himself as is reported. The election of another to replace Judas is not recorded as approved by Jesus. Neither before or after His crucifixion. Why should I believe this? Because in the gospel of Thomas Jesus told His disciples before His death that his brother Jacob was to be the foundation of the synagogue. If Jesus had wanted Judas replaced He would have named the replacement. Instead the eleven drew lots and the lot fell upon Matthias.

Did Jesus know that Judas would betray Him?
John_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Of course He did.

So the office of apostleship is not necessarily a badge of complete honor is it? Now if an apostleship can be replaced by gambling then, then why not now? We should have apostles today should we not? Where is the rule that only twelve can be apostles? Who set that rule? Where does it say that Matthias should replace Judas and not Saul/Paul? Did not Jesus tell the people to wait for the Holy Ghost to teach them the truth? They certainly did no such thing. Did Jesus set a rule book of qualifications of an apostle? Nope. Who did?

Matthias was never heard of in the NT since his election and fell out of prominence while Saul/Paul became the champion of the Gentiles. Now if Jesus was truly as He is said to be then His church would not have credited Saul/Paul as being a apostle if he was not as he claimed. So who is the legitimate number twelve? Is it Paul or is it Matthias?

You say --
Quote He blasphemes by self appointing him self an apostle. No apostle ever refers to or calls Paul an apostle. Unquote

Wrong again. It seems that the Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Corinthians was written by none other than Achaicus and Timotheus (Timothy).

1Corinthians_9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
1Corinthians_15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Bet you didn't know that did you? Bet you thought Paul wrote that but he did not pen that work. Even though most people assume Paul wrote that himself it was authored by Timothy and Achaicus from Philippi.

And there is more if you care to read them.

Now what is an apostle? To make it simple to you, an apostle is one that is sent out as to represent another. Many people down through history have had apostles. Can a person say I am an apostle without a certificate? Certainly anyone can do the same as long as that one is sent out to represent the one who sends him/her out. A disciple is a follower and not necessarily an apostle or one who is sent out to represent the boss (so to speak). So an apostle is first a disciple but a disciple is not necessarily an apostle. Matthias was chosen by man while Saul/Paul was chosen by God but both were apostles.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Parazurvan

I don't recall you asking me that and have had this conversation to death. I have plenty of good reasons and if you want to know some I gave you 3 references so if you have a specific question you should ask and don't expect me to summarize a subject that has too many reasons to list them all. But I will tell you one. There are and can only be 12 Apostles. Jesus set it that way and when Matthias was selected that was 12. The Spirit was a part of the process and standards are set regarding who is eligible first. Matthias filled the final spot and Paul meets none of the qualifications. He blasphemes by self appointing him self an apostle. No apostle ever refers to or calls Paul an apostle. He didn't have an encounter in the wilderness with Jesus and I have told you this already and that Jesus prophecies Paul as a false apostle in Matthew 24:23 exactly. Now you have some of and enough of my reasons.

Now that is much better than a bunch of no sources tying to express your own mind. I am not about to read lengthy rants of other people or videos of the same. You have a keyboard and a brain and in a forum you are expected to use them. I asked for only one at time so will discuss Saul/Paul being an Apostle of Jesus the Christ.

As Judas was an apostle of Jesus and last saw the Lord in the garden at His arrest, He then killed himself as is reported. The election of another to replace Judas is not recorded as approved by Jesus. Neither before or after His crucifixion. Why should I believe this? Because in the gospel of Thomas Jesus told His disciples before His death that his brother Jacob was to be the foundation of the synagogue. If Jesus had wanted Judas replaced He would have named the replacement. Instead the eleven drew lots and the lot fell upon Matthias.

Did Jesus know that Judas would betray Him?
John_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? Of course He did.

So the office of apostleship is not necessarily a badge of complete honor is it? Now if an apostleship can be replaced by gambling then, then why not now? We should have apostles today should we not? Where is the rule that only twelve can be apostles? Who set that rule? Where does it say that Matthias should replace Judas and not Saul/Paul? Did not Jesus tell the people to wait for the Holy Ghost to teach them the truth? They certainly did no such thing. Did Jesus set a rule book of qualifications of an apostle? Nope. Who did?

Matthias was never heard of in the NT since his election and fell out of prominence while Saul/Paul became the champion of the Gentiles. Now if Jesus was truly as He is said to be then His church would not have credited Saul/Paul as being a apostle if he was not as he claimed. So who is the legitimate number twelve? Is it Paul or is it Matthias?

You say --
Quote He blasphemes by self appointing him self an apostle. No apostle ever refers to or calls Paul an apostle. Unquote

Wrong again. It seems that the Pseudepigraphal Cepher to the Corinthians was written by none other than Achaicus and Timotheus (Timothy).

1Corinthians_9:2 If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord.
1Corinthians_15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Bet you didn't know that did you? Bet you thought Paul wrote that but he did not pen that work. Even though most people assume Paul wrote that himself it was authored by Timothy and Achaicus from Philippi.

And there is more if you care to read them.

Now what is an apostle? To make it simple to you, an apostle is one that is sent out as to represent another. Many people down through history have had apostles. Can a person say I am an apostle without a certificate? Certainly anyone can do the same as long as that one is sent out to represent the one who sends him/her out. A disciple is a follower and not necessarily an apostle or one who is sent out to represent the boss (so to speak). So an apostle is first a disciple but a disciple is not necessarily an apostle. Matthias was chosen by man while Saul/Paul was chosen by God but both were apostles.

Don't ask questions if you don't want answers.

The Holy Spirit chose Matthias. Nothing in scripture says Matthias was illegitimate so you are inventing non existent situations.

Both can't be Apostles because 12 is the maximum. New Jerusalem in the book of Revelation confirms that only 12 Apostles exist.

Paul is out, sorry but he is a false prophet.

a reply to: Parazurvan

Not too mention its never mentioned in the bible. Nobody ever stated there would be three distinct gospels. Jesus never mentioned the gospel of Grace or the everlasting gospel.

a reply to: Parazurvan

And if you say that about Matthias the same thing applies to Paul. Jesus gave no warning or instruction regarding a 13th apostle but he did predict Paul as a false prophet in Matthew 24:23.

The Apostles had all authority to replace Judas and consulted through the Holy Spirit through prayer and casting lots. You might not know but that was the way they chose through the Holy Spirit just like James did at the Jerusalem council. Casting lots is unique to the Matthias situation but in both instances the Spirit is consulted.

You are incorrect that Matthias was not chosen by heaven. That is equal to saying the blessed Apostles weren't capable of carrying out Jesus' plan after 3 years of instruction from the Messiah.

Or that God and Jesus are incompetent.

Yet Paul's bizarre claims don't bother you.

Typical Christian hypocrisy.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Indeed. The Kingdom of God is the only Kingdom and Jesus and the real 12 Apostles are all I consider as Paul is the prototypical wolf in sheep's clothing.

His purpose is to determine the true followers of Christ by sending a false prophet as. Most will just accept him.

To the few who figure it out it is so obvious.

a reply to: Parazurvan

Paul chose himself. After a supposed vision of Jesus. Then preached a completely different message than Jesus did. The problem hardcore believers have is that if you realize Paul was an imposter yet wrote many books of the bible it all goes downhill from there. Not too mention they lose their saved by Jesus dying garbage.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Parazurvan

Paul chose himself. After a supposed vision of Jesus. Then preached a completely different message than Jesus did. The problem hardcore believers have is that if you realize Paul was an imposter yet wrote many books of the bible it all goes downhill from there. Not too mention they lose their saved by Jesus dying garbage.

And they don't even think it is possible to follow Christ without believing Paul's chronically inconsistent encounter in the desert and angry epistles about how everyone hated him.

"This you know, all those who are in Asia have turned from me."

Paul.

Asia is a big place even in the mid east sense only. All 7 churches in Revelation are in Asia so that is a lot of people who rejected his false gospel.

If he was only preaching what Jeus taught why would Asia reject him?

Because he was preaching his admittedly different gospel that came straight from Jesus and not from men, so he claims.

So different gospels and his jealousy of the apostles makes him claim his gospel is true and not the Apostles who actually met Jesus.

He calls Peter and Barnabas hypocrites and claims to have rebuked Peter. He calls the Apostles "Apostles of men" meaning that he is greater than them.

He basically declares he has nothing to do with Jerusalem and goes his own way.

a reply to: Parazurvan

The Holy Spirit chose Matthias. Nothing in scripture says Matthias was illegitimate so you are inventing non existent situations. Both can't be Apostles because 12 is the maximum. New Jerusalem in the book of Revelation confirms that only 12 Apostles exist. Paul is out, sorry but he is a false prophet.

And you are still confused. I did not say that Matthias was not an apostle. What I said was - Quote "Matthias was chosen by man while Saul/Paul was chosen by God but both were apostles." Unquote. Your ability to comprehend what you read is very much in doubt. There were many things that were done by the apostles that were not of God's perfect will but were done by His permissive will. That is the lesson you have never learned and the lesson that Chester John had tried to teach you. Simply because an apostle did a certain thing does not mean that the action of that apostle was correct.

Judas was an apostle of Jesus but was a devil. How do you explain that? As was told to you before, the office of an apostle does not make one perfect or holy. It is simply that one is given authority to represent the one who gave the authority to represent.

John_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Now if the Holy Spirit chose Judas then would you say the Holy Spirit was wrong? No the Holy Spirit did not choose Judas to represent God. Jesus chose Judas for the purpose that Judas had shown. But the office of an apostle did not mean that Judas was in the will of God. All humans must face a judgment and that includes an apostle and a disciple. There is no such thing as a free ride. Being an Apostle was not an answer to a great reward. The answer to a great reward was in how one overcomes trial and tribulation. The greatest gift of all is to give your life for another person.

Chester John has said it correctly. One must have the wisdom to divide the words of truth. Matthias was chosen by man by lots. Saul/Paul was chosen by the Celestial Word of God and not by man. This is what Paul is trying to explain. One is Flesh and the other Spirit. Now back to Judas. Explain just how could the Son of God be so wrong in choosing Judas as His apostle and man be so right in choosing Mathias. Was there one Holy Spirit for Judas and another Holy Spirit for Mathias?

a reply to: Parazurvan

seek and ye shall find you find not because you seek not.

There are hundreds I find it strange you have not found even one.