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If reincarnation is not true, then Elijah did not return before the Christ as prophesized

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posted on May, 20 2016 @ 09:57 PM
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The desciples asked Jesus, "Why is it written that Elijah must return first?" and Jesus explained that John the Baptist is the return of Elijah so the prophecy about Elijah and then the Christ coming was fulfilled....

But if reincarnation is false and John is not Elijah as Jesus said, then the prophecy that Elijah must come first was not fulfilled.

How do you explain this?




posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: arpgme Isnt he the one that was taken away in a chariot of fire. He never died



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:30 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem

In Luke 1:5-25 it shows that Elijah was born at a different time period than John. He was born a little before Jesus in order to bear witness to the Light of The Word made flesh (Jesus).

So Elijah did not just fly down from Heaven as John in a physical body. John was born from Elizabeth.

And Jesus said that John is Elijah so reincarnation must be true from the "Elijah bearing witness to the Messiah" prophecy to be fulfilled.
edit on 20-5-2016 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:39 PM
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Unless Elijah is one of the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:43 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem




Isnt he the one that was taken away in a chariot of fire. He never died


Fire doesn't burn up human bodies? And, a human body can survive the trip to the heavens without oxygen?

I think the legend is meant to illustrate that Elijah didn't "taste" death, and that his body was transformed through a fiery baptism.

Christianity is based on the fact that John the Baptist "was" Elijah. You can't have Jesus Christ without the reincarnation of Elijah.


edit on 20-5-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

They asked Jesus about Elijah because if Elijah were there, then that is evidence that Jesus IS the messiah.


Besides, Jesus already says himself that Elijah has already come as John, and we know that John was born a little before Jesus to Elizabeth to bear witness to Jesus (fulfillnent of the Elijah bearing witness to the Christ prophecy).

This all points to reincarnation.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:55 PM
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God sent him to the future in order for God himself to be transferred into Jesus. I'm not sure why God couldn't figure a way out if this problem.

What windward says at the last line is true.
edit on 20-5-2016 by luciferslight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:58 PM
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Its been awhile since i read it, but there was a story. It may have been the transfiguration. Who were the others that appeared. Remember, the disciple said something like " This is wonderful, shall I build a shelter for us all? Was it Abraham and Elijah? I just cant remember



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: luciferslight


Yea, he got reincarnated in the future born as a child to Zechariah and Elizabeth in order to bear witness to Jesus.
edit on 20-5-2016 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:03 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: visitedbythem




Isnt he the one that was taken away in a chariot of fire. He never died


Fire doesn't burn up human bodies? And, a human body can survive the trip to the heavens without oxygen?

I think the legend is meant to illustrate that Elijah didn't "taste" death, and that his body was transformed through a fiery baptism.

Christianity is based on the fact that John the Baptist "was" Elijah. You can't have Jesus Christ without the reincarnation of Elijah.

In the begining was the Word. And the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and tented among us. The Word Is Yeshua AKA Jesus. Christianity is based on Christ



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:07 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Unless Elijah is one of the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation.
This is also what I have always thought as well



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: visitedbythem




The Word Is Yeshua AKA Jesus. Christianity is based on Christ


It's based on Jesus of Nazareth being the prophesied Messiah. You can't have Jesus Christ without Elijah, AKA, John the Baptist.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:36 PM
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a reply to: arpgme

God can reincarnate whomever he wants. It just so happens that he sent Elijah in the form of John the Baptist.



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: arpgme
How would I explain this? By one of the prophesies the disciples are referring to.

Malach 4.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The prophesy says that there would be a curse if Elijah didn't fulfill his mission. But in Matthew we're told that he was John the Baptist and he was killed by Herod. Which must have triggered the curse. So I looked for it and found the curse.

Hosea 6.
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2nd Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

When read in context with the rest of Hosea the curse is perfectly clear. A two thousand year curse. Followed by a thousand year "day of Jezreel".

Salome and her mother really screwed the pooch with the death of John the Baptist. And if you saw the movie Little Nicky then it's obvious that they both have been getting a pineapple since the First Century AD.
edit on 21-5-2016 by ntech because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 12:47 AM
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And if ye will receive it, this IS Elias, which was for to come.




posted on May, 21 2016 @ 02:05 AM
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a reply to: arpgme

Reincarnation was widely believed in as you can see but it posed a problem for religious punishment. Its not the same to tell someone you will reincarnate as a frog if you don't do what I tell you.

However thou will be damned for eternity to burn in hell works better on feeble minds - hence no more reincarnation, only the somewhat strange promise of life in heaven playing the lyre all day long and singing praises around a giant throne or being burned to a cinder.

Its just religious blackmail. And if you doubt it, why are so many religious people not bothered about their paedophelia, and other actions quite against the 10 commandments or being a decent person - they know they will reincarnate and will give it hell if they don;t get to be a top dog again.



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 07:13 AM
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a reply to: arpgme
Christians don't always agree on this one, either. There are a few schools of thought. One is that the prophecy of Elijah's return was not literal, but that John the Baptist would be like Elijah. Hence Luke 1...

17 He will also go before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, ‘to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,’ and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

"spirit and power" being the same Spirit that worked through Elijah, would also work through John. Of course, there was evidently some resemblance in the clothing the two men wore as well. Then you have this in John 1...

21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.”

The question here is, what did John know, and when did he know it? We know he didn't lie, because it would have been out of his character to do so. Was he playing a game of semantics, or was he literally unaware of his role in prophecy? It's also obvious that everyone but possibly Jesus was interpreting the prophecy literally.

My personal opinion is that the prophecy is not a literal prediction of the return of Elijah, but rather that John would be very reminiscent of Elijah, and have the same Spirit of God working through him. Although the reincarnation angle is more fun. lol.



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: Klassified

I guess it boils down to "Who are going to believe, Luke's 2nd or 3rd hand narrative, or the supposed actual quoted words of Jesus of Nazareth?"


Matthew 11:14
And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

You can't reincarnate someone who never died as we understand it. Whatever God has been doing or not doing with Elijah, it isn't exactly the same thing as what we think of as reincarnation.

In other words, we're getting into prophecy again where things are as much symbolic as literal. There will be a prophet who is as Elijah, meaning as righteous as Elijah, to herald the coming of the Messiah. It may not mean that Elijah himself comes only one who is like him, and the same may apply to the two witnesses. They may not be Elijah and Enoch, only two who are like them.

Prophets describe what they see by means of using what is familiar to them, and Elijah is very familiar to them as one of the holiest of God's prophets.
edit on 21-5-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 08:06 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko



You can't reincarnate someone who never died as we understand it.


You don't understand reincarnation, nor do you understand the concept of eternal life. Bodies are vehicles that are manifested, from time to time, out of some sort of expressive need.

Flesh doesn't survive fire, and there is no need for flesh in Heaven, or whatever unearthly place that Elijah was allegedly taken.

At any rate, the spirit goes where it wants to go.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.



Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going.



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