Charlotte Observer: Girls must overcome ‘discomfort’ of seeing ‘male genitalia’ in locker ro

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: luthier
This is hilarious to me.. The manufactured outrage.

The social conservatives are blowing this way out of proportion.

As a libertarian conservative I have absolute support in individual liberty.

Individual liberty does not include what you are embarrassed about in public. If nudity is offensive don't change in locker rooms. The YMCA has had unisex changing rooms for a long time. It's not some secret plot to change society. It's the fact that nonreligious people don't find nudity offisive or perverted the same way many religious people do.

The other large issue here is trans people don't look like there birth sex. A trans female in a men's room is a lot more eyebrow raising then if they use the ladies room where obviously nobody will be checking out private parts.

Changing rooms: I have coached highschool wrestling for ten years. I can't say any of the kids use the showers. The school I teach at now doesn't even have them.

If you don't want to say strangers nude don't go to public showers. If you can't avoid it you chances of seeing a trans person waving their jumk around are about zero. A trans female just isn't going to be showing off their male parts if they still have them. It doesn t work that way.

The last thing I will say is my wife has worked in universities and hospitals for almost 20 years. The trans issues and accommodations are nothing new.

Basically we are just allowing human beings to be who they are but the religious right has fabricated an arguement out of this.

Europeans probably think we are nuts. They have had unisex bathrooms for ever. Strange thing is it never increased rape. Nobody freaked out.


This whole situation reminds me.of a dr I just read who said you should never kiss a baby on the lips because it's sexual. I think the real pervert was the one who is uncomfortable with kissing babies and thinks it's sexual (the Dr)

I think the imaginations of sexually repressive thinking has gotten a little overboard.

For you talking about the population size think about your arguement. Laws are often made to protect minorities. Otherwise you end up with two drinking fountains. The whites can outvote the black.. You know that kind of thing.

Let's move on folks. Stop trying to peep on people in public restrooms and if you are one of the last people using public changing rooms and showers in amercia (because yes we are body prudes) don't look.

There are still laws in place that if a dude is walking around your favorite public shower or restroom with his junk out doing something besides showering he is going to get in trouble. Trans people aren't going to be showing off their birth sex organs. Anybody get that?

You have coached high school wrestling for 10 years? Then you must understand the problems associated with MINORS and this issue. We are not talking about adults. How do you propose to square exposure laws that are in place to protect minors? You as a coach are entrusted with the safety of the students you coach. What we are told to get over is a crime. You dealing with children understand they all do not develop at the same time. Why should my child be forced to deal with issues they may not be ready for? We are not talking about health class and discussions of birds and bees we are talking about real life exposure that cannot be undone.
I am very interested to read your response as you are in the education system and deal with minors.

First off your a little behind. The laws already exist and a whole precedence has been set by court cases already regarding this issue. If you know how the US legal system works you understand what this means. The discrimination suits using title 9 are pretty easy to find.

Second like I said in the ten years I have coached I have never seen kids use the showers. The ones at the crappy school I teach wrestling havent worked for over five years.

Trans children don't want to advertise they are not their gender identity. They are moving towards becoming the opposite sex. That includes not waving your wand around in the girls room. If someone does they get arrested. You can't simlpy just say you feel like a woman today.

What your talking about includes same sex. If you study psychology for real you would know young women with self esteem issues are also torchered by their own sex during the carried levels of development between children. So maybe having private changing areas for people offended by anything is a simple solution.

Being offended by nudity is more a disorder than a trait to be nurtured. There is a strong link between sexual repression and violence and rape. If you look at a plethora of animal and human studies. Nudity and sexual repression go hand in hand. People so afraid of sexuality make up complete fantasy erotic situations out of things that are not sexual.

Like dudes dressing up like Ms doubtfire so they can rape women in bathrooms.

Sounds like a repressed fantasy to me.

§ 14-190.9. Indecent exposure.
(a) Unless the conduct is punishable under subsection (a1) of this section, any person who shall willfully expose the private parts of his or her person in any public place and in the presence of any other person or persons, except for those places designated for a public purpose where the same sex exposure is incidental to a permitted activity, or aids or abets in any such act, or who procures another to perform such act; or any person, who as owner, manager, lessee, director, promoter or agent, or in any other capacity knowingly hires, leases or permits the land, building, or premises of which he is owner, lessee or tenant, or over which he has control, to be used for purposes of any such act, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
(a1) Unless the conduct is prohibited by another law providing greater punishment, any person at least 18 years of age who shall willfully expose the private parts of his or her person in any public place in the presence of any other person less than 16 years of age for the purpose of arousing or gratifying sexual desire shall be guilty of a Class H felony. An offense committed under this subsection shall not be considered to be a lesser included offense under G.S. 14-202.1.
(a2) Unless the conduct is prohibited by another law providing greater punishment, any person who shall willfully expose the private parts of his or her person in the presence of anyone other than a consenting adult on the private premises of another or so near thereto as to be seen from such private premises for the purpose of arousing or gratifying sexual desire is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
(a4) Unless the conduct is punishable by another law providing greater punishment, any person at least 18 years of age who shall willfully expose the private parts of his or her person in a private residence of which they are not a resident and in the presence of any other person less than 16 years of age who is a resident of that private residence shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

So all a pervert has to do is say he's transgender, and he can go hang out in the girls locker room?

a5) Unless the conduct is prohibited by another law providing greater punishment, any person located in a private place who shall willfully expose the private parts of his or her person with the knowing intent to be seen by a person in a public place shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.
(b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a woman may breast feed in any public or private location where she is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breast feeding.
(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a local government may regulate the location and operation of sexually oriented businesses. Such local regulation may restrict or prohibit nude, seminude, or topless dancing to the extent consistent with the constitutional protection afforded free speech. (1971, c. 591, s. 1; 1993, c. 301, s. 1; c. 539, s. 124; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1998-46, s. 3; 2005-226, s. 1; 2015-250, ss. 2, 2.1, 2.3.)

That is the law in north carolina

originally posted by: korath
So all a pervert has to do is say he's transgender, and he can go hang out in the girls locker room?

Yes, that's the irrational, ridiculous mantra the right-wing echo chamber is providing.

Incessantly.

So in my opinion there are going to be alot of legal problems if this issue is pushed without changing the laws on the books.

Coaches are there to protect kids from situations like this. How you feel what you think does not relieve you of the responsibility to protect the kids you coach.

The fact that you think this just may be a repressed fantasy is troubling.

a reply to: sycomix

Well it ain't 99 percent of the civilized world or else it wouldn't be an issue. There are a lot of people who believe in the enlightenment era philosophies of liberty. That includes accepting these people exsist in society at whatever number.

It's the same thing that allows you as an Irish in an Italian neighborhood to not be discriminated against just because your community is Italian. Certain basic human rights are given in the US. At least half the public feels this way in the US.

a reply to: shooterbrody

The fact that you make these opinions with zero scientific understanding, neurology, child development or current events is disturbing.

Like I said. It's already been this way for quite a while. I have a 14 year old boy as well and two pre school daughters.

I am supposed to protect kids from what? I coach wrestling. I teach kids how to battle through bad situations, give them self esteem, and teach confidence and antibullying techniques. And yeah I went to bat for a transgender male who wanted to compete in the male division. USA wrestling and the Olympics have already dealt with this issues years ago.

Basically superstious religious people are making up situations that are rediculous. Your just as likely to get raped by a united States senator as anyone from allowing trans kids to use bathrooms.

I said that wrong because your probably much more likely to be raped by a politician than anyrhing that could occur from ths.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

The fact that you make these opinions with zero scientific understanding, neurology, child development or current events is disturbing.

Like I said. It's already been this way for quite a while. I have a 14 year old boy as well and two pre school daughters.

I am supposed to protect kids from what? I coach wrestling. I teach kids how to battle through bad situations, give them self esteem, and teach confidence and antibullying techniques. And yeah I went to bat for a transgender male who wanted to compete in the male division. USA wrestling and the Olympics have already dealt with this issues years ago.

Basically superstious religious people are making up situations that are rediculous. Your just as likely to get raped by a united States senator as anyone from allowing trans kids to use bathrooms.

I didnt make up anything. I posted the current law in north carolina. Not my opinion the law. I fail to see how scientific understanding, neurology, child development, or current events change the law.

You ask what you are supposed to protect kids from then later in the paragraph speak about how you teach kids anti bullying techniques. Seems you just want to pick and choose what you protect kids from. It is great you went to bat for a transgender kid. I am all for all children being in a safe environment to grow up in. But none of that changes what the current law is in the state of north carolina. Those laws were written to protect MINOR children from a situation that we are now told to get over. That is superstitious.

a reply to: luthier

The only important things here, for some, are to continue to connect the sexual abuse idea to the idea that trans* kids being able to use appropriate facilities is dangerous.

And of course, to imply that anyone who defends these rights has questionable morals.

These tactics have been used for decades against gays, lesbians, etc.

a reply to: awareness10


FIRST...How the hell do you create an OP about an article, but NOT include a link to the article????

That is not a pro-liberal or conservative question...it is a simple DENY IGNORANCE question..

When OPs rail on about an article that they apparently haven't even read, nor feel the need to provide a link to..that is utter spin BS.

Charlotte Observer: Girls must overcome ‘discomfort’ of seeing ‘male genitalia’ in locker rooms

The ACTUAL article NEVER SAID THIS.

The BS spin article you chose in place the ACTUAL article inserts "SEE" for "SHARE"..two different things..

As well as this..

The administration’s letter addresses that uneasiness head on, at least with regards to schools.

The letter includes a 25-page attachment detailing “emerging practices” at U.S. districts that already are supporting transgender students.

Along with policies on issues such as dress codes and transgender student records, the document provides examples of how districts address the privacy needs of all students in bathrooms and locker rooms.

In Washington state, guidelines urge schools to provide all students access to an alternative restroom or changing area.

In New York, one principal determined that students could be given more privacy by having curtains installed alongside benches in locker rooms.

In Kentucky, one district offered both curtains and private changing areas, plus separate changing schedules for students wanting privacy.

The measures follow a simple premise: Offer those who are uncomfortable a chance to be comfortable, but give choice to everyone instead of taking it away from some.

LINK TO ACTUAL ARTICLE


so..."Yes, the thought of male genitalia in girls’ locker rooms – and vice versa – might be distressing to some."

Was in the context of Separate changing times for those needing privacy, Curtains, Rooms within the locker room for private changing etc.

And that context was denied for the sake of BS...both in the article you cited and the OP via not providing a source for the article that the OP was literally premised on.

BS reaches new levels when you don't even afford readers the chance to read the actual article you are talking about.

a reply to: shooterbrody

There's several laws on the books in NC that probably won't see Christmas.

Just sayin'.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: shooterbrody

There's several laws on the books in NC that probably won't see Christmas.

Just sayin'.

That doesnt change the fact that it is the law.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Yup superstitious because trans kids have been protected under legal precedence from title 9 for years. The Olympics, junior Olympics etc already have dealt with this. Colleges already have diversity officers etc. The only thing your law is, would be a distraction. It will soon be shut down by the federal court and you'll loose funding for schools over your superstions.

Like I said in 10 years I have never once seen any nudity issues pop up and kids have never used the showers. So... Again your fabricating a problem that doesn't exist.

There is also a difference between nudity and sexual exposure. Something I guess some religious folks can't tell the difference of. Perhaps because everything arouses them?

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: shooterbrody

There's several laws on the books in NC that probably won't see Christmas.

Just sayin'.

That doesnt change the fact that it is the law.

Right, for now.

Doesn't change the fact that you're taking the laws completely out of context and trying to twist what is stated to your own little agenda.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

Yup superstitious because trans kids have been protected under legal precedence from title 9 for years. The Olympics, junior Olympics etc already have dealt with this. Colleges already have diversity officers etc. The only thing your law is, would be a distraction. It will soon be shut down by the federal court and you'll loose funding for schools over your superstions.

Like I said in 10 years I have never once seen any nudity issues pop up and kids have never used the showers. So... Again your fabricating a problem that doesn't exist.

There is also a difference between nudity and sexual exposure. Something I guess some religious folks can't tell the difference of. Perhaps because everything arouses them?

Take the time to read the law. Nudity between same sex kids in a school is not an issue, nudity between opposite sex kids is a crime. Anyone who aids or abets this would also be charged.
I in no way tried to make this about anyone other than MINORS.
I applaud your efforts as a coach. I applaud your efforts to help trans kids. That has nothing to do with the way the law in the state of north carolina is written.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yep. Yet we are supposed to all follow someone's personal superstions. I have my own too. The difference is I don't think society needs to bend down to my beliefs. They just have to accept I can have them. If nudity offends you don't go to places people may be nude. It's simple. Have a private changing area for modest people who may be getting picked on from their own sex as well.

There is absolutely no issue here accept discriminating against people.

I think allowing a better waiver system so your taxes can be used towards private schools is a good idea. If you are religious go to a school with your values. But public schools should be for the public. Whether or not you like it gays and trans people exist and the ghandi moment is here. True colors are being shown.

a reply to: shooterbrody

First off it doesn't matter I can take it to federal court where it's already protected and has a precedence. This law will only be in place until the trial. Issues around discrimination are not state issues as also set by precedence in the constitutional amendments and court cases.

I live in SC. Where our conservative gov and city shariff has said it isn't an issue and has zero complaints of any bathroom or school problems. We will happily accept the stream of bussinesses pouring in from Charlotte.

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

Yup superstitious because trans kids have been protected under legal precedence from title 9 for years. The Olympics, junior Olympics etc already have dealt with this. Colleges already have diversity officers etc. The only thing your law is, would be a distraction. It will soon be shut down by the federal court and you'll loose funding for schools over your superstions.

Like I said in 10 years I have never once seen any nudity issues pop up and kids have never used the showers. So... Again your fabricating a problem that doesn't exist.

There is also a difference between nudity and sexual exposure. Something I guess some religious folks can't tell the difference of. Perhaps because everything arouses them?

Take the time to read the law. Nudity between same sex kids in a school is not an issue, nudity between opposite sex kids is a crime. Anyone who aids or abets this would also be charged.
I in no way tried to make this about anyone other than MINORS.

You think schools are going to let a trans minor use the restroom they identify with, without medical documentation?

A trans minor is NOT going to expose the part of them that make them different. They would be horrified.

If anyone is at risk, it is the transgender child - - - from obnoxious bullies trying to "get a peak".

That is the child that needs to be protected.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

First off it doesn't matter I can take it to federal court where it's already protected and has a precedence. This law will only be in place until the trial. Issues around discrimination are not state issues as also set by precedence in the constitutional amendments and court cases.

I live in SC. Where our conservative gov and city shariff has said it isn't an issue and has zero complaints of any bathroom or school problems. We will happily accept the stream of bussinesses pouring in from Charlotte.

Please be kind enough to link the precedent setting case with respect to minors and changing with the opposite sex.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: shooterbrody

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: shooterbrody

Yup superstitious because trans kids have been protected under legal precedence from title 9 for years. The Olympics, junior Olympics etc already have dealt with this. Colleges already have diversity officers etc. The only thing your law is, would be a distraction. It will soon be shut down by the federal court and you'll loose funding for schools over your superstions.

Like I said in 10 years I have never once seen any nudity issues pop up and kids have never used the showers. So... Again your fabricating a problem that doesn't exist.

There is also a difference between nudity and sexual exposure. Something I guess some religious folks can't tell the difference of. Perhaps because everything arouses them?

Take the time to read the law. Nudity between same sex kids in a school is not an issue, nudity between opposite sex kids is a crime. Anyone who aids or abets this would also be charged.
I in no way tried to make this about anyone other than MINORS.

You think schools are going to let a trans minor use the restroom they identify with, without medical documentation?

A trans minor is NOT going to expose the part of them that make them different. They would be horrified.

If anyone is at risk, it is the transgender child - - - from obnoxious bullies trying to "get a peak".

That is the child that needs to be protected.

I think both the kids deserve to be protected.