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How does one balance Islamophobia and homophobia?

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posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Being anti-discrimination doesn't make a person "pro-Muslim". For example, I am against what fundamental Christianity teaches (same things as fundie Islam) but, if we stated that we would no longer accept Christian refugees, I would be against it and label it "Christophobia".

I am absolutely against religious fundamentalism, in nearly every form, as it endangers my unconventional family. But I will not stand by as one fundamental group unfairly discriminates against members of another fundamental group.

I don't think Islamophobes and homophobes truly understand the difference between not agreeing with something vs acting on that disagreement in a discriminating fashion.




posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:37 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

True, and had the article been "5 states in the U.S. where gay is legal" I would have thought your post was relevant.

I just don't think they are comparable. Or relevant.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:40 PM
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originally posted by: Slanter
The issue with gays in islam isn't even a religious one.


Please see the quotes from the Quran below. What you wrote above is completely wrong.

Here are the 10 countries where homosexuality may be punished by death

All ten of those countries are part of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation. Do you think the Quran is the basis for those laws?

Being pro-Islam requires being anti-gay rights and yet the politically correct expect people to be pro-Islam and pro-gay rights simultaneously?


Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" - An account that is borrowed from the Biblical story of Sodom. Muslim scholars through the centuries have interpreted the "rain of stones" on the town as meaning that homosexuals should be stoned, since no other reason is given for the people's destruction. (The story is also repeated in suras 27 and29).

Quran (7:81) - "Will ye commit abomination such as no creature ever did before you?" This verse is part of the previous text and it establishes that homosexuality as different from (and much worse than) adultery or other sexual sin. According to the Arabic grammar, homosexuality is called the worst sin, while references elsewhere describe other forms of non-marital sex as being "among great sins."

Quran (26:165-166) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone" This is the Yusuf Ali translation. The original Arabic does not use the word "men" and simply says "two from among you." Yusuf Ali may have added the word "men" because the verse seems to refer to a different set than referred to in the prior verse (explicitly denoted as "your women"). In other words, since 4:15 refers to "your women", 4:16 is presumably written to and refers to men.

Interestingly, the same rules don't seem to apply in paradise, where martyrs for the cause of Allah enjoy an orgy of virgins and "perpetual youth" Quran (56:17) (otherwise known as "boys" Quran (52:24)). Quran (76:19) bluntly states, "And immortal boys will circulate among them, when you see them you will count them as scattered pearls." Technically, the mere presence of boys doesn't necessarily mean sex, however it is strongly implied from the particular emphasis on the effeminacy, handsomeness and "freshness" of the boys. The female virgins of paradise are also compared to pearls (56:23).

What Does Islam Teach About...Homosexuality



originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Profusion

Being anti-discrimination doesn't make a person "pro-Muslim".


What definition of "Islamophobia" are you going by? The following is the official definition:


The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims."
Defining "Islamophobia"


Going by that definition, gay people should absolutely be afraid of most Muslims and therefore "Islamophobic."
edit on 19-5-2016 by Profusion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:43 PM
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-phobia is an irrational fear of something, it is not based in reality.

If a person is homophobic(fear of sameness) or islamophobic, that would be a psychological disorder.

Overcoming a phobia, usually requires therapy. I don't think people who use these terms to describe most people are using the term properly, and thus disparaging the people who actually have the -phobia.
edit on 19-5-2016 by GodEmperor because: edit



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:44 PM
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originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Gryphon66

True, and had the article been "5 states in the U.S. where gay is legal" I would have thought your post was relevant.

I just don't think they are comparable. Or relevant.


Thanks for your input.

I disagree with you.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:45 PM
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a reply to: Profusion




How does one balance Islamophobia and homophobia?


You don't. Throw them both in the pile with the rest of them, or become an apologist for both.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Indonesia in a muslim country, and boy do they give LGBT groups a hard time over here. In Aech province where sharia law is in full swing, they have fully enacted a strict Islamic criminal code, criminalising drinking alcohol, adultery, homosexuality, and public displays of affection outside of a legally recognised relationship. ...having a beer is criminal,holding hands with a girl is criminal and so on....



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: GodEmperor
-phobia is an irrational fear of something, it is not based in reality.

If a person is homophobic(fear of sameness) or islamophobic, that would be a psychological disorder.

Overcoming a phobia, usually requires therapy. I don't think people who use these terms to describe most people are using the term properly, and thus disparaging the people who actually have the -phobia.


The term "Islamophobia" did not start with psychologists. And, it is not a psychological condition. Please read below.


The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims."
Defining "Islamophobia"


Who is Runnymede Trust?


Runnymede is the UK's leading independent race equality think tank. We generate intelligence for a multi-ethnic Britain through research, network building, leading debate, and policy engagement.

Runnymede is working to build a Britain in which all citizens and communities feel valued, enjoy equal opportunities, lead fulfilling lives, and share a common sense of belonging.
www.runnymedetrust.org...


The origin of the term "Islamophobia" had nothing to do with psychology or psychologists.


originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Profusion



How does one balance Islamophobia and homophobia?


You don't. Throw them both in the pile with the rest of them, or become an apologist for both.


I agree completely I'm trying to understand the 'thought process' of those on the other side of the issue.


originally posted by: tommo39
a reply to: Profusion

Indonesia in a muslim country, and boy do they give LGBT groups a hard time over here. In Aech province where sharia law is in full swing, they have fully enacted a strict Islamic criminal code, criminalising drinking alcohol, adultery, homosexuality, and public displays of affection outside of a legally recognised relationship. ...having a beer is criminal,holding hands with a girl is criminal and so on....




Homosexuality in Indonesia
At the local level, gay or transgender Muslims can be fined or imprisoned under provincial laws against homosexuality and cross-dressing. Indonesia's northwesternmost province of Aceh for example, has a sharia-based anti-homosexuality law that punishes anyone caught having gay sex with 100 lashes.


Things aren't great for homosexuals in Indonesia as you can see from the article directly above. The act is still illegal in some places within the country. Still you only chose one state out of the 57 member states in The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation to discuss.


The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC; Arabic: منظمة التعاون الإسلامي‎; French: Organisation de la coopération islamique, OCI)[a 1] is an international organization founded in 1969 consisting of 57 member states.
Organisation of Islamic Cooperation


How about the rest?

Here are the 10 countries where homosexuality may be punished by death

All ten of those countries are part of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation.
edit on 19-5-2016 by Profusion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:52 PM
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originally posted by: Profusion
If I were gay, you better believe I would be afraid of Islam.


Is anyone paying attention? Islam is extremely anti-gay rights.

How does one balance Islamophobia and homophobia?

If you're pro-Islam, then you are taking a homophobic stance.



It's not that difficult

Islam is a religion and it does not approve of homosexuality. But then again nor does it's sister faiths of Judaism and Christianity. Predominantly Hindu India also recently outlawed homosexuality. (Like you can legislate an sexual orientation out of existence....)

So to dislike or even hate Islam because of the way they treat gay people, which is the most brutal of all religions, is not Islamophobic. We gay people dislike the religion for a very real and reasonable fact.

And by the same token, not all Muslims are homophobic. Lots are yes, but it is the same as tarring all Christians as homophobes - a stereotypical view, but not a full truth.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

Good to know,

In other words, it's a socially engineered term.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: [post=20747779]Profusion[/pos
Going by that definition, gay people should absolutely be afraid of most Muslims and therefore "Islamophobic."


... and Christians, Jews, etc.

But that is not the same is discriminating against Muslims nor fearing Muslims. Fearing the religion is not the same. Otherwise I would hate all Christians which I clearly do not.

I do despise Islam. I do despise Christianity.
I do not despise Muslims. I do not despise Christians.

Just like a conservative can disagree with homosexuality all he wants but it becomes evil (homophobia) when he levels his spite and legislation towards homosexuals.
edit on 19-5-2016 by Abysha because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:06 PM
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I think the bottom line is you can be 'anti-discrimination' and therefore accept or support both protections of Muslims and protections of Homosexuals. The problem is where it might overlap, where you might end up protecting a Muslim who would go on to persecute a homosexual. If that happens however, one supersedes the other. No Muslim has the right in infringe on the rights of homosexuals or any other group (women as well.) Human rights should always supersede any other protection law.

As pointed out by others, not all Muslims are homophobic. If a Muslim engaged in homophobia it would need to be dealt with no differently than if a homosexual was engaging in Islamaphobia.

The message here overall is the right one. We don't need to be jumping on each other for our differences. It's ironic that the biggest means of control over the common people is division, but its like some openly choose to accept it, or embrace it.

As far as world politics, that's an entirely different issue. When you are speaking about state actors, it's not even in the same ball park. How you treat people on an individual level, is much different than how we act as a nation against other nations. Any protections afforded to Muslims should cease and desist if they choose to persecute homosexuals. Just as it should be for any kind of similar behaviour.

Human protections should always supersede whatever policy that comes before it. For instance, military aid to Israel. If that aid is being used to in an aggressive effort to dislocate and usurp lands or is used in criminal action against Arabs or Arab states, that aid should vanish. The Zionist lobby however isn't going to let that happen.

It's absolutely bizarre how we get told 'these guys have WMDs, we must go to war' one year, and just a few years prior a genocide was happening, right in front of everyone's eyes and not a single thing was done [Darfur].

This picking and choosing military targets, just so a central banks are installed at the end of the campaign is BS, and it makes our countries no more than thuggish military states working for the banks.

What the world needs is an actual constitution for all lands, all countries, all peoples and persons, across all cultures and religions. Very simple. If you break these laws, violate peoples' rights, you lose everything. You lose aid, you lose benefits, you lose advantages, and crimes against humanity will be prosecuted.

And all countries should have to abide by these laws. Including the US and POTUS. Meaning war crimes will actually be punished. Meaning aiding a state like Saudi Arabia makes you an accessory to crimes against humanity.

We are far too old a species to be dealing like monkeys in the jungle, but its not hard to find ourselves acting like we never left. No systematic discrimination, no systematic killing, no genocide, no abuse. Fundamental rights for every person in the world. The right to water should maybe be tacked on at the end as well.
edit on 19-5-2016 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:11 PM
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Islam is a religion and a choice. Homosexuality is not. We can discriminate against whomever we want for their stupid choices. We should not discriminate against people for their nature.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:16 PM
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How you balance the two are call Christian and Jewish homophobes "bigots" and call homophobic Muslims "just part of their culture"



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Islam is a religion and a choice. Homosexuality is not. We can discriminate against whomever we want for their stupid choices. We should not discriminate against people for their nature.


That is it in a nutshell.

Blindly following the fairytale words of a false prophet does does not make one holy or a better person.

Being attracted to the same sex because you can't help it does not make one evil or a worse person.

The simple answer to most of the world's problems can be summed up in a single sentence;

"Live and let live, do so unselfishly and in humility."



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: Profusion

Good to know,

In other words, it's a socially engineered term.


I've found that most of the people who call others "sheeple" are the worst types of sheeple. Many of the threads on this forum are proof of that.


originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: [post=20747779]Profusion[/pos
Going by that definition, gay people should absolutely be afraid of most Muslims and therefore "Islamophobic."


... and Christians, Jews, etc.

But that is not the same is discriminating against Muslims nor fearing Muslims. Fearing the religion is not the same. Otherwise I would hate all Christians which I clearly do not.

I do despise Islam. I do despise Christianity.
I do not despise Muslims. I do not despise Christians.

Just like a conservative can disagree with homosexuality all he wants but it becomes evil (homophobia) when he levels his spite and legislation towards homosexuals.


I will admit that I hate the members of the cult of ISIS and their belief system.

Going by your logic, how could I separate my hate for the belief system of the members of the cult of ISIS from my hate for the members?

I hate their belief system for what it states and I hate them for carrying out their beliefs. I feel the same way about those who 'sell' their daughters as child brides.

You seem to be implying that it's wrong to hate evil people for doing evil things. I don't understand your point of view at all.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:36 PM
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edit on 5/19/2016 by Kali74 because: My brain broke



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: Abysha


I don't think Islamophobes and homophobes truly understand the difference between not agreeing with something vs acting on that disagreement in a discriminating fashion.

They understand. They just don't care.



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: Profusion


by not listening to msm



posted on May, 19 2016 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: Profusion

You don't.

if you're gay, then be gay.
If you're Muslim, be Muslim.

Not everyone can "coexist".

For example, we can't put Westboro Baptist in the Castro District of San Francisco and expect harmony.

So we can't expect Muslims to accept gays, if it's against their religion. It just won't happen.

Might as well make them accept bacon. It's not going to happen.




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