Why do we need religion when we have science?

Dear ATS'ers,

Today I would like to share with you a lecture that I really enjoyed watching.
It's an islamic lecture given by Nouman Ali Khan. In this 20 minute lecture he adresses many interesting topics.
He for instance talks about how the worldview on religion has changed in a short period of time and how the moral compass of this world is constantly shifting.

So this is not a lecture where he only talks about Islam, I for a matter of fact think many Christians would
also enjoy watching this lecture. Although it's an islamic lecture, you can easily replace words like 'Quran' with 'Bible'
if that makes you feel better. We can all learn something from eachother.

I normally do not start threads that are based on video's unless it's really worth it.
The youtube title of this video and by extension of this thread is "Why do we need religion when we have science?"
(the title will make sense when you watch the video)

Here it is:




I know a lot of the comments will be a direct response to the title, that's not a problem but please just spare me your comments on how you don't want to watch a "boring religious video". No one is forcing you to participate in this thread.

Peace

"Why do we need religion when we have science?"

Well, for a start they are different things. We "have" science and we "have" religion.

Science is evidential and demonstrable, whereas religion is based on faith that something undemonstrative (from a cold, hard rationalist position) exists.

People who use science to "disprove" faith/religion are attempting to compare two different things. Better to look at the rationale and the irrational.

Both can co-exist. People who think they cannot have lost connection with humanity.

Your first mistake was citing a Muslim, that won't go over too well with ATS and everything he says will probably be dismissed no matter how much sense he makes.

As for the topic, I believe science and religion are explaining the same thing only they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Religion explains what cannot be seen while science explains what can be seen. They are both part of the same reality though, so the only way to reconcile the two is to take things from both sides and meet them in the middle.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yep, you are right. But between all those that hate muslims uncondionally there are always some people who care to listen. It's for those peope I share stuff like this, for people like you.

It's interesting to me how terrified the Patriarchy is of how the world is evolving out of the mindset of the Middle Ages when all these religions were created to control people and snatch power. The "moral compass" of the world is shifting... in a better direction where blowing yourself up or murdering a doctor based on some ancient philosophical book is no longer seen as an appropriate expression of your personal views.

Living in a time of scepticism ?? I thought that scientist were first and foremost sceptics .Oh wait there is that community that are darn sure we humans create climate and all the changes that come with it .

He mentions the higher power that dominated the past but is not CERN looking for that mysterious higher power in dark matter and in the unseen realm of our reality ?

Looking to better ourselves and seeing our families and loved ones becoming better is the basic foundation of society . Science wants to look at the nuts and bolts of things and wonder how they can manipulate it to someone's advantage ,. usually the highest bidder in $$

He brings philosophy up as a final modern day construct when in fact it is what leads to someone asking the important questions and has been around longer then most religions of today . The why's of good and evil's .

What he seems to be selling I am not buying .My religious questions and paths leads me to love my neighbour while science leads to me or someone else taking the technologies and controlling them and not respecting their privacy .

On one hand he says that past religious studies did nothing to improve us while claiming that the explosion of scientific studies dominates our world at present .The problems of the past pale to the problems the scientific revolution have created .Think about how if you wanted to kill your neighbour in the past you had to look him in the eye .Not today as we can kill from afar with lightning speed .

Like more roads and more cars and more TV's and more gadgets and more more more money is what we need to be engrossed in is somehow a good thing . Try growing a garden with more government and more regulations and more codes and see how that works . Less is best imo

They were memorized by the infrastructure that was built in the west he says .Imaging seeing it crumble and not a thing being done to maintain it .Did the west sell it and we bought it ? Yes but what good is it if it cant be maintained .Where do we draw a line as to scientific discovery ...Too late to the A-Bomb ..what's next ?

While he wants to put the study of the Soul on the back burner he advocated for all the things we are studying at present but if you want to be honest then science is doing little study into the soul ..Why is that ,if its such a powerful tool for for us to all be on board with ?

After 8 Min . I have had enough of him ....not sure what he is selling or who is trying to sell it to but I am not buying it .

To me science is about knowledge and religion is about wisdom.

Both are very, very good things to have. Both can improve your life. Both can work together to make your life even better than one alone.

I watched as much as I could. About 14 minutes. This guy is proof that even the most intelligent and educated among us can be delusional. I applaud his ability to concede the necessity of our sciences in a modern world, but he is delusional if he thinks for a moment the Quran(or the bible) is a moral and ethical guide for humanity. The amount of wisdom in either can be held in a thimble, and the precepts both espouse pre-date them.

a reply to: Klassified

Perhaps you are the one that is delusional? Time will tell my friend.

a reply to: WombRaider69

It gives those in different economic, culture, race, sex, educational status, a hope to live life and feel better that this life isn't the only life. (7uck You Only Live Once motivations) You live in a world of science. The Bible has information, men did not know. It names the constellations, how to become clean (hygiene) how to make food (cakes) how to cook an animal, what shape the earth is, what length, width, and height is and more.

It's not a story book you read and imagine. It's a story book about facts. People who are atheists assume a God is real and looks like an ape, came out of a whale and pooped out Jesus. No. It's not.

It takes one awakened soul to look pass those "stories" and read between the lines. The Bible and Quran have hidden meanings. It's not fictional.

The part "inspired by God, written by men" isn't saying god went those men to write it. Or he become flesh and wrote it. No. It merely means, something, out there, made a group of strong intelligent and spiritual people (men and women) to come together and form an official "Here is a basic guide book about life for our descendants." Without that book, you wouldn't have this iPhone or Android. Everyone would've died by a disease by now. (The book of Leviticus explains basic hygiene)

Please, ignore those Christians who think they are forgiven because they said Jesus a few times and a rainbow popped up on their foreheads. They aren't saved at all. They have ears and eyes but do not hear or see.

Look at how many of them are rich, yet pay to see Joel Oatmeal say some "special words" and leave with "yay I'm saved, by jesus." Nope, you just feel good now because what he said stirred up some positive vibes which was picked up from a guy next to him, which then rubbed a bit off on to that "saved" person. It's temporary feelings. That same "saved" guy is going back to work the next day with an "okay I have to work today but don't want to, but Jesus is watching me so I have to." Attitude. He doesn't fee saved now does he?

Now as for the video you embedded. I have sent watched it but from the summary you gave. I think abolishing the Bible or Quran would mean to remove the soul.

Commandment # what ever says "thou shall not kill or murder"? And "thou shall not steal"?

If material things are replaceable and the soul isn't, did you break a commandment by stealing my candy?
If you killed my optimistic view on life, have you not killed my soul also?

Modern lifestyle here in AMERICA has killed the spiritual and replaced it with the replaceable.
If this continues, then all AMERICAS negativity will come back twice fold. It will make atheists pray and Christians to sin.

Science is the new religion.

Science is a religion.Government is a religion. Religion is a belief in authority. Authority is something we made up to oppress ourselves. Thats just whacked.

I don't get it?

I'm doing science and religion at the same time.
My dog is licking my toes.
I am drinking a cold beer at the end of day of hard work.
I conclude, based on science, that beer is good.
I have faith that dog spelled backwards is god.
It's a win-win view of things.
Praise "Bob!"

Man gave man science, man gave god religion... who got the better deal?

We have zero need for a religion. We don't need a god figure to treat people well, contribute to those less fortunate, not hurt other people. Religion makes zero difference in how we treat people.

a reply to: Joecanada11

What if we do need religion though??? Not because it's true or accurate. But because it compels those who would otherwise treat others in the most brutal ways, to be good instead, if they no longer feared punishment for it???

How many people, who probably have and do really bad things all the time, might at least limit those actions solely based on some Religion they believe in??? Could you imagine such people if that block was taken away too???

The downside of course is that because some people are in fact so awful that even religion doesn't stop them. Then of course you have those who are just completely confused or deranged that actually use religion to justify their horrid behavior.

I wonder how many people of each catagory actually exist??

Scientifically speaking I guess the thing to do would be to graph those numbers out. The lowest number if also relatively distant from the other values and significantly low in all could be eliminated as a possible problem. The highest number would be priority but any grouping of number values would also be important.

So what do you guess the numbers would be??
a) People who need Religion to have morals at all regardless of how well they follow them??
b) People who have Religion and still harm others without empathy??
c) People who twist Religion to justify their harming others out of malice??

If you feel there should be another group post it.

a reply to: luciferslight
I want what your on.
Bible taught people how to cook. LMFAO.

a reply to: mOjOm
Why do people assume that without religion people will forget what criminal laws are and all of a sudden become unable to see jail/capital punishment as a deterant for killing people. Is this really the best justification for why we need religion. Will we lose the empathy we have evolved to have for the last 200k years cos a book was scrapped.

The only good thing to come out of religion is art and war, with the technological advances that have come from it apart from that it has numbed the minds of intelligent people.

originally posted by: WombRaider69
Why do we need religion when we have science?

Why do we need Xtianity when we have Islam?
Why do we have Islam when we have Xtianity?
Why do we have Xtianity when we have Hindu?
And Sikh?
And 'scientism'!?

Most have no concept of what or how science is, and are merely 'believers' who hypocritically and ignorantly promote their strain of 'belief infection' over others!
Just like all religions!
Science is far from the be all of Reality!
And 'religion has been around for 130,000 years!
It must be filling some need.
Your science is merely a newcomer, with fancy attractive toys!
That are replaced regularly.
Updated.
Like the constantly updated theories, that become meaningless crap in ten years!

Sorry, I don't buy your premise that 'science' is any more of a 'Golden Boy' than Buddhism!
Or less.
Ignorant 'believers' always have the 'truth' that others don't!
Schizophrenic ego...

Because the human condition is both rational and irrational.