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Seven things I’m learning about transgender persons: from the mouth of a Baptist pastor

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posted on May, 17 2016 @ 07:44 PM
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I came across this article this morning, and in light of all the very heated threads of late on ATS, I felt these words coming from a Baptist pastor were very pertinent to the discussion. There is a trend to attribute a lot of bias about GLBTQ issues to religious conservatism which is certainly true in many cases. Consequently it is refreshing to hear these words from a pastor in the Baptist church, generally seen as a conservative Christian denomination.

Rather than link to a news site, I felt it was better to get the words straight from the horses mouth.

baptistnews.com...

In line with T&C, I won't quote the entire article, but rather I have given selected points. I encourage people to read the entire article.


I don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn.

How about you? How much do you really know about this subject beyond all the screaming headlines and concerns about who goes to the bathroom where?

The truth is that I don’t know any transgender persons — at least I don’t think I do. But with the help of a pediatrician friend and a geneticist friend, I’m listening and trying to learn. This is hard, though, because understanding the transgender experience seems so far outside what I have ever contemplated before. And the more I learn, the more theological questions I face as well. This is hard, even for a pastor.


A point I often see discussed.


2. What you see is not always what you get. For the vast majority of humanity, the presence of male or female genitalia corresponds to whether a person is male or female. What you see is what you are. But for a small part of humanity (something less than 1 percent), the visible parts and the inner identity do not line up. For example, it is possible to be born with male genitalia but female chromosomes or vice versa. And now brain research has demonstrated that it also is possible to be born with female genitalia, female chromosomes but a male brain. Most of us hit the jackpot upon birth with all three factors lining up like cherries on a slot machine: Our anatomy, chromosomes and brain cells all correspond as either male or female. But some people are born with variations in one or two of these indicators.


An accusation I've seen thrown out many times which the pastor offers his opinion on.


5. Transgender persons are not pedophiles. The typical profile of a pedophile is an adult male who identifies as heterosexual and most likely even is married. There is zero statistical evidence to link transgender persons to pedophilia.



7. Transgender persons are the product of nature much more than nurture. Debate the origins of homosexuality if you’d like and what role nature vs. nurture plays. But for those who are transgender, nature undeniably plays a primary role. According to medical science, chromosomal variances occur within moments of conception, and anatomical development happens within the nine months in the womb. There is no nature vs. nurture argument, except in cases of brain development, which is an emerging field of study.


And this, on judging in a religious capacity.


This last point in particular raises the largest of theological questions. If Christians really believe every person is created in the image of God, how can we damn a baby who comes from the womb with gender dysphoria?


I am encourage by this article. The pastor's mind is not closed, and he is willing to listen to science, his own religion, and make his own informed decision. Is your mind open, or do you just have knee-jerk reaction when you hear the words transgender?


I don’t know much about transgender issues, but I’m trying to learn — in part because I want to understand the way God has made us. For me, this is a theological quest as much as a biological inquiry or a political cause. How about you?



Indeed. Are you willing to learn?
edit on 17-5-2016 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2016 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 17 2016 @ 07:53 PM
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What a wonderful, intellectually strong approach to learning about a misunderstood, highly politicized topic. I applaud this man, and star & flag your post.


+2 more 
posted on May, 17 2016 @ 07:54 PM
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This constant transgender posting is starting to feel like cointel.

Can we give it a little rest? Maybe 25 minutes without the word transgender? Maybe? Please?



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 07:58 PM
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The thing is, this pastors mind is open to unconventional ideas about gender, which is a good thing... but his opinion are still dogmatically based on law (in this case scientific).

To truly understand the issue you have to transcend materialistic laws altogether. From a spiritual perspective there is both masculine and feminine intelligence in the universe. And regardless of sex, we should respect people who feel more affinity with one than another.



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 07:58 PM
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Mrgone

Its one of the current hotly debated talking points and its an important issue to some. I enjoyed the OP and I'm glad it was posted.

You always have the option to scroll on though.




posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:00 PM
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a reply to: cuckooold

Well, I guess this is aimed more toward religious folk, because, if you take "god" out of the argument/equation, it's just people are different and not a *why* or a *we need to try to understand this and fit this with our own belief system*.

For some people, yes.

He's trying to reconcile something that goes against what he has been taught and believes.
edit on 17-5-2016 by Liquesence because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:00 PM
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I came across this article this morning, and in light of all the very heated threads of late on ATS
a reply to: cuckooold


the only reason its a heated issue is because the main stream media made it an issue and then people with weak minds believed it was an issue, and then
people that are generally smarter then the average person saw this movement, and how much stupid people cared and then decided to cash in, and then you and other people like you decided to cash in by making threads like these in order to get stars and flags.


the whole thing stinks from the top down, you should be ashamed of yourself and start making threads that are not inspired by media that uses mind control in order to divide the "heard".



edit on 17-5-2016 by DOCHOLIDAZE1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: Mrgone

Probably is.



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
Mrgone

Its one of the current hotly debated talking points and its an important issue to some. I enjoyed the OP and I'm glad it was posted.

You always have the option to scroll on though.

and I also have the option to point out that this topic is not HOT. No one, literally no one that I know talks about this subject or even cares about it.

It's not a hot topic, it is the liberal issue dejour. Keep telling yourself it matters.



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:03 PM
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I applaud the OP.
This is a fantastic thread, and deserves a Flag and a Star.

I had no idea of the swamp into which I was wading this morning when I posted the Google link to "international day of stop hating whatever thing"........

Thanks for posting this.



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:04 PM
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"Willing to learn" really means to accept whatever is being pushed onto you.

"Willing to learn" really means watering down your beliefs to save face in the world.

"Willing to learn" really means to shut your mouth if you have a divergent opinion.

"Are you ready to conform?", is the question that is really being asked.
edit on 5/17/16 by NthOther because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

the only reason its debated because the msm said it to be so no one would care if we didnt have tv and internet and magazines your being played please start thinking about real issues



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:06 PM
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originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1



I came across this article this morning, and in light of all the very heated threads of late on ATS
a reply to: cuckooold


the only reason its a heated issue is because the main stream media made it an issue and then people with weak minds believed it was an issue, and then
people that are generally smarter then the average person saw this movement and how much stupid people cared and decided to cash in and then you and other people like you decided to cash in by making threads like these in order to get stars and flags.


the whole thing stinks from the top down, you should be ashamed of yourself and start making threads that are not inspired by media that uses mind control in order to divide the "heard".




Actually, no, I'm quite happy with myself, happy with this pastor's considered views, and think this article is of worthy of discussion. Judging by the positive response so far, I think others feel the same.

As for the 'stars and flags' comment, I've noticed you pull this out over and over again, whenever there is a thread/comment you somehow feel offended by. Do you have star/flag envy? If I truly wanted to gain stars and flags, I would post anti-transgender threads, anti-global warming threads, and woo threads about how cancer can be cured by eating just vitamin C and baking soda.

Seriously dude, you need to get a grip (or just scroll on by dude, scroll on by).
edit on 17-5-2016 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: Mrgone

issue dejour.

LOL!!!


It's "du jour" -
*eyeroll*

Do you even know what the term means?
I really wonder about the quality of teachers in this country.

This whole day reminds me of that antique 'office-memo' that circulated around back in the mid 70s:


“When you're up to your neck in alligators, it's easy to forget that the initial objective was to drain the swamp."






edit on 5/17/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther
"Willing to learn" really means to accept whatever is being pushed onto us.

"Willing to learn" really means watering down your beliefs to save face in the world.

"Willing to learn" really means to shut your mouth if you have a divergent opinion.

"Are you ready to conform?", is the question that is really being asked.
why can't I give you all of the stars?



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:11 PM
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originally posted by: NthOther
"Willing to learn" really means to accept whatever is being pushed onto us.

"Willing to learn" really means watering down your beliefs to save face in the world.

"Willing to learn" really means to shut your mouth if you have a divergent opinion.

"Are you ready to conform?", is the question that is really being asked.


So did you read the article, or are you just a having yet another knee-jerk reaction?

baptistnews.com...


The truth is that I don’t know any transgender persons — at least I don’t think I do. But with the help of a pediatrician friend and a geneticist friend, I’m listening and trying to learn. This is hard, though, because understanding the transgender experience seems so far outside what I have ever contemplated before. And the more I learn, the more theological questions I face as well. This is hard, even for a pastor.


Do you understand what willing to learn means?
edit on 17-5-2016 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: cuckooold

you know so much about me, are you a fan?

you know exactly what you doing , and why your doing it, the trans groupies will continue to boost you up and support you in any thread pro trans, i am simply pointing it out.

Yet you failed to address the main point in my post.

THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA IS THE ONLY REASON THIS IS AN ISSUE!!

If it wasnt for them and there mind control tactics we would not be talking on this thread now.

But since its all about trans on tv movies magazines we have to talk about every 10 min on ats.

Your either being swayed yourself or using the hype to your advantage, just saying



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: cuckooold

I don't know how you can see this as anything but a religious figure playing politics to facilitate the expansion of "big tent Christianity".

He's the hip pastor. You know, the one who "gets it".

Now just remember to make the check out to Such-and-Such Ministries...



The ease with which the human race is manipulated is frankly embarrassing. This guy is saying what he thinks people want to hear to take advantage of the frenzied debate.



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 08:32 PM
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I see trans'ism as a southpark issue. Only southpark can tackle big issues american society and the government have problems with.

Once southpark makes a "trans" or "trans-bathroom" episode, the topic will be put to rest. I guaran-forking-tee it



posted on May, 17 2016 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Mrgone

issue dejour.

LOL!!!


It's "du jour" -
*eyeroll*

Do you even know what the term means?
I really wonder about the quality of teachers in this country.

This whole day reminds me of that antique 'office-memo' that circulated around back in the mid 70s:


“When you're up to your neck in alligators, it's easy to forget that the initial objective was to drain the swamp."







is it? Our are you experiencing the Mandela effect?


edit on 05Tue, 17 May 2016 21:19:22 -0500920165America/Chicago by Mrgone because: (no reason given)



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