It's International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia!

a reply to: samerulesapply

I generally don't use gender oriented prefixes such as Ma'am, or Sir, I just say Hi, hello, good morning etc.
I don't see the issue myself. In business dealings or social settings and I'm not sure if someone is male/female it's never been an issue as I don't use gender based greetings etc.
Lol, I haven't called someon Ma'am or Sir since leaving the RNR many years ago now.

Take the unneeded gender prefix/labels away and there is no issue...even if you are not sure if someone identifies as male or female.

For example - l;ady Godiva was born a dude but always identified as a female.

Mizz Godiva wants to have her hair done all nice and goes into a ladies salon.

Janet what works there, she's quite old fashioned and doesn't want to do Godibas hair because Godiva isn't a real woman, or Janet decides to be professional but draws the line at calling Mr Godiva mizzzzz.

So Janet is a bigot... Janet the bigot refused to take part in a pantomime and thus is a hater, oppressor. What's the world coming to when a lady can't even have his hair cut without being hated on?

I know it's trivial but in the modern world trivial goes viral. I see things like this happening quite a lot (like that recent, absurd cake incident).

you cannot possibly continue on with the fallacy that this doesn't affect other peoples lives.

I se a lot of people against and it isn't hate. They're saying things like this - it's an illness, it's a disorder - people need genuine help.

that sounds like more of a compromise to me than hate.

But on the flip side there's no compromise, there's no give either way - the opponents are simply bigots and that's that. I reckon some serious and honest personal reflection is required by some.

This is what we get when we continually mollycoddle and baby people...pander to their every whime or they cry discrimination. We get people who are so self entitled that they refuse to even compromise opr accept an opposing view, like this is some war.

It's a social issue...in my experience the bigots tend to be the ones who cannot even comprehend the opposing arguments let alone give them an inch.

a reply to: grainofsand

I wouldn't fixate specifically on such old fashined labels there were just examples.

there are loads of words that we used to refer to something in a gender-specific way...he, she, etc. I'd have thought that patently obvious.

originally posted by: VashTheStampede
When is the day against heterophobia?

Every other day of the year.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
you cannot possibly continue on with the fallacy that this doesn't affect other peoples lives.

Trans people don't affect my life in any way. How do they affect yours exactly?

So far you've given me the 'inconvenience' of dropping the use of gender based greetings instead of just saying good morning or hello without the use of Ma'am or Sir.
Is that the sum total of the inconvenience you claim?

I only ask because I dropped such prefixes as most people I know did many years ago.
I'm interested in the apparent affect trans people have on your life though, I don't understand where they inconvenience you though so I am interested in practical examples though.

...all seems a bit minor to me but please do share your challenges with trans people, I like to understand or learn about different perspectives of course.

It's funny how, any time you ask a reasonable and sincere question, instead of getting an answer what you instead get is sidetracked by something completely trivial.

Dude, nobody says sir or ma'am any more!

And I'm like...yeah, I know. T'were but a slip of the finger! Channeled through me by the bigoted spirits of centuries past...

Some people are quite adept at that, they might be doing it on purpose or perhaps it's second nature to try and distract people from the actual issue at hand.

So will Mizz Godiva take offence if I can her mister? Bro? Lad?

How will this affect the French? It'll be chaos.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
a reply to: grainofsand

I wouldn't fixate specifically on such old fashined labels there were just examples.

there are loads of words that we used to refer to something in a gender-specific way...he, she, etc. I'd have thought that patently obvious.

Why would you be talking about someone in a he/she way if you were unsure?
I'd just say customer, 'they replied' etc...I don't find it at all difficult, but I guess I'm just used to my personal experiences.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: samerulesapply
you cannot possibly continue on with the fallacy that this doesn't affect other peoples lives.

Trans people don't affect my life in any way. How do they affect yours exactly?

So far you've given me the 'inconvenience' of dropping the use of gender based greetings instead of just saying good morning or hello without the use of Ma'am or Sir.
Is that the sum total of the inconvenience you claim?

I only ask because I dropped such prefixes as most people I know did many years ago.
I'm interested in the apparent affect trans people have on your life though, I don't understand where they inconvenience you though so I am interested in practical examples though.

...all seems a bit minor to me but please do share your challenges with trans people, I like to understand or learn about different perspectives of course.

They don't...and I want it to stay that way. I dunno any, but if it's a he then he'll be referred to as him whether he likes it or not.

What's your point?

originally posted by: samerulesapply
Dude, nobody says sir or ma'am any more!

Oh dear, read your post again.
You were the first of us to mention "Ma'am", I merely replied accordingly as a debate flows.
If you are ridiculing the mention of "Ma'am" why did you bring it into the debate first?

originally posted by: samerulesapply
I dunno any, but if it's a he then he'll be referred to as him whether he likes it or not.

What's your point?

No point, your above quoted comment says it all really.
I refer to people as the gender they identify with and present in public. You apparently refuse to even if you know they would prefer you to.
That is of course your free choice.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: samerulesapply
Dude, nobody says sir or ma'am any more!

Oh dear, read your post again.
You were the first of us to mention "Ma'am", I merely replied accordingly as a debate flows.
If you are ridiculing the mention of "Ma'am" why did you bring it into the debate first?

Good point...

Bigot: Hey, Jenny...you know that new...um, err...thing what started working in accounts today...what is it?
Jenny: Umm...I dunno but it's behind you!

Please...stop trying to trivialise this and make it sound like I'm talking only about addressing folk, this is small part of it and you know it...but like I said earlier with you fixating on my use of the words sir and ma'am...some are quite adept at distraction.

We've seen some good examples for you in previous posts. It's a simple concept..I remember you really need things broken down into modular, manageable chunks. Absolute primitives, even...I'll ask the core question again.

I'll simpify it specifically just for you...

Will or do trans folk expect myself and the rest of us to conform by addressing them by the gender with which they associate?

If you don't ever refer to people by gender...that's another blatant lie on your part. I see how it works, slipped in and it'll be glanced over and accepted...no. You most likely do use words like he and she quite regularly...either that or you're back in Narnia again living among the lions.

I've never met someone so obviously sly and deceitful on ATS before.

It's International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia!

And ever OTHER day week its GMOPHOBIA,BANKERPHOBIA,CORPORATIONPHOBIA,GUNPHOBIA,AND RICHPHOBIA.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
So will Mizz Godiva take offence if I can her mister? Bro? Lad?

I imagine it would cause them some unhappiness if they identify as female and present themselves as such in society.
I'm happy to be either gender neutral with my words or use the prefix they identify with.
Do you think it is wrong of me to be considerate to someone's feelings?

All of these threads are the same.

I'm always reminded of little toddlers refusing to eat their vegetables, and being mad and upset at their parents for feeding them food they don't like. In the end, they grow up and have no problem with those foods.

Societal immaturity and growing pains...that's what I see when I read through these. Somehow we all got used to the idea of white and black people marrying, and I'm sure the exact same conversations were had 40 years ago.

a reply to: samerulesapply

Wow, ad hom much?!

Go on, please explain where I have been deceitful? Please do quote me, I'm amused yet saddened at the same time that I'm in discussion with an apparently angry and bitter person who is yet to describe to me exactly how trans people have a practical and negative impact on your life.

I've not attacked you in any way. I've spoken solely of my perspective and reality.
Why does that seem to anger you so much?

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: samerulesapply
I dunno any, but if it's a he then he'll be referred to as him whether he likes it or not.

What's your point?

I refer to people as the gender they identify with and present in public.

We went through this with the: Miss, Mrs., Ms.

There was the same opposition and complaining.

In the end, you pick one. If they prefer something else they simply tell you.

Of course, there's always a militant or 2, but isn't there always?

a reply to: grainofsand

Nobody is questioning the integrity of your compassion towards others.

How the hell are you supposed to know, that's the point...do you take someone askide and be like...uh, noticed you were, eh, wearing a skirt and had an adams aplle...I, uh...how do I address you?

Or if I see a guy wearing makeup and with a beehive in a restaurant wearing an apron and I go...uh, waiter..es..s..errs?!??

Things must stay as they are, firml;y rooted in reality. It needs to stop, I shan't be playing such games.

So I'm relegated to being a bigot because I'd prefer to not wear blinkers? I like how people keep saying...

THIS IS ATS - DENY IGNORANCE, MAN!

And they're like...except you, bigot! You're not even human!

a reply to: Annee

Well said
I struggle to see why some members have such an issue with it though, lol it's not like it's a hardship or anything.

a reply to: grainofsand

There's you being deliberately flippant and misleading again...you asked for examples.

Like I said...it doesn't impact me, and I want it to stay that way. which part of that don't you get and I'll give you the dumbed down version again.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
a reply to: grainofsand
how do I address you?

Urm...Hello, Good Morning, Good Afternoon, Good Evening, Hi, perhaps?
You brought the Ma'am thing in, why do you feel to use a gender reference in your introduction to someone new?
If you are not sure then just say Hi.
Lol, it's hardly a challenge or an inconvenience is it? ...or is it?