It's International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia!

a reply to: chris_stibrany

I think sex and gender are the same thing. Gender is determined by your sex. If you want to be a different gender than your sex is, then I honestly think you have a chemical imbalance or mental illness, whether chemically or environmentally (abuse) based.

Is that your professional opinion?

It really doesn't matter what you "honestly think" if you have no idea what you're talking about. I took a little time over the last few days to read some of the current literature, maybe you should as well so that you're not self-righteously spouting ignorant drivel as though your uninformed opinion has any bearing on reality?

Homosexuality is different; it has been around for millennia, but transgenderism is only a modern thing based on mental problems and the availability of surgery that doesn't even make a real 'woman' or 'man' where one didn't' exist before, it makes some sort of Frankenstein's monster that everyone looks at because they can tell it is not a natural process.

Wrong again. In common usage, "transgender" is an umbrella term that covers all sorts of individuals who for one reason or another have a mismatch between their gender identity and their assigned sex. This can include various intersex people who in turn could be suffering from a number of conditions that aren't a "chemical imbalance" or the result of abuse but rather things like chromosomal disorders (of which there are many) that can lead to all sorts of variation in sexual characteristics.

What you are clumsily referring to is a condition that is called gender dysphoria. People with this condition aren't intersex but their gender identities, that is the gender that they feel that they are, does not match their biological sex. There is likely no single underlying cause for this condition and multiple lines of research indicate that in many cases there may be one ore more physiological and perhaps even genetic causes.

Then there is the issue of gender as a social construct. Cultures around the world going back into prehistory have had what are known as third genders (some have had more than 3).

Lastly, some people include transvestites (cross-dressers) and drag queens/drag kings under the term "trans" though this is not the same. These are people who wear the clothing of the opposite sex that they are born and identify with for a variety of reasons from stage performances to sexual fetishism. These people should not be included when discussing transgenderism because if they're simply wearing the clothes of the opposite gender, they're not actually transgender.

It is not something to be celebrated - it is something to be fixed.

You're ignoring the fact that most of the people you seem to have such a problem with are actually trying to fix the problem using the tools that are available to them which can include things like hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery.

Whatever the case may be, nobody needs you or I or anyone else to add to their problems by being jackasses.

Rant over and now you can all flame me.

Unlike the people YOU are flamming, you bring it on yourself. Fortunately, there's an easy fix for your "condition" and it's called education.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
a reply to: grainofsand

just don't understand why you find it so hard to believe that the people opposing you online would oppose you offline in a reasonable setting.

That is your invention again. I said I only see intolerance and bigotry online.

Apparently you don't need a setting...and will use force when necessary. Not sure what you mean by legal force but I shan't ask you any more question since it took you almost an hour to understand the first one.

But I'll assume that by legal force you mean running away, crying.

Lol, no. I mean force reasonable to the situation of being attacked physically by an angry bigot who chose violence to counter my calm words. I have been beaten a few times in life, part n parcel of responding to bigots with calm words as far as I see it.

I mean if you're brave enough to be so outspoken in person why is it so hard to believe the people opposing you aren't the same? I see that you've a cavalier attitude towards the bigots you spent half an hour pretending you'd never encountered before.

Who said any of that? Not me. More invention on your part.
I simply said I only see bigotry online and I wonder if the folk are just the same in real life.
I haven't pretended I've never encountered bigots, just I'm not aware of any now and haven't been for years.
More invention.

Go you!

Cheers!

a reply to: grainofsand

Yeah...I made it all up, don't worry everyone reading will see that and I'll be exposed as a shill, or something.

You've really shown me what for!

You know what...the toilet thing annoys me for the wrong reasons.

I never liked public toilets...whoever came up with that idea in the first place should have been taken to guantanamo bay for itnerrogation.

The solution is to allow us to pooh in dignity - single lavatories instead of those ones with multiple toilets in 'em.

I don't want to hear the chap through the wall to me any more than I want him to hear me. Public toilets are a disgusting concept, we're not cattle.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
a reply to: grainofsand

Yeah...I made it all up, don't worry everyone reading will see that and I'll be exposed as a shill, or something.

You've really shown me what for!

Lol, your debating style is interesting to say the least.
So what are your thoughts on minority social demographic groups raising awareness of the real abuse some of them experience?
I'm all for it. Bigotry and hatred has no place in my ideal world.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: chr0naut

Promiscuity, in ALL its forms, presents a public health risk. Sexually transmitted diseases are a problem that we can limit.

Homosexual lifestyles, as commonly expressed, are promiscuous. Figures released recently pointing to a higher infidelity in lesbian relationships, than in any other.

Are you serious?

Are you not aware of the increase in extra-marital activity among consenting committed partners?

Yes, STDs are something we can address/limit.
Promiscuity is a fact of human nature. You can not legislate chastity. It doesn't work, and never has.

Because no-one in history has ever abstained?

Because most societies for thousands of years have never promoted monogamy and opposed promiscuity?

You seem to be talking about a different species. Promiscuity is not, and has not, been the norm, now or in the past.

That most have appetites for promiscuity is not in question. Some have appetites for pedophilia or murder, it does not justify them taking action to appease those appetites.

Nor did I suggest we should "legislate chastity", I suggested that we should not promote promiscuity.

a reply to: grainofsand

I have no problem with people standing up for themselves.

On a personal level I don't see many people being denied anything based on their sexual preferences. I see and hear some naughty stuff but in general, for the most part people are civil.

Debates and arguments have a time and a place. I rarely get into confrontations with people but it has and can happen.

I'm not interested in persecuting anyone.

a reply to: samerulesapply

On a personal level I don't see many people being denied anything based on their sexual preferences. I see and hear some naughty stuff but in general, for the most part people are civil.

Things are very different outside of Western countries though. Gay people are treated abominably in many places.

a reply to: Domo1

I don't doubt it.

If this day really does bring awareness to their plight then it's a good thing.

I have absolutely no problem with homosexual people at all.

a reply to: samerulesapply

My issue is that in order for a man to be a woman, that the laws of physics must be defied. Not just by the person who harbours the idiotic belief that they're actually something they're not...but that we must also get into this li9ne of thinking. We must call what was once a he a her, and once a she a him.

All that verbiage and you could have just expressed the "idiotic belief" that you're "harboring" and saved yourself a lot of typing. I have never seen so many people so passionately defending their ignorance as in just the last few weeks. You are assuming, just as people have in the past, that transgender people are either making a choice or suffering from a psychological illness. The former doesn't apply in 99.9999% of cases and even if the latter were true, it would still be a disorder that people were suffering through no fault of their own. As it turns out, prevailing thought is that there is likely a physiological component to gender dysphoria. That means no amount of psychotherapy is likely to fix people who truly suffer from gender dysphoria.

Just as I would sincerely hope you wouldn't describe a schizophrenic person as having an "idiotic beliefs" it is unreasonable for you to make similar statements about transgender individuals. Setting aside the fact that it's rude and offensive, it's simply stupid and reflects a ignorance of the subject.

With the exception of morons and bigots (often one and the same) who by choice or ignorance do not or cannot make the distinction, afaik, the "lumping" you're talking about is more about social and political solidarity among groups of people who have been similarly mistreated.

One last thing:

What this amounts to, really is this - if you don't agree...shut your mouth and say nothing.

This is the worst cop out imaginable. What really floors me about this statement is that so many posters in this and other related threads have taken the stance that trans people are demanding to be catered to or indulged — you've said as much above — but what you seem to be missing is that it's no virtue to be tolerant of ignorance.

about time there was a day bringing this situation to light, I don't only think its morally wrong but it's physically wrong too.
GOD made Adam and eve not Adam and Steve. But that's just me I'm old fassioned and just don't get it.
what with all the hormones and other pharmaceutical crap flushed down the toilets as they pass through peoples body's
to then be ingested again in the form of tap water there's no wonder little boys are turning into little girls and vice verse.

keep it in the closet, I don't like to see this stuff forced down my neck every time I turn on the TV, sure there are a FEW cases
where there truly is a problem where something obviously wasn't right when some children were born into a body with bits
that were not meant to be there and that's a sad affair and they deserve to get help so they can live to be the person/sex they were supposed to be.
But I see a lot of folk jumping on the "oh it's trendy to be different" waggon. and this toilet thing? what a bloody mess!

I think young children are being told far to much about homosexuality to the point where it confuses them when there already confused enough about life in the first place.

now for the flames....... though I am allowed my opinion and I never set out to offend anyone, but I will have I guess.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Pretty much, yeah...thanks for reiterating my beliefs.

I can't believe that some people can't believe that people who think like me exist.

I do beg your a-pardon, but I do believe with all my heart that if a human has a penis and believes he is a woman that he harbours idiotic (to say the least) beliefs.

Now I don't particularly care if the guy next door believes in faeries or whatever...for all I care he can not really be a he, and nbe the proud owner of a vagina for all I care.

But when it's taught that it's normal...when kids are being fed this crap at school and given choices regarding gender then the gloves are off.

you can name it what you want, mental illness, genetic body whate the hell ever - bottom line is this, if it has an inny bit it's a she and if it's got an outy bit it's a he.

There should be no confusion as far as teaching this to kids goes...no matter the anme or labely ou give it, it's a condition that needs to be treated as such and not encouraged.

You're the one making comparisons here between trans folk and schizo's...not me.

I never said anything about schizohrenic people.

why do you associate the two to the point you'll come up with such an analogy?

Does this hail fromt he same place in your brain that tells you that homosexuals should be associated with trans people and given a special day alongside them?

I don't hate on any gender or whatever people want to be identified as

But I do have a question


What's the difference between one person of one sex believing they are in fact another sex despite their chromosomes

And a schizophrenic or other personality disorder that believes they are an animal? Or even another person? These people are considered clinical and the aforementioned are not....

Why?

a reply to: samerulesapply

I don't actually have a problem with the day either. I was irritated at the OP for attempting to quash any dissenting views.

I don't think it's going to do much to help people, but if it does then great.

Great OP!

Any OP that brings forth the spirit of brotherhood and sisterhood, unity and justice is always a great thing to do.

Just understand most of us are programmed to be divisive. We can’t help it, it is the essence of the Matrix.


We can’t get along because were programmed to fight each other.


It’s an inner sickness that is at the bottom of what true spiritual people like Buddha tried to teach us: self awareness…self reflection. Looking at oneself in order to understand and try to transcend and find the better way.

Its not easy

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
I don't hate on any gender or whatever people want to be identified as

But I do have a question


What's the difference between one person of one sex believing they are in fact another sex despite their chromosomes

And a schizophrenic or other personality disorder that believes they are an animal? Or even another person? These people are considered clinical and the aforementioned are not....

Why?

I am not sure, have never had any close personal transgendered friends. Have had a couple of conversations on line with them, and they don't present as multiple personalities, they present as what they identify as. I had a multiple month online conversation with a transwoman, as friends, I was trying to figure it out, she never came across as anything but a lady. We became friends, nothing sexual ever discussed.

I look at the suffering of our TG and gay brothers and sisters and feel deep compassion for them.

And hope this world can one day bring them happiness and fulfillment

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Really, people?

The words "insufferable bigot" keep coming to mind.

I even asked nicely to please keep it positive - and you just couldn't help yourselves. Amazing.

Oh Buzzy, you have established yourself here as a diehard Progressive Liberal Social Justice Warrior and you just posted a thread about a holiday that doesn't CELEBRATE gays and transgenders, its a day set aside to CONDEMN those who disagree with their lifestyle.

You've got a lot of nerve asking people to keep it positive when that was never your intention or the intention of this holiday to begin with. You also lost points with me by not letting someone more deserving of the stars and flags start this thread... you know, like an actual gay or trans person.

A sorely needed day for awareness.