American College of Pediatricians Says Reject Transgenderism

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: In4ormant

It is almost sad, if it is actually a mental disorder, that we are allowing these people to feed their delusion instead of addressing it.

Says the expert, I presume.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Annee

There have been many cases where a person with dysphoria went through puberty and the mind and body reconciled. You can't say unequivocally that it doesn't work that way.

What year. Who's documentation?

Provide source.

Just saying, I've read a lot of stuff - - - a lot of it crap. I've never read about a trans child going through puberty then changing to their physical sex.

sexnotgender.com...

WPATH'S report is among many.
From the pdf report in the link I gave.

"For example, most cases of childhood gender dsyphoria do not persist into adulthood"

Even the Endocrine Society’s guidelines say no cross sex hormones until 16 for this very reason.

"The outcome of childhood GID without treatment is that only a minority will identify as transsexual or transgender in adulthood (a phenomenon termed persistence), while the majority will become comfortable with their natal gender over time (a phenomenon termed desistence) (3-6). GID that persists into adolescence is more likely to persist into adulthood (2). Compared to the general population, the rate of homosexual orientation is increased in adulthood whether or not GID was treated (2, 4). It is currently not possible to differentiate between preadolescent children in whom GID will persist and those in whom it will not. To date, no long-term follow-up data have demonstrated that any modality of treatment has a statistically significant effect on later gender identity."


The link I gave you has many many reports and studies referenced. Even the Netherlands, which has taken the lead on such things doesn't advocate any cross sex therapy until 16 or post puberty.

Only America has started doing this puberty blocking nonsense.

a reply to: Annee

annee, it isn't settled science. and it likely won't be until we untangle human consciousness. which won't likely be in our lifetime.

but it isn't settled science. it isn't, and never will be, as simple as 'the body just doesn't match the mind', mostly because we can't even define what the 'mind' actually is.

a reply to: Annee

That statement works both ways, you are showing extreme bias toward the idea that this mental disorder not unlike bulimia, acute stress disorder, add, alcoholism, and so on can't be treated because "that is who they are" is obvious. But nothing you site makes you anymore correct on the matter than what I have said. How is Ed Gein not relevant? He was unhappy with who and what he was so he tried to change it. These people are not happy with what they are and seek to change it. A butcher is a butcher one just has a fancy diploma.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Science is never settled. Ever. We can only go by what we know now. Is there another way to make trans kids feel better without resorting to puberty blockers and hormones? We haven't found it yet, so we go with what has worked pretty well so far, until we find a better way. But just ignoring their problems because science isn't settled isn't the answer.

We do what we can for now while those in the science world keep studying the issue.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

annee, it isn't settled science. and it likely won't be until we untangle human consciousness. which won't likely be in our lifetime.

but it isn't settled science. it isn't, and never will be, as simple as 'the body just doesn't match the mind', mostly because we can't even define what the 'mind' actually is.

I've just never heard or read that before - - of a trans child going through puberty, then switching to the gender that matches their body.

I will need to do some reading.

a reply to: redshoes

Of course it's being used as a distraction, just as its being used to cause division. ~$heopleNation

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Annee

annee, it isn't settled science. and it likely won't be until we untangle human consciousness. which won't likely be in our lifetime.

but it isn't settled science. it isn't, and never will be, as simple as 'the body just doesn't match the mind', mostly because we can't even define what the 'mind' actually is.

I've just never heard or read that before - - of a trans child going through puberty, then switching to the gender that matches their body.

I will need to do some reading.

That's the reason other countries, health organizations, doctors put the age restriction on cross sex therapy. Why American doctors are ignoring those recomnendations baffles me. Maybe pressure from parents that want their kids to be happy NOW??

The percentages vary a little from different countries/organizations but I haven't seen one below 60%.

If 60% can have a mind and body reconciliation naturally.....skipping this opportunity shouldnt even be allowed.

The link I gave is very informative but a long read.multiple studies and pdf's to click on and read.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Science is never settled. Ever. We can only go by what we know now. Is there another way to make trans kids feel better without resorting to puberty blockers and hormones? We haven't found it yet, so we go with what has worked pretty well so far, until we find a better way. But just ignoring their problems because science isn't settled isn't the answer.

We do what we can for now while those in the science world keep studying the issue.

We shouldn't resort to making them feel better with life altering procedures until that's the last option. Making them sterile prior to giving puberty an opportunity is reckless.

There is no way on earth I condone sterilizing my daughter for life with puberty blockers and then resorting to surgery to remove her reproductive system prior to seeing if puberty can correct her distress.

That's just barbaric and I wouldn't do it to make her feel better at 12.

a reply to: In4ormant


Where did you hear that puberty blockers sterilize people? Surgery wouldn't happen before puberty.

Are you sure you're understanding this properly?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: In4ormant


Where did you hear that puberty blockers sterilize people? Surgery wouldn't happen before puberty.

Are you sure you're understanding this properly?

I've already linked in previous post that has numerous studies and that subject was covered. There is also other side effects associated with it as outlined in those studies and pdfs.

Yes surgery isn't performed until after puberty, but taking the blockers and then having the surgery negates giving puberty a chance. Saying that doctors wait until after puberty when not actually allowing puberty to happen is misleading.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: Anneethanks Annee. I'm just interested why it's not an issue elsewhere in the world. I've only really heard about the issue since being on ats. I'm sure it will come to the uk soon and hopefully we can treat it all with a bit more rationally

America has a problem with uptight Puritan Fundamentalists.

And their powerful Political Christian Lobby.

This comment of yours proves exactly how mindlessly bias both sides of this are.

You said "America has a problem", which reveals you must believe that anyone who disagrees with you isn't "the true America" or whatever.

No, it means I was responding to someone who was not American. Who asked a question,.

Incorrect, it doesn't matter who you responded to, what mattered was the way you framed that response in terms of how you present what you view is the crux of the issue.

I'm not changing it either.

America is a secular Democratic Republic.

Fundies want it to be a theocracy.

Christians should never have had the political controlling power they've been allowed to get away with from the beginning.

I've been watching them kicking and screaming from this control being taken away from them since the 60s.

Hasn't gone far enough IMO. Yet.

That is not the issue and you know it.

You indicated they aren't even Americans at all. What do you suggest? Prison sentences, deporting them, summary executions?

How far does it need to go?
You claim America is a Democratic Republic but deny the title "American" to your ideological opponents, which is their citizenship status?

I know very well the vibe radiating from you on this topic. It's "H-A-T-E".

Do you actually not care that you are becoming the monster you sought out to defeat? The "new Puritan Fundie"?

You said they aren't even Americans, won't retract it at least claiming grammatical error, and insist you'd like to see it go further?

Where does the revenge stop Annee?
I'm telling you the problem is in your Heart, it's Spiritual. Please, reconsider your position.

At least concede that Christians deserve citizenship status too, and have the right to religious beliefs, and to hold opinions and speak their minds as Americans.

I can't believe you are so deep in this you don't accept Christians as Americans. This is the essence of cognitive dissonance and discrimination.

I haven't heard anyone say Transgenders aren't entitled to American citizenship yet. What's going on here???

This debate is going way too far, it's like the whole foundation of civilization is at stake. I guess it really is now...

a reply to: In4ormant

Your links doesn't show anything about puberty blockers sterilizing people. Taking them can reduce fertility and there isn't enough research to find out if it's reversible. Besides I don't hear much about transgender people suffering from it.

a reply to: In4ormant

Ah yes, science.

It is bad when what is later determined to be faulty research methodology and metrics is widely accepted by other researchers and organizations without being properly vetted. Even WPATH has fallen victim to this.

The End of the Desistance Myth

There is a difference between gender variant children and those with gender dysphoria. When the distinctions are made, desistance becomes indeed a myth. Dr. Johanna Olsen at the Children's Medical Center in LA says she has never seen a case of this in her practice and she's one of the leading physicians in the country dealing with transgender children. There are others and current research projects are underway that will most undoubtedly put this myth that trans kids "change their mind" to bed. Gender variant/gender non-conforming is not the same as being transgender with gender dysphoria.

Now, let me speak as someone that was transgender as a child. You all can say all the things you want and find what ever fancy papers you want to support your position but this my lived experience and I know it first hand. Going through an inappropriate puberty was the worst and most horrible time in my life. I was an unwilling passenger on a train going nowhere and it is only by some dumb luck that I hadn't killed myself by the time I was 15.

I was 18 and it was 1973 before I was able to start hormones but I would have given anything to never had to deal with the physical changes of puberty. Fortunately, I was a late bloomer and the physical effects I did experience not nearly as bad as they could have been or are for others but still some of these things have plagued me for life and no kid needs to have to deal with that.

Psychologically, I was a girl and only a girl from my very first memories and that nor my gender has ever changed, wavered or been questioned. I was not a confused child nor was I "mentally ill". Believe me when I say I've had every psychological test known to man and have seen probably a dozen different psychiatrists and psychologists growing up and was even studied at a university when I was in the 8th grade. In spite of the era, by the time I was 18, my parents switched name and pronouns because obviously I had never been a boy and no way in hell was I going to ever grow up and be a man. In 1977 at 22, I had sex reassignment surgery and have lived a very normal, happy and sometimes boring life completely blended into society and my medical history is not known except to family and the folks here at ATS that I've shared it with to help raise awareness and understanding.

So to those saying kids are too young to know or saying preventing natal puberty is a bad thing, all I can say that for kids like I was, you are all very very wrong. Anyone here remember JadeStar? Early intervention saved her life and she is now an attractive happy young woman attending university. If she was still here, I'm sure she would say the same things I have.

Finally, the Endocrine Society guidelines are being revised and due out this summer. They are still advocating puberty blockers at Tanner stage 2 and changing the recommendation of waiting until 16 to be begin cross-sex hormones to beginning when it appropriate for the individual.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A TRANSGENDER CHILD - what teams of doctors and parents decide is best for their children is none of your damn business. What is really barbaric is doing nothing or watching your children suffer. It's easy to stand back and throw ignorant comments on a message board. It's another thing when it touches your family.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Wow.

Well, now I know why the piddly-ass thread I made about it being "International Day Against [Sex-related] Phobias" is being flamed.

Sorry, everyone. Didn't realize I was up against this.

How utterly stupid of me.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

People don't seem to understand the whole can of worms that is being opened with this "newest government mandate".

First, this opens the doors to men who are not transgender but who want to take advantage of this situation and claim they are, just to get access to women's bathrooms.

There have been already many cases of this happening.

Man in women's locker room cites gender rule

Seattle Parks and Recreation is facing a first-of-a-kind challenge to gender bathroom rules. A man undressed in a women's locker room, citing a new state rule that allows people to choose a bathroom based on gender identity.

It was a busy time at Evans Pool around 5:30pm Monday February 8. The pool was open for lap swim. According to Seattle Parks and Recreation, a man wearing board shorts entered the women's locker room and took off his shirt. Women alerted staff, who told the man to leave, but he said "the law has changed and I have a right to be here."

"Really bizarre," MaryAnne Sato said. "I can't imagine why they would want to do that anyway!"

Sato uses the locker room a few times a week, but she says this is a first for her. It's also a first for Seattle Parks and Recreation. Employees report that the man made no verbal or physical attempt to identify as a woman, yet he still cited a new rule that allows bathroom choice based on gender identification.

The issue drew protesters from both sides to Olympia on Monday. Opponents claim the rule opens up bathrooms to voyeurs but supporters say that's an unrealistic fear.

No one was arrested in this case and police weren't called, even though the man returned a second time while young girls were changing for swim practice.

"Sort of works against the point they're trying to make. They're causing people to feel exposed and vulnerable with the intention of reducing people feeling exposed and vulnerable," said pool regular Aldan Shank.
...

www.king5.com...

Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter

Posted by Editor on Friday, April 1, 2016

LifeSiteNews 4 March 2016
Family First Comment: They deny cases like these will happen – but don’t believe them. They do happen.

A biological man claiming to be ‘transgender’ so as to gain access to and prey on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed “indefinitely” last week after being declared by a judge a “dangerous offender.”

Pro-family leaders are pointing out that this is exactly the type of incident they warned of as the Ontario government passed its “gender identity” bill, dubbed the “bathroom bill,” in 2012.

Christopher Hambrook, 37, leaned on the ever expanding legal “rights” offered to people who “identify” with the sex opposite their biology. Under the name “Jessica,” he was able to get into the women’s shelters, where he sexually assaulted several women in 2012, the Toronto Sun reports.

Ontario amended its Human Rights Code to make “gender identity” and “gender expression” prohibited grounds for discrimination in 2012. The bill’s sponsors said at the time that the so-called “Toby’s Law” would open the door to “social change” in Canada.
...

www.familyfirst.org.nz...

And this happened before this "new mandate by the far left government"...

University Of Toronto Gender-Neutral Bathrooms Reduced After Voyeurism Reports
The Huffington Post Canada | By Jessica Chin

Posted: 10/06/2015 5:43 pm EDT Updated: 10/07/2015 9:59 am EDT


AdChoices

The University of Toronto (U of T) is temporarily changing its policy on gender-neutral bathrooms after two reports of voyeurism in a student residence.

Two women showering in Whitney Hall, a residence at U of T's University College, reported they saw a cellphone reach over the shower-stall dividers in an attempt to record them, in two different incidents, police Const. Victor Kwong told The Toronto Star.

Melinda Scott, dean of students at University College, told campus newspaper The Varsity that some washrooms in the college's residences will now be separated by gender for "those who identify as men and those who identify as women."
-Advertisement-
x

"At the same time, there remains at least one gender-neutral washroom per floor and per house,” Scott said.

“The purpose of this temporary measure is to provide a safe space for the women who have been directly impacted by these events and other students who may feel more comfortable in a single-gender washroom in the wake of these incidents."
...

www.huffingtonpost.ca...

Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say

A man dressed as a woman was arrested in Virginia on Monday after police say he was caught peeping into restroom stalls three times in the past year.

Richard Rodriguez, 30, filmed a woman in a bathroom stall at the Potomac Mills Mall, Prince William County Police said on Tuesday. A 35-year-old woman was in the stall when she saw a bag moved toward her under the stall divider. Rodriguez apparently had been filming her, police said.

The victim rushed out of the stall to confront the man and saw him hurry to another stall, next to another woman. The victim alerted the woman and then contacted mall security of the shopping center on 2700 block of Potomac Mills Circle in Woodbridge, Virginia.
...

www.nbcwashington.com...

Man Disguised as Woman Recorded "Hours" of Mall Restroom Video: Investigators
The suspect was wearing a wig, women's clothing and bra when he was found in a mall storage area, according to deputies
By John Cadiz Klemack and Jonathan Lloyd

Charges were filed Tuesday against a man who wore a wig and women's clothing to disguise himself as he allegedly used a concealed camera to record "hours" of video of women in a Los Angeles-area department store restroom.

Jason Pomare, 33, of Palmdale, was arrested Saturday after customers contacted security officers at a Macy's store to report a man in the women's restroom. The security officers contacted a deputy, who was on patrol at the Antelope Valley Mall (map) when he saw a man matching the subject's description leave the store.
...

www.nbclosangeles.com...

University Of Toronto Backs Off On Gender Neutral Bathrooms After Men Record Women Showering With Cellphones
Andrew Mark Miller
April 11, 2016 4:20 pm

One of the most talked about issues in the country today is the question of whether or not men should be allowed to use women’s restrooms if they “identify” as women.

Some states have passed laws saying that men and women should use separate bathrooms and liberals have not taken too kindly to that.
...
One of the biggest concerns people have is the obvious likelihood that men will enter into female restrooms and locker rooms with bad intentions.
...

www.youngcons.com...

originally posted by: Freija
a reply to: In4ormant

Ah yes, science.

It is bad when what is later determined to be faulty research methodology and metrics is widely accepted by other researchers and organizations without being properly vetted. Even WPATH has fallen victim to this.

The End of the Desistance Myth

There is a difference between gender variant children and those with gender dysphoria. When the distinctions are made, desistance becomes indeed a myth. Dr. Johanna Olsen at the Children's Medical Center in LA says she has never seen a case of this in her practice and she's one of the leading physicians in the country dealing with transgender children. There are others and current research projects are underway that will most undoubtedly put this myth that trans kids "change their mind". Gender variant/gender non-conforming is not the same as being transgender with gender dysphoria.

Now, let me speak as someone that was transgender as a child. You all can say all the things you want and find what ever fancy papers you want to support your position but this my lived experience and I know it first hand. Going through an inappropriate puberty was the worst and most horrible time in my life. I was an unwilling passenger on a train going nowhere and it is only by some dumb luck that I hadn't killed myself by the time I was 15.

I was 18 and it was 1973 before I was able to start hormones but I would have given anything to never had to deal with the physical changes of puberty. Fortunately, I was a late bloomer and the physical effects I did experience not nearly as bad as they could have been or are for others but still some of these things have plagued me for life and no kid needs to have to deal with that.

Psychologically, I was a girl and only a girl from my very first memories and that nor my gender has ever changed, wavered or been questioned. I was not a confused child nor was I "mentally ill". Believe me when I say I've had every psychological test known to man and have seen probably a dozen different psychiatrists and psychologists growing up and was even studied at a university when I was in the 8th grade. In spite of the era, by the time I was 18, my parents switched name and pronouns because obviously I had never been a boy and no way in hell was I going to ever grow up and be a man. In 1977 at 22, I had sex reassignment surgery and have lived a very normal, happy and sometimes boring life completely blended into society and my medical history is not known except to family and the folks here at ATS that I've shared it with to help raise awareness and understanding.

So to those saying kids are too young to know or saying preventing natal puberty is a bad thing, all I can say that for kids like I was, you are all very very wrong. Anyone here remember JadeStar? Early intervention saved her life and she is now an attractive happy young woman attending university. If she was still here, I'm sure she would say the same things I have.

Finally, the Endocrine Society guidelines are being revised and due out this summer. They are still advocating puberty blockers at Tanner stage 2 and changing the recommendation of waiting until 16 to be begin cross-sex hormones to beginning when it appropriate for the individual.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A TRANSGENDER CHILD - what teams of doctors and parents decide is best for their children is none of your damn business. What is really barbaric is doing nothing or watching your children suffer. It's easy to stand back and throw ignorant comments on a message board. It's another thing when it touches your family.

It's apparent your only going to believe the doctors you want to believe on this. WHO,WPATH,Netherland,Johns Hopkins,Canada etc. be damned.

Waiting till puberty is sensible and gives kids an opportunity, no matter how small, the ability to have a reproductive future. Not just a new coat of paint to match their inner self.

#givepubertyachance







I'

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The first one was truly bizarre because the police was never called. I'm calling that one an hoax.

As for the rest? They are sent to prisons. Why? Because we still have laws. An those people? They are not transgender people.

That's the first problem, and now this is also going to start happening in children's bathrooms as well.

Second problem with this sort of "government mandate" brings is that it is the opinion of the government being forced on everyone else.

The third problem.

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

Cecilia Dhejne,
Paul Lichtenstein,
Marcus Boman,
Anna L. V. Johansson,
Niklas Långström,
Mikael Landén

PLOS

Published: February 22, 2011
dx.doi.org...


Abstract
Context

The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dearth of long term, follow-up studies after sex reassignment.
Objective

To estimate mortality, morbidity, and criminal rate after surgical sex reassignment of transsexual persons.
Design

A population-based matched cohort study.
Setting

Sweden, 1973-2003.
Participants

All 324 sex-reassigned persons (191 male-to-females, 133 female-to-males) in Sweden, 1973–2003. Random population controls (10∶1) were matched by birth year and birth sex or reassigned (final) sex, respectively.
Main Outcome Measures

Hazard ratios (HR) with 95% confidence intervals (CI) for mortality and psychiatric morbidity were obtained with Cox regression models, which were adjusted for immigrant status and psychiatric morbidity prior to sex reassignment (adjusted HR [aHR]).
Results

The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls.
Conclusions

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

Link

Not all transgender people are like this, but accommodating children at an early age when their minds are so easily malleable by outside influences is not always a good idea and can bring a lot of problems for those children and to others. Once children have been fully transitioned as "they jump into the bandwagon" believing that they are trapped in the wrong body when they might not be, it could bring a lot of psychiatric problems for these children, making those children hurt themselves, or hurting others.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The first one was truly bizarre because the police was never called. I'm calling that one an hoax.

As for the rest? They are sent to prisons. Why? Because we still have laws. An those people? They are not transgender people.

Why is it a hoax? Do you have any idea how many people don't help others because they are afraid to be sued? This could be such a case. People being afraid to be sued "for having a phobia" and not calling the police.