History of Freemasonry Help

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes but in addition they were skilled in esoteric knowledge as all temple builders of antiquity were, they encode this esoteric information into stone the most durable of materials.

a reply to: zinc12

Provide examples.

a reply to: zinc12

Guess you could not find any in 4 days.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: zinc12

Guess you could not find any in 4 days.

Did you really expect any fictitious information to suddenly appear?

It's amazing that there's been a few on here that have jumped on the thread without reading the op.

It's about evidence, not a theory or what a gypo says/thinks. Opinions are worthless in a thread asking for evidence.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
It's amazing that there's been a few on here that have jumped on the thread without reading the op.

Agreed. From the multiple account bozo to people just inventing things you have had quite a few.

It's about evidence, not a theory or what a gypo says/thinks. Opinions are worthless in a thread asking for evidence.

Which is why I would have liked to have seen some photos posted by the above poster, it could have helped to further the historical record but I am not holding out hope.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TerryDon79
It's amazing that there's been a few on here that have jumped on the thread without reading the op.

Agreed. From the multiple account bozo to people just inventing things you have had quite a few.

I didn't really expect anything else. There's always someone (or multiple someones) who ignore evidence and prefer fantasy.

It's about evidence, not a theory or what a gypo says/thinks. Opinions are worthless in a thread asking for evidence.

Which is why I would have liked to have seen some photos posted by the above poster, it could have helped to further the historical record but I am not holding out hope.

It would certainly have been interesting to see any new evidence, other than what has been posted.

I wish I could find something tangible and verifiable pre 10th century.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
I didn't really expect anything else. There's always someone (or multiple someones) who ignore evidence and prefer fantasy.

I hear you. Sometimes it would be better if they just shut up and read, there are plenty of people on here willing tom share information that is factual and verifiable.

It would certainly have been interesting to see any new evidence, other than what has been posted.

I wish I could find something tangible and verifiable pre 10th century.

KSig always has some good information to add. Maybe PM'ing him and seeing if he could further what you already uncovered.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TerryDon79
I didn't really expect anything else. There's always someone (or multiple someones) who ignore evidence and prefer fantasy.

I hear you. Sometimes it would be better if they just shut up and read, there are plenty of people on here willing tom share information that is factual and verifiable.

It would be funny if the fantasists would at least recognise truth from story.

It would certainly have been interesting to see any new evidence, other than what has been posted.

I wish I could find something tangible and verifiable pre 10th century.

KSig always has some good information to add. Maybe PM'ing him and seeing if he could further what you already uncovered.

I think I will. He has offered some good information already. Maybe he can pop in here (if he sees it) and share some more to at least point me in the right direction.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
It would be funny if the fantasists would at least recognise truth from story.

I think it is more of an ego stroke for them to pop in and pretend like the have the sooper sekret knowledge but you are just not ready to hear what it is because you are an un-awoken sheep.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TerryDon79
It would be funny if the fantasists would at least recognise truth from story.

I think it is more of an ego stroke for them to pop in and pretend like the have the sooper sekret knowledge but you are just not ready to hear what it is because you are an un-awoken sheep.

There's that as well.

And the "you must not be a high enough Mason" argument, directed at 3rd/33rd degree masons. Some of which have been the Grand Master in the GL. And the lack of understanding of the degrees.

Irony lol.

a reply to: TerryDon79

well that's just rude

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: TerryDon79

well that's just rude

Are you on about me or them?

a reply to: TerryDon79

"you must not be a high enough Mason" argument,"

them

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: TerryDon79

"you must not be a high enough Mason" argument,"

them

That's the main anti-Freemason arguments that's used. It's rediculous considering that some of the Freemasons here (and the ones I've known personally) HAVE been "high enough".

Something I have noticed while in my search for the history of freemasonry.

There is an awful lot of mistranslated old French and German documents mentioning masonry. But once you get into the real translations you see how it's actually wrong.

The amount of rabbit holes that lead to a rumour, fictitious source or just a dead-end is amazing.

Also, the amount of disinformation about freemasonry is beyond mind boggling. There are people that have, literally, made information up to get YouTube hits, website hits, book sales etc.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
There is an awful lot of mistranslated old French and German documents mentioning masonry. But once you get into the real translations you see how it's actually wrong.

It would be fascinating to see, whenever you get the chance, some of the examples you came across. I am sure they will be illuminating.

Also, the amount of disinformation about freemasonry is beyond mind boggling. There are people that have, literally, made information up to get YouTube hits, website hits, book sales etc.

*shocked face*

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TerryDon79
There is an awful lot of mistranslated old French and German documents mentioning masonry. But once you get into the real translations you see how it's actually wrong.

It would be fascinating to see, whenever you get the chance, some of the examples you came across. I am sure they will be illuminating.

I'll post some later on. There's some wonderfully bad translations too lol. Some of them are a simple mistranslation of builder or architect. You can kind of understand why though. Builder, architect, Mason.

Also, the amount of disinformation about freemasonry is beyond mind boggling. There are people that have, literally, made information up to get YouTube hits, website hits, book sales etc.

*shocked face*

I know lol.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I thought I'd add this as a separate post, rather than an edit.

Some of the mistranslations are like the reason some people believe Freemasons worship the satan. It's a misunderstanding/mistranslation about Lucifer. Some think lucifer=Satan, while it actually means the morning star.

All you need do is type in Google "Freemasons worship lucifer" to see the results.

But, if you type in "Lucifer the morning star" you can see the difference straight away.

It's a mistranslation or misunderstanding of the morning star and Albert Pike.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I forgot to post this last week. cuttingedge.org

I stumbled across it while searching a few other things and left it in my bookmarks to check over.

It looks like a web version of a televangelist. Selling this and that, preaching this and that. Then there's the Freemason part and the title "TITLE: MASONRY PROVEN CONCLUSIVELY TO BE WORSHIP OF LUCIFER, SATAN! Part 1 of 2". Funny thing is, there's no conclusive proof (shock, right?).

First thing you'll notice is, they quote mine Carl H. Claudy. That seems to be a normal find when I follow links. (Side note: I don't know much about Claudy outside of the books he wrote about Freemasonry)

They even quote and speak of Albert Pike. Anywhere, or anyone, that uses Albert Pike as a source of information, hasn't done enough (if any) research of their own outside of propaganda sites.

This is just one of hundreds (if not thousands) of examples of people following bad information about freemasonry.

Just thought I'd update my line of searching. I still can't find anything pre 10th century apart from vague references that are leading me nowhere.

I'm considering looking at the history of the symbols and rituals used to see if I can get a better fix for an origin. The only problem with that is, I have no idea where to start lol. At least with written history I can pick up a book and start from there. Any one have any ideas?