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Religious Fundamentalism and Intolerance

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posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:08 AM
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I know this thread is going to upset many people but I don't really care at this point, I feel like it needs to be said because ATS is becoming more and more dominated by people with religious tendencies. There are mainly two types of people who post on ATS: atheists/agnostics and those with some type of "faith". The believers are quite open minded otherwise they wouldn't have faith in the first place, that is why they are on ATS and why they often don't have trouble accepting controversial theories which lack hard evidence. On the other hand, the non-believers on ATS are open minded and very skeptical of the mainstream narrative, but they often take a more scientific approach and are less likely to believe crazy theories such as the hollow Earth theory or the existence of demons and ghosts. Of course I'm making some rather large generalizations and they aren't always true, but for the most part ATS members do fall into one of those two groups.

As you probably guessed by now I am in the non-believer group, and I tend to apply scientific and logical reasoning to most theories discussed on ATS. But I've noticed that over the last few years the voice of the non-believers and the realists is starting to get drowned out by the Christian group and other religious groups. Now I'm not saying all persons with faith are idiots or don't have a right to express their opinion, it's your choice what you want to believe and I have religious friends and family. But I still think there is a serious problem when ridiculous notions are commonly propagated and believed because they were written in some book thousands of years ago. And worse, when fundamentalists use those warped philosophies and take them to the extreme it really starts to become a problem for society. They use their beliefs to project hatred towards minorities and then try to justify it as the will of God.

The reason I decided to make this thread was because I recently came across a comically disturbing video on YouTube which perfectly demonstrates the point I'm trying to make. Recently, a YouTube channel called "LeafyIsHere" has exploded in popularity and I'm always seeing his videos being recommended to me. I decided to watch a few of them and they were actually pretty funny, although I'm sure they wont be to everyone's taste. The guy basically just makes videos in which he watches dumb YouTube videos and burns them for being so stupid. Recently he made a video about this insane girl who makes highly racist videos about things such as "how to spot a Jew". If you thought the Scottish guy with the antisemitic dog was offensive, then you haven't seen anything yet. But some how this girl goes on making racist videos without being arrested like the Scottish guy who was just joking.

Anyway, LeafyIsHere made a video about this girl and totally roasted her. He said that he thought her videos were a parody at first, but he did a lot of research and discovered many things to indicate she was the real deal, including the fact she seemed to be friends with real KKK members. So less than a day after making that video, some guy who appears to be a member of the KKK publishes a video to YouTube in which he states how their organization is "not happy with his n***er loving ways". The member then proceeds to threaten the life of LeafyIsHere and says he will be hung if he ever enters the "southern homeland" and that "the only way to redeem yourself is to accept Jesus Christ into your heart and repent the sins you have committed against your white Christian brothers". Here we have a prime example of how religious fundamentalism leads to intolerance and racism.



And I know you're going to say "hey come on now this is just one isolated example and cannot be used to condemn religion as a whole". But is it really isolated, is it? Lately I've been playing a lot of online games and I'm absolutely shocked by how racist other players can be when they're able to hide behind anonymity, there's even clans who use titles like KKK. More often the not, the people in these clans try to use some sort of religious foundation to justify their hatred of other human beings. Case in point, most members of terrorist organizations are Islamic fundamentalists, and harbor an extreme hatred for certain groups of people, and they justify it by using their religion, even up to the point of committing mass murder. I cannot count the number of times I've heard people claim "Islam is a dangerous religion and should not be tolerated", but you hardly ever hear people saying how dangerous other religions are.

I think many other religions can be just as dangerous, creating unwarranted hatred against minorities such as gay people or certain races of people. It seems to me a great deal of believers are morally corrupt, I cannot count the number of priests I've seen charged with child abuse over the last few years. And it worries me that some of this religious fundamentalism is starting to leak onto ATS, especially with the rise of Trump's popularity. It doesn't even matter if Trump is not racist at all, racist groups have latched onto Trump and support his policies such as building a massive wall or blocking all Muslims from entering into the U.S. I know people have many other reasons for supporting Trump but it still worries me when I see him get so much popularity on ATS. Regardless of the racism issues, the guy is clearly not the underdog he's purported to be and there's every reason in the world to distrust the man.

I just don't like seeing ATS transform into this Trump loving, faith based, feel-good circle jerk, with thinly veiled racism in many discussions. And I know that might sound like harsh words but don't you guys like it when people just say what they mean without sugar coating it? I feel like religion is one of the worste plagues to ever fall upon human kind and I'm not afraid to say that. If you want to believe in some higher force so you can feel better about death then that is your prerogative, but there's no reason to think the truth is held in some old religious text which was clearly written by bigoted men in a less civilized time. There's no way to know that your particular religion is any more valid than any other religion, your faith is most likely just a result of where you were born, and there are many places you could have been born. I know this thread is not going to go down well at all but it should be interesting never the less.
edit on 15/5/2016 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:18 AM
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Unfortunately this has happened before on ATS, and I know a lot of member left because of it. There was a rise in far-right attitudes, homophobia, racism and so on, and perhaps no surprise it was alongside a rise in "Christian" posts and Conservative garbage.

The funny thing is that these same people are the ones who associate Islam with Terrorism, while completely ignoring the link between Christianity and far-right ideas in our own societies and on this very forum.

There's little that can be done about this, you've seen how they "gang up" in threads and ignore all the difficult points while instead opting for blatant hate speech against entire groups of people. The only option in my opinion is to give them a dose of what they dish out when you can, which is why I can often be found in those threads outing those Conservative "Christians" as loathsome bigots. It's what they are after all.

There are a lot of us here, but most shy away from those threads because they know they become a right-wing circle jerk as you say, so what's the point? I just tend to dip in there and leave my opinion for the ignoramuses to ponder before getting on with more important things.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:33 AM
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a reply to: Rocker2013

Well I prefer not to frame things as "left and right" because quite honestly I do lean to the right and if I lived in the US I would vote for someone like Rand Paul or a libertarian such as Gary Johnson. The point I'm making here has more to do with religious beliefs rather than political beliefs. I think it's important to show why all religions, and not just religions like Islam, lead to unwarranted hatred and violence around the world. People just need to think for themselves more often, and rely less on advice from thousands of years ago.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:36 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: Rocker2013

Well I prefer not to frame things as "left and right" because quite honestly I do lean to the right and if I lived in the US I would vote for someone like Rand Paul or a libertarian such as Gary Johnson. The point I'm making here has more to do with religious beliefs rather than political beliefs. I think it's important to show why all religions, and not just religions like Islam, lead to unwarranted hatred and violence around the world. People just need to think for themselves more often, and rely less on advice from thousands of years ago.


Well, I wish I could separate the two, but they are intrinsically linked. It's only the Republican Conservatives attempting to pass laws removing the rights of other free Americans based on race, gender, sexuality and religious belief, there are no democrats attempting to do these things as far as I can see.

It's not the democrats standing on podiums trying to defund women's health, trying to "ban Muslims", trying to pass laws criminalizing everyday aspects of LGBT peoples lives, attempting to prevent Black Americans from voting...

These are all Conservative attempts to remove the rights of other Americans and place themselves above all others. That's a reality I can't simply ignore.

I appreciate you attempting to remain impartial though, I wish I could to that.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:48 AM
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Totally agree with the OP.

I am here on ATS, after a long hiatus as I was recently in a forum where a religious minority practically took over the forum (it is so small, there are are no mods at the minute), and if you were not one of them, you were only welcome if you shared their belief values.

I would hate to see that happen here at ATS as I value the input and opinions of people of all beliefs, provided as there is freedom of expression, and permission to disagree, for all.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:51 AM
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I'm guessing that lovely gentleman in that video was Christian Identity which is basically for white supremacists what black liberation theology is for blacks. Both attempt to take traditional Christian theology and twist it to suit the more material and political concerns of the groups they serve.


Christian Identity ("CI") is not an organized religion, but is instead composed of individuals, churches and some prison gangs[5] with a white supremacist theology[6][7] that promotes a racial interpretation of Christianity. Christian Identity beliefs were primarily developed and promoted by two authors who considered Europeans to be the chosen people and Jews to be the cursed offspring of the "serpent hybrid" (in Dual Seedline Christian Identity) Cain. An early Christian Identity teacher, Wesley Swift, formulated the doctrine that non-Caucasian peoples have no souls and therefore can never earn God's favor or be saved.[8][9] The sect was promoted by George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of the American Nazi Party.

No single document expresses the Christian Identity belief system and there is much disagreement over the doctrines being taught by those ascribing to CI beliefs since there is no central organization or headquarters for the CI sect. But all CI adherents believe that Adam and his offspring were exclusively White and that the other races are separate species, which cannot be equated with or derived from the Adamites.[10] CI adherents cite passages from the Old Testament, including Ezra 9:2,12 and Nehemiah 13:27, which they claim contain injunctions by Yahweh against interracial marriages. Christian Identity believers reject the doctrines of most contemporary Christian denominations[11] and believe the teaching that God's promises to Israel (through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) has been expanded to create a spiritual people of "Israel", i.e., the Christian Church, is heresy.[12]


The reasons to criticize CI should be obvious.


Anthony Bradley of the Christian Post interprets that the language of "economic parity" and references to "mal-distribution" as nothing more than channeling the views of Karl Marx. He believes James Cone and Cornel West have worked to incorporate Marxist thought into the Black church, forming an ethical framework predicated on a system of oppressor class versus a victim much like Marxism.[18]

Trinity United Church of Christ, Chicago is the church most frequently cited by press accounts, and by Cone as the best example of a church formally founded on the vision of Black liberation theology.[9] The 2008 Jeremiah Wright controversy, over alleged racism and anti-Americanism in Wright's sermons and statements, caused then-Senator Barack Obama to distance himself from his former pastor.[9][19]

Stanley Kurtz of the National Review wrote about the perceived differences with 'conventional American Christianity'. He quoted Black-liberation theologian Dr. Obery M. Hendricks Jr.: "According to Hendricks, 'many good church-going folk have been deluded into behaving like modern-day Pharisees and Sadducees when they think they're really being good Christians.' Unwittingly, Hendricks says, these apparent Christians have actually become 'like the false prophets of Ba'al.'" Kurtz also quotes the Rev. Jeremiah Wright: "How do I tell my children about the African Jesus who is not the guy they see in the picture of the blond-haired, blue-eyed guy in their Bible or the figment of white supremacists [sic] imagination that they see in Mel Gibson's movies?"[20]


Black liberation theology is big into playing up the narrative of oppressor/suppressed and the idea of privilege along with social justice. Where have we seen those ideas coming to the front lately? Who is our president and where did he spend 20 years going to church?



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:54 AM
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What is far more scary is that whilst there are enough non believers who will NEVER be swayed by whatever a religious person is saying, there are enough brainless people who will be.

I say brainless because most people who suddenly start following a religion are of a certain type that I come to recognise. It is always people who have never read anything about religions. They have no idea about history or background. They are often impulsive and just 'suddenly' turn religious. You can see uninformed idiots joining isis every day. Most have no clue about the religion, they are in for other reasons.

In christianity, I have often seen people join, who had shown many other fleeting interest before, in other things/groups they desperately wanted to belong to.

Then you get those who suffer from OCD or anxiety, who find some kind of order and safety in religion. Others become religious after a knock on the head [true this, I worked with one].

However NONE of them could possibly have read and understood anything scientific beforehand. If they had [especially the understanding bit], it would be impossible to go back and suddenly believe in the bible.

It is these people, who suddenly find something at their level of understanding [the bible] and they think they are experts and want others to join. Often not because they want to share the feeling of 'feeling good' but because the scriptures demand this.

Unfortunately, the Dunning Kruger effect stops them from understanding that there are people who can see through it all and can't be swayed, never mind how often the scriptures are quoted.




The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is. Dunning and Kruger attributed this bias to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their own ineptitude and evaluate their own ability accurately. Their research also suggests corollaries: highly skilled individuals may underestimate their relative competence and may erroneously assume that tasks which are easy for them are also easy for others.[1]




It's akin to try to tell me at my age that Father christmas IS real. Too late, I KNOW he isn't and I know why he possibly couldn't, unless I unlearn everything I know you won't be able to persuade me different. UNless of course you'll find him and I can see for myself.

Now back to OP.

The simple fact that there are so many believers who can so easily HATE other humans is direct evidence for what I sad above. They have NOT understood their own religion...at all. And that's why I called them brainless.

Those believers who actually understand on the deepest level what religion is all about are those that believe in a higher being but have cut themselves off from organised religion.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:54 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
But I've noticed that over the last few years the voice of the non-believers and the realists is starting to get drowned out by the Christian group and other religious groups.

This surprises me, as an assessment of ATS. From my experience of the site, the Christian group does not seem large enough to do any drowning. Those who hate religion seem to be holding their own well enough.

I discover, further down the post, that your real issue is with the on-site popularity of Trump. That's a different question, you know. Some of us religious folk are not even American.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:03 AM
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I have noticed that this site seems to be (at least these days) overwhelmingly conservative and ripe with religious fanatics. I also find it interesting if not purely coincidental that it seems as if these right wing conservative types constitute the majority of membership here. What I'm afraid of is that sharing both the belief in a mystical sky fairy and having a conspiratol mindset may both be symptoms of extreme gullibility. If you think about it though it kind of makes sense that it would be people that still hold on to antiquated religious doctrine that are also paranoid and think that everything is a conspiracy and shadows are out to get them, I mean the devil is outside waiting. I don't know but I may have to hang up my CT hat soon because I don't want to be lumped in with those loonies.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Some of us religious folks who do live in America really aren't that fond Trump. The sad thing is that I find myself defending things that involve him, not because I actually am all-in in support of him but because I have a sense of fairness.

And just like there are those pro-Trump people who support him out of all proportion to reality, there are also those people who hate him in the same way.

And I'm not sure what it is, but this year, I just haven't had the same passion I've had in past election cycles. I still enjoy sparring over politics, but it's just not the same all-encompassing thing it used to be.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
I have noticed that this site seems to be (at least these days) overwhelmingly conservative and ripe with religious fanatics. I also find it interesting if not purely coincidental that it seems as if these right wing conservative types constitute the majority of membership here. What I'm afraid of is that sharing both the belief in a mystical sky fairy and having a conspiratol mindset may both be symptoms of extreme gullibility. If you think about it though it kind of makes sense that it would be people that still hold on to antiquated religious doctrine that are also paranoid and think that everything is a conspiracy and shadows are out to get them, I mean the devil is outside waiting. I don't know but I may have to hang up my CT hat soon because I don't want to be lumped in with those loonies.


So you would prefer an echo chamber?

Having people of different viewpoints means that people will disagree.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Oh I'm totally cool with diversity just a point of observation is all. I also don't care what a person believes in so long as whatever that belief is does not affect me and they do not attempt to force their views on me. Oh you believe in God or religious doctrine...thats cool but do not expect me to adhere to the "rules" that you adhere to because guess what I don't believe in them so they hold no power over me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again if your religious or spiritual beliefs help you to be the best person you can possibly be then by all means go for it but check the self righteousness and hate speech at the door.

Note to add: I think it is relevant to note that I am neither left wing or right wing, I'm more of a Libertarian really. All mainstream politicians are crooks and establishment cronies left or right puppets can be be bought.
edit on 15-5-2016 by RainbowPhoenix because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: RainbowPhoenix
I have noticed that this site seems to be (at least these days) overwhelmingly conservative and ripe with religious fanatics. I also find it interesting if not purely coincidental that it seems as if these right wing conservative types constitute the majority of membership here. What I'm afraid of is that sharing both the belief in a mystical sky fairy and having a conspiratol mindset may both be symptoms of extreme gullibility. If you think about it though it kind of makes sense that it would be people that still hold on to antiquated religious doctrine that are also paranoid and think that everything is a conspiracy and shadows are out to get them, I mean the devil is outside waiting. I don't know but I may have to hang up my CT hat soon because I don't want to be lumped in with those loonies.


So you would prefer an echo chamber?

Having people of different viewpoints means that people will disagree.


Unless it's all right wing, Christian, white people bashing, then left wingers think it's racist and close minded.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:36 AM
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a reply to: RainbowPhoenix

Here's the thing I've observed:

I make no bones about my faith, but I generally keep it the appropriate places: Religion, Religious Conspiracy, Dreams, Chitchat, etc.

I don't usually make a practice of bringing it up in other places unless it's already brought up or the discussion demands it (explaining why a Christian might be uncomfortable participating in a gay wedding ceremony from a spiritual perspective). However, because people know my faith and know that I trend toward conservo/libertarian viewpoints, I often get accused of bringing my religion into things anyhow whether I've actually brought it up or not. It's like they think the only reason I am making an argument is because faith, duh!

It was like when we were disagreeing with a former friend of ours over a preferred topic of the left at the time, and he came back at us finally and said, "This would just be so much easier if you would just admit you hate gays!"

We do not and never have hated anyone, not gays or transgenders, but he had decided we did, and simply assumed this to be true and that we would just not admit it and that every argument we made was simply an excuse to avoid saying so. It gave us the impression that he wasn't even thinking about what we were saying because he was looking at "blah, blah, blah ..." and actually seeing, "WE HATE GAYS" instead which was never there."

Yeah, well, that's along way to say I feel like some people do this with knowledge of my faith.

They simply see, "blah, blah, blah," and instead are really reading, "BECAUSE GOD SAID," with everything I attempt to type. It is enormously frustrating and unproductive.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:42 AM
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Maybe 'Religious Fundamentalism' is on the rise because the elite love keeping the peasants under control via Divide and Conquer.

So as the elite now have to put their rigged Book of Revelation into play, they have to control the minds of people via visions and dreams to manifest their ideals.

Skeptics need to ask themselves; if the Book is a pack of lies to keep the masses under control, why are the atheist elite condemning this entire planet to total destruction when they force the 7 Year Tribulation down every-ones throat ?



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
But I've noticed that over the last few years the voice of the non-believers and the realists is starting to get drowned out by the Christian group and other religious groups.

This surprises me, as an assessment of ATS. From my experience of the site, the Christian group does not seem large enough to do any drowning. Those who hate religion seem to be holding their own well enough.

I discover, further down the post, that your real issue is with the on-site popularity of Trump. That's a different question, you know. Some of us religious folk are not even American.

Well I guess it always looks worse from the other side. Both sides always seem to think the other is overtaking the other. However I agree with other posters saying that it's important to have opposing points of view and so I don't necessarily want to see religion die off all together, but I think it's valid to be concerned about the hatred and violence that religious beliefs can lead to, and it's important not to let that get out of hand.
edit on 15/5/2016 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder


People just need to think for themselves more often, and rely less on advice from thousands of years ago.

How to behave towards each other is sound advice from any era. The moral compass still points towards the Good Pole.

How to worship is been corrupted away from spiritual truth to religious dogma. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You are so right, this is intolerable
These religious nut bags need to have their throats slit and everyone should just act like they do, kill them dogs

But all joking aside, Stalin, pol pot, Mao, emperor of Japan those people like the guy in Korea, all atheists, all killed millions, all fundamentalists to no religion but secular thought

Are you sure you are not following their example?



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Guten Morgen-

It is "Erection Season" that is when YANG takes over both sexes and "Division" is the wanted affect. I type 'erection' because there really isn't an 'election' where ThePeople actually have a say.. i.e. Prom Queen where they actually count the votes; When Castle Black elected Jon Snow as 'Laird/Lord Commander' in 'Game Of Thrones' the folks voted and those votes counted; We've had both parties headquarters being quoted in THEIR media, in which They run, tell The People, that our votes don't really matter.. Yet instead of being United; We are divided, just what THEY want. So We're playing along the script.

This also brings in the Worship = War Ship. Rep vs. Dem; Chris†ian™ vs. Islam™ vs. Judaism™; Ford ™ vs. Chevy™

I got this from ATS™ a long time ago and don't know who typed it originally but it nails the Brad in 1 fell swoop. ***(If this is Your work please notify Me so I can add Your name as the author)



Worship equals War Ship.
It is disguised as "worship" but it is truly War Ship. Yes, get that initial giggle out and continue reading My words, as 'worshipping' is the biggest reason for wars.
Those men who build languages for MASSES to think in, are very versed in metaphysical natures.
When You pray to something that You do not know is truly there, You join the 'War Ship'. You worship something You don't know of and cannot see. You divide Yourself from Yourself and everyone around You.
Well in this language We call this "Blind Faith" Now when You have many factions worshipping, just different names that are man made, now there is 'division', the opposite of being WHOLE.
Now You've entered the 'War Ship' You clash with those who pray to the SAME CONCEPT under different names (Gods have no identity, just bogus names Man made up) This is inferior mentality.
Even though they are all human, all came from the SAME SOURCE, all are 5-based beings (think pentagram geometry)
One becomes concrete in what they worship, they judge and demonize those not praying to the same NAME.
Now You have war/division.
ISIS is defending it's concepts because the ONLY power those who join the War Ship have is physical chaos to those who oppose. Internally their people are weak and are not worthy to ascend to their internal potentials.
STOP worshipping and start accepting ALL, no matter the name they worship and if Your 'TRUTH' needs to be pushed then how TRUE is it really?
Truth needs no book, no doctrine, no dogma, no heirarchy. Truth stands on it's own, the rest is just pushing to compete with Truth and that is falsehood.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 08:01 AM
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Also, most of the true religious fundies aren't going to be here, and if they are, they aren't going to last long.

In their own ways, they are as intolerant of you as you want to be of them. They simply don't tend to come here so you see that. A true religious fundy would be attempting to proselytize, and there is a big difference between simply explaining a point of faith and attempting to actively convert someone. We've had a few come here, and they don't last long.

As for flat earth stuff, it's simply the new hotness. It used to be electric universe theory. It's just another conspiracy theory IMO. You don't like it because it has religious connotations where electric universe didn't, and it does attract religious folks. I haven't really paid attention to it honestly. I don't care, just like I tend to avoid chemtrail stuff.



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