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I'm against socialism, apparently I'm an idiot. Ask me nothing.

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posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Most would consider self reliance to be a commendable trait. One that few people have the luxury of fully exploring due to poor financial situations and the overall state of the economy. Being almost retired, I imagine you grew up in a time when the advent of self reliance was more readily accessible. Nowadays even a post secondary education doesn't garantee a lucrative or even successful career.

And as has already been stated, socialism is a very broad term. Perhaps so broad that it had lost its intended meaning through the fog of political correctness. The point is, there is a severe maldistribution of wealth in your country and the world at large. Call it socialism or something else. Either way, serious changes need to be made in terms of corporate greed and the centralizion of their power. Everyone deserves a fair chance, not just those born during a more stable time or into wealthy families.




posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Fishy




His general point stands. No one grows rich by themselves. It takes a lot of people's work to give value to Trumps money or to build his physical fortune / properties.


But they wouldn't work if Trump didn't employ them.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: Gh0stwalker




Not exactly sure what your query is... the point is they're not paying their fair share.


My point is that they often are. Compare the amount of taxes the 1% pays to the rest. It's simple.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

And Trump wouldn't be anywhere if he didn't receive a "small loan of a million dollars"...



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: Gh0stwalker

You mean if his family didn't take serious steps to generate enough wealth to pass onto their children.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

What about all the offshore tax havens? The Panama papers, Swiss bank... have you been following any of this? You seem quite eager to defend the status quo. Though with a name like "The Tory" I guess I shouldn't be surprised.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 05:57 PM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Wealth is created by the entire population,

No it isn't.


Yes, it is. Even the bum in the street consumes and therefore enriches others. And the fact that he or she does not work is irrelevant: nor does the multi-millionaire.


Someone else has to make something available for the bum in the street.

Therefore your dream is shattered.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:00 PM
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a reply to: Gh0stwalker

I love the status quo, and I will defend it, rather than have it torn from the hands of the unborn by people who do not know how to use it.

If the taxes weren't so high the wealth wouldn't leave the country.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

His father with affiliations with the KKK and his Grandfather who procured his wealth through distributing booze and prostitution, that family?



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

And how have you used it? Considering it seems to have worked so well for you unlike the innumerable masses...



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Gh0stwalker




His father with affiliations with the KKK and his Grandfather who procured his wealth through distributing booze and prostitution, that family?


I suppose your family were all saints.


And how have you used it? Considering it seems to have worked so well for you unlike the innumerable masses...


With a little planning and effort, I was able to accomplish most of what I wanted to.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: TheTory

Actually the majority of my family heritage, the Irish, were subjected to one of the worst slave trades in history. Though you don't hear about that too often, do you?
edit on 15 5 2016 by Gh0stwalker because: (no reason given)

edit on 15 5 2016 by Gh0stwalker because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:28 PM
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originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Fishy




His general point stands. No one grows rich by themselves. It takes a lot of people's work to give value to Trumps money or to build his physical fortune / properties.


But they wouldn't work if Trump didn't employ them.


That's an assumption. Mere conjecture. At most, they would not work in the current system if Trump had not employed them.

Additionally, Trump had the money to employ them because some banks created it out nothing and lent it to him or to someone or some business who lent it to him or bought stock in his company or something like that.

Or he inherited some of the money. I don't know. I'm not a Trumpasseur. I hardly know anything about the man except he wears a toupee, he's filthy rich and he's likely the Republican candidate for POTUS this year.

I presume you know that when banks issue a loan - to someone like Trump for example - they create new money in the process, which did not exist before.

And, through this process, they redistribute wealth and purchasing power in the economy and society, through the Cantillon effect. From the people who get the new money last to the ones who get it first (Trump).

Anyway, the issue is that you (and most people for that matter) view money as an enabler whereas most of the time it's actually an inhibitor, a throttle on economic activity. And private property, especially over means of production, is an inhibitor as well.

You see, without money, there can be no commerce or economic activity. Even though all the prerequisites are there :

1. raw materials.

2. energy sources, energy reserves.

3. industrial base.

5. technological base.

6. infrastructure (transportation, energy, communication).

7. people who meet the skill and/or knowledge and/or experience and/or intelligence requirements and are willing to work, at least for a living. Some may be willing to work for free in their chosen profession but they must ask for money in order to survive and support their family in the current socio-economic system, predicated on the labour for income model, private property and arbitrary privilege (like issuing money out of nothing and loaning it out at interest - legally).

However, if there is no money, nothing happens. Despite all of the prerequisites above being there.

And despite the fact that creating new money is, for all intents and purposes nowadays, free to the issuer. They just type the money in on a keyboard in a bank and presto! the money magically poofs into existence through the magic of accounting and legal fraud.

So there is no good reason, real reason at all why money should be scarce or why there shouldn't be enough money to do the things that need doing in society.

It's just a matter of us choosing, collectively - as a society, to be evil, masochistic twerps.

Money is, therefore - through its arbitrary requirement for any sort of economic activity and its arbitrary, artificial scarcity, the throttle that's choking and suffocating the economy. Not the air it breathes.

It's actually the artificial lack of money which stops things getting done. Not money which causes things to get done.

Just like it's not the door that you enter a building or room through and it's not thanks to the door that you are granted access to the room or through the wall

But it's the hole in the wall which actually grants you access. The door never let you through. Not once. You were always free to pass, except when the door prevent you. All the door does is prevent. Just like money prevents, through the concomitant need for it and lack of it.

Yet people think it's the door letting them through when it's the other way around. It's the door that's blocking the hole in the wall most of the time and preventing them going through the wall except on relatively rare occasions. And it's the hole in the wall that's actually letting them through.

Yet people get this ass backwards.

So it is with money as well. People think money is the hole in the wall. When it's really the door in the hole.
edit on 15-5-2016 by Fishy because: corrections



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: TheTory
I love the status quo, and I will defend it, rather than have it torn from the hands of the unborn by people who do not know how to use it.

Every generation of conservatives lives in a status quo different than the previous ones.



If the taxes weren't so high the wealth wouldn't leave the country.

I'd say free trade deals are the major variable there.
edit on 15-5-2016 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:36 PM
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a reply to: Gh0stwalker

I'll agree that the system is screwed up, but giving a screwed up system more money, more power, more authority, is madness.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
I'll agree that the system is screwed up, but giving a screwed up system more money, more power, more authority, is madness.

You're not giving, they are taking, in just the right amounts to keep the pot from boiling over.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Exactly. Which is why a new system needs to be put in its place. One which holds as it's core value "Of the people, by the people, for the people". Unlike the bastardized façade we've been fed generation after generation.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Fishy

Economic activity can still take place without money.

It is more troublesome, trading bundles of wheat for steel or whatever. Still happens.

No economic activity takes place with people who work for food and lodging?

Interesting.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:43 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Gh0stwalker

I'll agree that the system is screwed up, but giving a screwed up system more money, more power, more authority, is madness.


You're not giving it more money. It's giving itself more money. Look at the M1, M2, M3 and any other money supply metric of any currency and you'll see all currencies' money supplies growing geometrically as far back as the graph goes.

What makes you think capitalism (probably crony capitalism to you) needs you to give it money for it to continue to exist?

If it really wants to, it can simply give itself the money it needs. No input required from you or anyone at all.

Anyway, taxes are not giving the system more money. You do not create new money, which didn't exist before, through paying taxes. You're just recirculating already existing money.

The only ones who can give the system more money are banks. They just need you (or anyone else for that matter) to take out a loan to do it, is all.

If you ever took out a bank loan in your life, you gave the system moar moneyz. You also enabled inflation to occur, unless you used the loan for increasing the manufacturing or production capacity of the economy (built a plant or factory, opened a farm, opened a software or intellectual property producing company).

Do you use a credit card? You give the system more money each time you swipe.
edit on 15-5-2016 by Fishy because: corrections



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy




The last few days has been intense here. Not like the usual fun. people have been private messaging me to not post anymore. Apparently my view on socialism is taboo.


That is how you can guage success on here.

Getting hate mail means your doing it right.

Being told not to post means your doing it right.

It means they FEAR your opinions.



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