I was once an atheist.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: PanPiper
a reply to: luthier

Quantum mechanics, we do not know what it is, but it is there..

Thats the same with every human development at its infancy. Same goes for religion. It started out vague and became specific.

Quantum mechanics based expirements have been reproduced as have entanglement and Bell's theory tests. We are just writing the first chapter to a whole branch of physics that exists beyound our senses and requires our mind to surpass our other physical limitations (with the aid of technology).

So yeah it's a bit vague right now in terms of applying layman terms and simple explanations. That doesn't mean it's fantasy. Just look what we did with atomic physics. I doubt you question the bomb.

QM has been well understood for quite some time. It is one of Physics' biggest success stories, with experiment mirroring theory. Dont forget that the transistor works on QM principles and this was developed in late 1940s

My point is that we havent JUST started to gain an insight into QM .

Well when you compare the field of QM to physics as a whole it's definitely the beginning.

We dont know that for sure. Also, i would suggest that we have a fair bit more than an insight into it.

But hey, i could be wrong.

Well you are wrong in terms of being able to produce repeatable physical expirements to prove the models. Like I said the 40's isn't that long ago. Nobody was wearing powdered wigs like Newton's time.

Even computer modelling is great but its a rough draft for a theory.

Just saying we have just begun to create the tools necessary for producing expirements now. Same goes with processing power.

I have been watching Cosmology shift from needing to study astronomy as a primary observation to being able to use lab expirements. Pretty amazing.

A bit of theory and formula exists. It just is beginning to be tested and applied into design compaired to how far the possibilities of discovery and applied engineering are.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: PanPiper
a reply to: luthier

Quantum mechanics, we do not know what it is, but it is there..

Thats the same with every human development at its infancy. Same goes for religion. It started out vague and became specific.

Quantum mechanics based expirements have been reproduced as have entanglement and Bell's theory tests. We are just writing the first chapter to a whole branch of physics that exists beyound our senses and requires our mind to surpass our other physical limitations (with the aid of technology).

So yeah it's a bit vague right now in terms of applying layman terms and simple explanations. That doesn't mean it's fantasy. Just look what we did with atomic physics. I doubt you question the bomb.

QM has been well understood for quite some time. It is one of Physics' biggest success stories, with experiment mirroring theory. Dont forget that the transistor works on QM principles and this was developed in late 1940s

My point is that we havent JUST started to gain an insight into QM .

Well when you compare the field of QM to physics as a whole it's definitely the beginning.

We dont know that for sure. Also, i would suggest that we have a fair bit more than an insight into it.

But hey, i could be wrong.

Well you are wrong in terms of being able to produce repeatable physical expirements to prove the models. Like I said the 40's isn't that long ago. Nobody was wearing powdered wigs like Newton's time.

Even computer modelling is great but its a rough draft for a theory.

Just saying we have just begun to create the tools necessary for producing expirements now. Same goes with processing power.

I have been watching Cosmology shift from needing to study astronomy as a primary observation to being able to use lab expirements. Pretty amazing.

A bit of theory and formula exists. It just is beginning to be tested and applied into design compaired to how far the possibilities of discovery and applied engineering are.

Sorry, what do you mean by your first sentence.? I can think of 2 off the top of my head (and im at work with a 6pm deadline looming) Electron Tunneling and (i cant remember the name) the e surface effect that allows transistors to exist. Both purely QM processes and both repeatable and both being used daily. I'm sure there are far more than those two as well.

If you think im arguing with you that we dont have a huge amount to discover in any branch of physics, you are wrong. I know we do. Im just saying there is a lot we already do know. Ad the 40s might not be that long ago, but its long enough in the realm of physics.

Basically we are arguing the same side of things. I just give our knowledge to date more credit.

originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Parafitt
a reply to: PanPiper

Funny, I was once a christian.

The world touched me, and I then realised, the hand of god is my own.

For a microbe to believe it is God-like, is profound delusion.

You should see what atheists say about people that claim to know the mind of God, or that his hand would turn the Earth to steam lol.

I haven't seen anyone claim to know the mind of God in this thread (except, perhaps, for those who claim to be God). Seeing what isn't there is delusion, too.

But, as one interested in cosmology, it is reasonable to extrapolate from the total mass-energy of the observable universe (4 x 10^69 Joules) that the creator would have a similar or greater mass-energy, the tiniest portion of which would easily vaporize planets.

Also, from the Bible, it was held that for someone to see God's true form, they would be destroyed and totally unmade. This was why God covered himself and only revealed a small part of Himself to Moses on Mount Horeb in Sinai. When Moses returned from the encounter, he terrified the Israelites because his face shone and he had to wear a cover over his head.

originally posted by: donktheclown
a reply to: chr0naut
If the microbe is thinking, it has every right to think it's GOD because it is. There is nothing else and everything is.

God has identified that there is 'other' than Himself (the nature of sin, which is not a created object but a consequence of rejection of God). Who am I to argue?

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Why?

I need to use the emotion of love. The only people I have ever felt the emotion of love that I recognize that way are my husband and my son, so I had to use them. It was clearly the same emotion, but this same emotion eclipsed that love in magnitude in such a way that I cannot even begin to describe. It makes me cry. It still makes me cry to have experienced it and to have lost it.

It in no way diminishes or makes what I feel for my family any less or any less important. In a way, I am thankful for the experience because it confirms that I do indeed love them and love then deeply. And in a day and age when so many search for love, real love I am doubly blessed to have had that experience and to now know beyond doubt that I also have that love on earth with my family.

originally posted by: PanPiper
I was once an atheist, i still hold those values dear. It taught me the value of life and much more than that. The only problem was, my family was raised as Christians.

My family understood that God was love and they were taught the simple words of; " God loves you more in a moment than anyone could in a lifetime ". As for me, without God, well, I became unloved.

In ancient days I would be called an unloved monster that defies cultural norms and ways of society. An unloved being in a world full of love and as an atheist in a family full of devoted Christians, it looked very dark for my future to come.

I learned to walk alone on treacherous paths, where i learned to fight. I thrived in a world where love is a weakness and where loyalty is family. The word love became misplaced and God something forgotten. I saw it as love but it was nothing but fear and that path, well, it ended with despair.

Years passed and still no love insight.. Until one day i stood outside a monastery and was touched by the hand of God. The words i heard;" I will show you love my son" echoed. I never knew i was a soulless being until i was shown a mirror reflection and saw my soul standing outside, knocking and begging me to let him in. I opened the door and the pain was something i could not endure. Each day that passed taught me to love some more.

God gave me a soul, where there was none. I was once an atheist...

I am glad your faith gives you comfort.

By what you've shared, it seems as if you have a few deep-seated issues and are using the idea of god that loves you as a coping mechanism for you. I hope the best for your emotional health and for a time when you aren't in need of a crutch on which you prop yourself.

Derek

a reply to: luthier

It boggles my mind that people assume I discriminate because I have preferences.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: luthier

It boggles my mind that people assume I discriminate because I have preferences.

I wasn't talking about you per sae but since you brought it up I think you discriminate plenty on the boards for superstious reasons. Thats fine. If you believe those things as a preference that's your prerogative. It just doesn't make sense in any way.

a reply to: Viesczy

Not really explaining that love is a cultural behavior we are taught to mimic for the means for survival.. Just did it in a way people can relate to..

And if you did not realize faith gives everyone comfort, including you..

a reply to: PanPiper
Listen dude! I am not sure what your trying to say. Or what this thread was about to begin with. Not like it matters you know. But I thought religious or the Abrahamic religious people or more specifically Christians did not quote on quote believe in evolution.

Were you the guy who said you became a born again new christian to get in line with your families believes and what not? To tell the truth I am not sure, or what your trying to say. But ya! Between those 3 theories you said, one being god, the other being evolution, and the others some random aliens some millions of years ago. I got to say that, well random # happening and aliens sounds much more plausible then the other theories.

But hey! Not like it matters and who cares. Just you know, try to keep the whole religious craziness down to a bit, t'iss the season ya know, generally people start going nutts about now over who knows what, nor do I care. Religious people most of all. Hey why cant you just worship money like the rest of you fellow fellows? It is a more wide spreed religion in fact one at the root of all other religions. And probably more sane.

But hey I think this is ultimately about peoples and there groups more then anything else. You know being an individual may just be the hardest thing to do on this planet. Of all the people walking this planet what 6 or 7 odd billion I would say you can count any actual true individuals on one hand most likely. Which is why I don't advise it, you should totally stick to doing the whole Christianity group religious thing, have you not herd the old saying, the nail that sticks out gets hammered.

And here you are bitching about what some minuscule and insignificant people think of you? So silly no! But ya! Definitely sounds like doing the whole religious thing suits you, and truth told its more on your level, you should stick to it and try not to make any detours or swerve outside your path, it gets kind of rough and bumpy ya know.

But speaking of evolution. Why do you think groups or group thought, ie one of which being religion was created to begin with. Because even with the insanity of it all, what sometimes its a yearly thing, and not to mention the mass death and rituals you all do, create, and participate in as well. But even with all that its still the easier path to walk, most especially in our societies which have been created.

PanPiper is an apt screen name you have chosen for yourself here on this website. And that says more then any of Darwinist books and science has said in his little trips abroad, and bird watching hobbies ever did. Mice following dudes playing a pipe? How silly is that? However its an apt allegory I suppose for the human condition in some respects. But again, its not like it matters.