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Caitlyn Jenner considering ‘de-transitioning’ ‘in the next couple years,’ author claims

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posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Annee

I told you they wouldn't understand. They are too slow. Let them have the time.


I know.

And we keep repeating over and over to the same people.




posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: SisterDelirium

Sorry if I tell you if I don't believe you. And if you were telling the truth you probably met transvestites. That's what it sounds like to me.


No one cares if you believe it or not.

You sound bitter.

And you also sound like you have either not met a trans person, or you're trolling.

#byedeafalien



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:33 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

Actually, in my work and in life, I've met a few of both. One of my kid's instructors was a transitioning male to female...which was well known as fact including name change and the installation of breasts. I've raised my kids to appreciate the person as their instructor and for who they are. Their instructor did a great job with the class. It's not our business the rest of it.

My grandparents had neighbors from Belgium that one was a male living as a female. Which we only knew because they had the same nurse and (pre-hippa rules) she went off about their gender bending quite loudly on a regular basis.

Then in my younger years I spent time in the LGBT community and dated girls, myself. And my one aunt finished out her life in a lesbian relationship living in NYC.

It's my personal experience that there are plenty of nice people there. Still, the impression that I came away with is that it's not a) my scene b) the happiest of roads to travel. As for my opinion, I don't think it's healthy as in the ideal situation for a person...but there are so many factors at play in sexuality and sexual behavior that it's probably for the best people have freedom to live their own lives (rather than have others live it for them). I certainly wouldn't have listened to anyone who told me who to date or associate with...and didn't.

The points where I differ: a) I don't think people should be allowed the freedom to do harm to healthy tissue b) I think people who do not agree with certain lifestyles should be free to disagree in a respectful fashion .

As in, I disagree, but I don't think that in any way negates a transgender persons value as another human being nor do I think it is right to abuse anyone.

Also, it was my perception that this was not a happy outcome I life, but I'd also say that relatively few adult people I've met seem genuinely happy or contented in life...could just be me.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:40 PM
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originally posted by: SisterDelirium

a) I don't think people should be allowed the freedom to do harm to healthy tissue


How is that your business?


b) I think people who do not agree with certain lifestyles should be free to disagree in a respectful fashion .



I have a problem with you not understanding the meaning of Lifestyle.

It makes me question everything else you've said.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: Annee

We're our bodies, our brains, and our experiences. How does it make sense to completely detach from physical reality? By that reasoning a person can be a dog trapped in a human body. Sorry, I'm not going to be taller just because I feel like a tall person, etc.

People who do body modification to look like cats or dragons or vampires or whatever else fall into the same category: people who want to harm their bodies in service of fantasies without a shred of attachment to reality.

The truth is, we have to accept our bodies and live in them. If we're short, tall, black, white, male, female...it's the body we're given. If someone wants to wear a skirt and live life as Sue rather than Sam...OK...but I don't think a doctor with an ethical bone in their body could chop off a healthy penis and call that therapeutic.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: Annee

It's just completely contrary to the idea of "do no harm". There's no changing their mind afterward. Some things don't grow back and doing damage to those parts could cause considerable pain and suffering on a permanent basis. I'm just voicing concern as a fellow human.

How am I not understanding lifestyle? It's a way of living, a community and a subculture. Just because I don't agree with the "born this way" line of thinking doesn't make me a liar. I just don't buy it. My aunt was a hetero and had kids before switching teams. People change. Or am I to assume the whole hetero thing was a 20 year phase? People are complex and choose to live their lives in certain ways for complex reasons. I respect freedom to do so, but I really don't believe people "have no choice" in the matter. Therefore, it's a lifestyle, a way of living, not an entirely hardwired biological accident.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: Annee

We're our bodies, our brains, and our experiences. How does it make sense to completely detach from physical reality? By that reasoning a person can be a dog trapped in a human body. Sorry, I'm not going to be taller just because I feel like a tall person, etc.


You brought dogs into this.

And physical structure.

You haven't a clue what you're talking about, do you?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:29 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I do know what I'm talking about. A male having his penis cut and reshaped into a vagina is mutilating healthy tissue. How is that hard to understand? A biological male who does this will never be a biological female with a womb, childbearing capacity and periods. That biological male can identify, socially, as a female from here to the grave..."she" will still be a biological male and not have the same structure as a biological female. "She" will just have surgically altered (mutilated) parts but none of the physical experiences that make a female a female. That's not being a bigot, that's just reality.

I'm genuinely sorry some people feel the need to pretend to physically be something they aren't. I would never interfere with their need to don a skirt and pumps or identify as whatever suits them, but I really truly believe that doctors who would slice up healthy body parts are in the wrong.

And honestly it's a little silly to argue that people are what they think they are/will themselves to be. That's just absurd.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:41 PM
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originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Annee

I told you they wouldn't understand. They are too slow. Let them have the time.


So because we/they dont agree with you they are slow? mentally handicapped and disabled?

Don't exactly know how to think about that.. especially given its something scientists are still baffled with, there's no clear answer or understanding and obviously people are not allowed their own thoughts and feelings about it.

I apologise, how dare I have my own thoughts on the topic!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea

I'm not so sure that's the case -- that transgender children (and particularly those with suicidal ideations) have received unconditional love and acceptance from their parents. At least not from what I've heard and read. In fact, as I understand it, many have had absolutely horrendous and abusive upbringings. Perhaps most. I cannot say all have. But there is too often a history of physical and/or emotional abuse involved. It's one reason it hurts my heart so much, because I know these kids are hurting and that I can never fully understand their pain, and that they are desperate for something -- anything -- to make that pain go away. To live and love and laugh and play and work and just feel good about themselves and their lives.


Tried all day to stay out of this and probably going to wish I had but Boadicea, you've expressed a somewhat compassionate point of view about children but really have little understanding about transgender children and that makes a big difference.

As to the question of abuse, being forced to live as and be perceived as something you know yourself not to be the very core of your heart and soul in and of itself is abuse. Life hurts. Every interaction is wrong. Every performance of expected gendered behavior an act - a falsehood because these expressions are not who you are to yourself and who you know yourself to be. That's why you hear say some trans people say transitioning allows them to be their "authentic selves".

You really can't conflate other issues and conditions with being transgender or having gender dysphoria. It is its own unique thing. Kids that are transgender are not out searching for "-- anything -- to make that pain go away", it is rather specific and no, you probably won't ever be able to understand it. You can't "love" this away and say you accept your child no matter what and think that will make things all better and this will go away. It doesn't work like that and repressing or denying who your child is to themselves is by default going to create an abusive and hostile environment when all these kids want is to live and love and laugh and play and work and just feel good about themselves and their lives without your complete disregard for their personhood or identity. If you love your children, love them for who THEY are not who you want or think they should be.

I know all about this because it is something I struggled with as a child. I was raised in a good home with good loving parents but some of my very earliest memories in life were of conflict because I was a girl that was expected to be, act like and look like a boy. As I grew older the disparity of who I was and what I was thought to be and expected to be by others grew even more ridiculous and I suffered a great deal because of it. By the time I was 8 or 9, I was already so different than other kids and it was horrible and as much as my parents didn't want to recognize this, it was impossible to deny. I was given love and guidance and support, both professionally and from my family just to be okay with myself but it wasn't enough. I was not a boy and never had been. Fixing this was fundamental to my existence.

Sophomore year in high school, I was savagely attacked and hospitalized for being the same girl I'd always been and known myself forever to be but I looked like neither at the time and it was at this point my folks finally started to get it. When I was 18, they began calling me by my current name and using she, her, hers, etc., because everyone else already was and nothing else made sense. THAT WAS IN 1973. I was pronounced male at birth but grew up to be a girl that has lived my entire adult life as a woman. In spite of the parts, I was never a boy regardless of how people tried to make me be one and I sure as hell have never been a man so chew on that for a while.

And... sex reassignment surgery is anything but "mutilation", it is corrective and in my case fixed a disfiguring, unwanted and unused defect of birth that caused nothing but sh!t in my life as long and as far back as I remember. This surgery allowed me to live normally, happily and productively and have a healthy and satisfying sex life and marriage. If only it hadn't taken close to 15 years for my parents to really understand, if they had listened and believed me when I was 5 I wouldn't have spent the better part of my childhood outside looking in and not fully present for.

You folks can conjecture all you want and spread half-truths and misconceptions and myth but this something I know more about than anyone else on this site and in the name of information and awareness will discuss if approached respectfully. Attack me, infer that I am mentally ill or confused somehow or that I have "mutilated" myself, then that conversation isn't going to go so well.

And to SisterDelirium, I was born this way and am not a part of some subculture or community "lifestyle" any more than you or anyone else here is. I'm your average neighbor next door, your co-worker, the person at the supermarket and no one has any idea of how I was born.

If I sound a bit defensive or even angry, who wouldn't be reading some of the crap I read here. I do my best to let this ignorance roll off my back and do spend a lot of time trying to bring facts and information to the board about these issues but guess what? I'm human and it does get to me from time to time especially when dealing with close-minded willful ignorance here that so many seem to choose as a lifestyle.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:21 PM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop

Don't exactly know how to think about that.. especially given its something scientists are still baffled with, there's no clear answer or understanding and obviously people are not allowed their own thoughts and feelings about it.

I apologise, how dare I have my own thoughts on the topic!


Just a question.

If you are not transgender, do not have Gender Dysphoria, are not dealing with a child (or close person) who is Gender Dysphoria - - - - why is it OK for you to have thoughts and feelings about it - - - - that do not correlate with what transgenders say themselves and what the medical/scientific communities direction of understanding is?

What I say is what I have learned directly from transgenders and reading recommended information sites.

I don't understand reaching in other directions.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:27 PM
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originally posted by: SisterDelirium
. . . never be a biological female with a womb, childbearing capacity and periods.


End of this discussion.

Let me guess. You are religious.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:30 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Because i have met and lived with people who changed their sex and like i said they all had very qwerky personalities. I've spent nearly a year with a person who was on his ''year waiting period'' the doctors forced him to have before they would do the operation.

Secondly, when people are emotional and mentally unstable they do drastic things. They are hard to talk with to understand. Just because you believe them doesn't mean anything

I say it again, there are very RARE (you know what that word means?) cases where people were born with the wrong sexual organs. But in majority of the cases the people wanting sex changes are doing it because of emotional or mental illness.

You dont have to agree with me, but just because you think differently does not make my opinion wrong!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: SisterDelirium
a reply to: Annee

I do know what I'm talking about. A male having his penis cut and reshaped into a vagina is mutilating healthy tissue. How is that hard to understand? A biological male who does this will never be a biological female with a womb, childbearing capacity and periods. That biological male can identify, socially, as a female from here to the grave..."she" will still be a biological male and not have the same structure as a biological female. "She" will just have surgically altered (mutilated) parts but none of the physical experiences that make a female a female. That's not being a bigot, that's just reality.

I'm genuinely sorry some people feel the need to pretend to physically be something they aren't. I would never interfere with their need to don a skirt and pumps or identify as whatever suits them, but I really truly believe that doctors who would slice up healthy body parts are in the wrong.

And honestly it's a little silly to argue that people are what they think they are/will themselves to be. That's just absurd.


Umm actually.... within 10 yrs transgenders will have working GROWN vaginas.Dont believe it? google search it.The only thing that would need tweaking is the DNA a little. Also MOST transgenders ALREADY KNOW THEY WILL NOT BE BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE OR MALE. I don tknow of any who claim to be genitically the SEX they change to. (caps for emphasis not yelling so dont go there)



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
. . . never be a biological female with a womb, childbearing capacity and periods.


End of this discussion.

Let me guess. You are religious.


that's the kind of ignorance that causes discussions to go pear shaped - all because you dont agree!

its a sad state of affairs!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: Agit8dChop

Its not considered mental illness though.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:35 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

and why is that? why can something not be considered a mental illness?

I think - its because we are so precious and emotionally unbalanced. people want everything, cannot handle criticism, if something can offend someone then it will.

People are too scared to call it what it is.. they'd rather come up excuses why a man born a man is not unstable when he wants to cut his bits off, recreate them surgically, take buckets of hormones and chemicals to be something he is not, was not and never was going to be.

instead we call it nature, instead of illness!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:37 PM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: SisterDelirium
. . . never be a biological female with a womb, childbearing capacity and periods.


End of this discussion.

Let me guess. You are religious.


that's the kind of ignorance that causes discussions to go pear shaped - all because you dont agree!

its a sad state of affairs!


Well, lets see if religion has anything to do with her thinking.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:38 PM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: Annee

I know people like to create funny named ''syndromes'' and mental states so everything fits in a nice little box that can be explained with theoretical idea's.

But the human body is made a very specific way for the concept of creation. There are a few very very very rare and unique cases where nature probably got it wrong ( and im talking extremely rare )

But when people like Bruce Jenner decide on a whim they want to be the opposite sex than go through with all kinds of chemical transitions and operations.. its a mental illness plain and simple.


So women who cant have children are not really women right?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:39 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

did i say that? women who want children but cannot has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion - but i like your attempt at a smear!

women who cannot have children are women.. maybe its something with their body, their partners sperm, luck.. who knows!
edit on 12/5/16 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)




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