Muhamed was a child molester.

a reply to: Thetan

You said ethics is a societal construct and that's nonsense. Torturing babies is unethical, regardless of anyone's considerations on the matter.

Torturing babies does not facilitate the functioning of a society.
Please provide an example of a society in which the torturing of babies is/was acceptable.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
Girls this same age (and younger) are still pushed into arranged marriages today - this goes well beyond Wahhabism. Look at India for instance, female child brides (to adult men) is common practice among many families and in many of these cases it's horrific what abuse can and has ensued - and that's a mainly Hindu nation.

IMO, there is no lower act of disgusting filth than an adult usurping the innocence of a child.

It seems in all cultures and religions one thing remains a constant:

Parents wanting to offload their kids as soon as possible.

You nicked the tip of the iceberg there, but got the main point across.

Too many corruptions exist any every single religion. They are ALL perverted in several ways. I don't just mean sexually with children, but rather in general.

Adults in religion never practice what they preach, and I literally mean never. It is sad the way these people can continue a subjugating lie that masses believe in. It's also scary to think so many actually believe in it.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: Thetan
Moral relativism is false.

Are you able to back up that statement using sound reasoning? Do you believe in moral absolutism by any chance?

It's very easy to judge the actions of past historical figures through a modern mindset that is not conditioned by the same culture, social norms and views on morality as the subject was at the time. But by doing so, you are ignoring the context of the behaviour. Ignoring context is one of the most counter-productive decisions you can make when attempting to deny ignorance.

Torturing babies is unethical no matter what place and time you do it. Moral relativism is false.

originally posted by: Thetan

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: Thetan
Moral relativism is false.

Are you able to back up that statement using sound reasoning? Do you believe in moral absolutism by any chance?

It's very easy to judge the actions of past historical figures through a modern mindset that is not conditioned by the same culture, social norms and views on morality as the subject was at the time. But by doing so, you are ignoring the context of the behaviour. Ignoring context is one of the most counter-productive decisions you can make when attempting to deny ignorance.

Torturing babies is unethical no matter what place and time you do it. Moral relativism is false.

Exactly why no society ever has thought torturing babies to be ethical.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Thetan

You said ethics is a societal construct and that's nonsense. Torturing babies is unethical, regardless of anyone's considerations on the matter.

Torturing babies does not facilitate the functioning of a society.
Please provide an example of a society in which the torturing of babies is/was acceptable.

It doesn't seem to me that we're on the same page here, Phage. So let me clarify. When you say "ethics is a societal construct," do you mean that whatever society deems to be ethical, is ethical? That's the impression I got. Please correct me if I misunderstood your position.

originally posted by: ntech
It was 800 AD and the middle east. It simply wasn't illegal or immoral at the time. To judge Mohammad on what he did back then by today's standards is wrong. And the premise of the argument in question is invalid. He should be judged by the standards of the time.

Sure, but for his followers to keep the practice and using his teachings as an excuse is not acceptable in todays standards. Therefore his practice back in ye days of old are considered peddo because his strict followers adhere to his standards from those days. Not just regarding child brides but also his teachings regarding violence to non believers.

Now, regarding your statement that it wasn't considered immoral at that time perhaps your may justify or qualify your answer with simply this, "The teachings of Mohammed were accepted in those days but are not accepted by todays moral standards."

Kind reagrds,

Bally

a reply to: Thetan

So let me clarify. When you say "ethics is a societal construct," do you mean that whatever society deems to be ethical is ethical?

I've stated so explicitly. Was I unclear?
Yes. Within that society. By definition.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
The Christian god shagged a 10-11 year old Mary...

How crude. Actually there is not evidence of this. There is speculation that she may have been betrothed at 12 as per customs of the time, but her age when she was pregnant is unknown.

I think its disgusting.

But lets be fair here.....anyone from a European background cant really point fingers seeing as at the same point in history our royalty was doing the same thing.

The middle ages were just full of pedophiles.

a reply to: crazyewok

The middle ages were just full of pedophiles.

And witch burners.
Ethical?

originally posted by: Thetan
Torturing babies is unethical no matter what place and time you do it. Moral relativism is false.

Define "unethical".

Where does this standard of ethical behaviour you reference stem from?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Thetan
Please provide an example of a society in which the torturing of babies is/was acceptable.

Some may consider female genital mutilation to be "torture" and there are whole (ignorant) societies/cultures that think this is OK. Can you really imagine what people did in less enlightened times?!

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: paraphi
That's a good point.
How about male circumcision? Ethical?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: crazyewok

The middle ages were just full of pedophiles.

And witch burners.
Ethical?

Nope not ethical.

Disgusting.


But it happend across the world not just in arab world.
So we cant pretend the west had some sort of hsitorical high ground.

a reply to: bally001

It's the accepted historical age of Mary, it's what they did in that era.

Gross today? yes, but what's good for the god seemed to be good for the prophet .

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Thetan

So let me clarify. When you say "ethics is a societal construct," do you mean that whatever society deems to be ethical is ethical?

I've stated so explicitly. Was I unclear?
Yes. Within that society. By definition.

No need to display hostility my friend, I'm merely trying to understand. So when the Aztecs sacrificed people and deemed that that was ethical, was it?

Ps: I re read it and it may have not been hostile. So hard to read tones over text, I shouldn't assume.

a reply to: Thetan
I'm not hostile. Irritated might be more accurate. How many times do you want me to make the same point?

By the standards of the Maya and Aztecs performing human sacrifice it was not only ethical, it was actually sacred and necessary.

What may or may not be relevant in this matter,
is the question of lifespan.

If the average age upon death was around 40 yrs.
An 11yr. old Bride would sound less outrageous.

Just a thought ... 😎

a reply to: paraphi

You are right customs for Jewish people of the time would have seen them enter into adulthood at 12...
After this time they could be married...
Then you must also agree God did not have sex with her if she gave birth as a Virgin...
But you would also have to consider the traveling she did to visit Elizabeth as one example... And also her mature conversations... Scholars tend to agree considering such things she was likely 13 to 15 years old...But one thing they do agree upon is that she was physically mentally and emotionally mature... And none of them say God had sex with her...

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: crazyewok

The middle ages were just full of pedophiles.

And witch burners.
Ethical?

Nope not ethical.

Disgusting.


But it happend across the world not just in arab world.
So we cant pretend the west had some sort of hsitorical high ground.

Cept, in the west, as far as I can discern, we don't burn witches anymore . But the teachings of middle eastern religion are still followed by those who believe in Muhammad.

So what I see here are those bringing up the past, "Yeah, but we did the same back in days of old so there's an excuse for the behaviour nowadays."

No excuse, now.

Kind regards,

Bally.