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Muhamed was a child molester.

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posted on May, 14 2016 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Annee

Nor do I understand the "religion" but I'm not so sure they do either. I was shocked years ago when I made a comment to the extent of "why don't their religious leaders condemn them" and found out...there is no higher structure to Islam. There is no leader nor generals. I'm not even sure they can distinguish between the hardliners and the moderate. They (from my small experience) seem to all "believe" the same thing. The difference is that one side lives the belief while the moderates kind of ignore those less-than-nice beliefs.

But in the end, my opinion is that the root of the religion is the same. The moderate also believe we are infidels...they just don't decide to try to kill us.

And don't get me wrong...I completely understand that a white, male in the USA can't understand a Muslim male half way across the world. Their history, heritage and the rules there may seem alien and wrong to me, but unless I'm part of the group, I can't judge them by my experience.


OK, but IMO, people are people. They will interpret their beliefs according to how they actually feel about life/culture, etc.

I was Mormon for 5 years. Because of how they structure - - - you live the belief 24/7. That's why it seems cultish, and you really don't associate that much with non-Mormons - - - because it doesn't fit how you live your life.

Wonderful experience BTW.

Islam, I think, might be similar. It's more then a religious belief - - its a way of life - - - its a culture.

However, even living within the "culture", you are still an individual. You can, and do, think for yourself. You think about your belief and how it fits into the modern world.

Evolving in society seems to correlate with higher education. Those evolving in modern cities, and education - - also tend to evolve in how they see their religion, IMO.

There are many Mormons who choose to stay and fight from within their church for LGBT rights. Many more have officially resigned, leaving the church.

So, I think its individuals who evolve and move us forward - - - even from within their religion.

Why the Fundamental South still hangs on is kind of a mystery, but they are losing their grip. Maybe its genetic, as some of the original founders of Southern Baptist were direct descendants of the Puritans.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that's kind of rambling. There's family visiting, running around behind me. Hope you're good at putting puzzles together. I think you'll understand what I'm saying.




posted on May, 14 2016 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Annee

I think I understand your point. But at the same time, it really isn't important to the woman buried up to her neck being pelted with stones if your belief is what you are doing...or if you are simply doing it despite your beliefs and because you decided to follow the expectations of the masses.

That is part of the problem with Islam (for example). In the USA we see religion and country as two different things. In many Islamic religious us they are the same. The country dictates and is dictated to by the religion. They are inseparable. And "over there", the old ways are mostly the only way. Funny how Iraq is probably the most different in that area. Their words follows Islam, but there is a distinct difference in church and state.

Enjoy your family...ATS is no replacement for THAT engagement


See ya!



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Annee

I think I understand your point. But at the same time, it really isn't important to the woman buried up to her neck being pelted with stones if your belief is what you are doing...or if you are simply doing it despite your beliefs and because you decided to follow the expectations of the masses.


As I understand it, they have a lot of areas that are Tribal.

Those areas are where these ancient practices mostly occur.

There's places in the US, "people" just don't go. These places pretty much make their own rules. Every once in awhile we'll hear something in the media.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:14 PM
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a reply to: Annee

BIGFOOT????



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
a reply to: Annee

BIGFOOT????


LOL



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:39 PM
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originally posted by: Phage

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: yuppa




IF they had not married when they were the age they were back then We would not be having this conversation. humanity would be extinct.



No history of the Sumerians worshiping Allah, or molesting their children.

Marriage is molestation?



All of you need to stop with the word games. You don't marry OR have sex with children the age of 9. Ask all the questions you want, blow smoke up the @ss of everyone, but at the end of the day, if you find a 9 year old girl sexually attractive....you're a monster. Simple as that. Married people have sex, so YES....IT IS!
Even without laws, there is a growing (budding) process that children must go through before reaching biological womanhood. All of this "if she bleeds, she can breed" crap, is justification for a sick mind. I am having a hard time believing that so many respected posters such as yourself, are actually arguing against me on this one. I may not be liked here too much, because I speak the truth, and sometimes the truth is not popular, but this is just ridiculous. Someone back there wanted me banned for life from ATS...why? Because I don't believe in robbing the innocent of their youth? Because I don't agree with taking advantage of a child? Some people on here really make me wonder.
edit on 14-5-2016 by IlluminatiTechnician because: Grammar



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: yuppa




IF they had not married when they were the age they were back then We would not be having this conversation. humanity would be extinct.



No history of the Sumerians worshiping Allah, or molesting their children.


Plenty of them marrying ones considered under age today though. because GASP!! People only lived to around 30 at the latest back then.


No, people didn't only live until 30 "back then". There's a huge difference between the "average life expectancy" of a demographic and how old people were when they expired. Because if poor sanitation and nearly non existent medical care by today's standards, infant mortality rates were astronomically higher than they are in the 21st century. And not just be western standards where people are living on average until their late 70's. I'm addition to infant mortality rates, only a fraction of children that survived birth made it to the age of 20. Those who made it to 20 increased their life expectancy to 45-50. Those who survived war and disease and made it to the ripe old age of 30 could expect to make it to their late 50's to mid 60's and people living until their 70's wasn't anywhere near as improbable as you make it sound.



People used to mature faster than they do today so youre just flat wrong on this being child abuse.


Are you saying that humans of the 7th century reached sexual maturity at an earlier age than they do today? If so,it's not quite true. In the 21st century the average age for reaching sexual maturity in both genders decreased by an average of 1 year when compared to the 19th century but there was a spike from the early 18th through the 19th centuries where the average age of sexual maturity rose. The end result is that the average age at which girls not just begin puberty but reach menarche, is roughly the same as during the 7th century in Arabia.

For the sake of context, some historical averages for when females reached menarche-
Ancient Rome 12-14
Medieval Europe 12-14
Medieval Mid East 12-13

Nineteenth century
Manchester 1840's
Working class women 15.7
Upper class women 14.6
London Hospital Patients 15.5
Germany 1869 15.7
Scotland. 1870 15.6-16.6

USA Late 19th century 12-14
USA 1905 14-15.7


For a little further context, the age of menarche was when the females in all of the Semitic cultures during the 7th century, including the Jews, were married off during this period in history.

With that said, I do not condone any adult male in the 21st century (particularly so when there is a gap in age that would make the male as old as, or older than, the girls own father) who hides behind centuries or millennia old scriptural interpretation as a rationale for engaging in sexual relations with a girl who is barely into puberty. I'm also not in a position to pass judgement on people who lived nearly a millennia and a half ago who lived under extremely different cultural and societal norms as I view their history through the rose colored lenses of a privileged society. The past is just that and it a done and over with. The best we can hope for is to learn from their errors and move our society as a whole, forward in a more positive direction.


www.mum.org...
edit on 14-5-2016 by peter vlar because: Adding a citation.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:44 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
a reply to: yuppa




IF they had not married when they were the age they were back then We would not be having this conversation. humanity would be extinct.



No history of the Sumerians worshiping Allah, or molesting their children.



Plenty of them marrying ones considered under age today though. because GASP!! People only lived to around 30 at the latest back then. People used to mature faster than they do today so youre just flat wrong on this being child abuse.



So, you're saying that there were no women back in those days that were of obvious age? I mean, it's not a stretch of the imagination to discern between a 20 something year old, and a 9 year old...her we are again with the word play and the smoke and mirrors. I am guessing that people are people, no matter what generation they lived in, and there were most likely pedophiles back then as well.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:46 PM
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originally posted by: mulberry4000
hi no Muhammad was not a child molester , it was not in 800 AD it was in the early 600s AD. At the time it was accepted for young girls to marry as soon as they hit puppetry. Also it was accepted that people got married at a young age, it was a social contract a form of welfare benefit, without it girls could of died. In Syria now women as young as 13 are getting married due to the civil war. It is not wide spread and the age of consent is 17 years old, but one cannot judge a society by western standards let alone something that happened over one thousand and five hundred and odd years ago. The who society accepted it then and it was common in Europe.

Do not forget there was no medical service like we have today, no social services, no government, police or education system, sure there was some form of social protection but this was done a tribe basis and if you were kicked out of your tribe that it your fair game to any one, that means you could of been killed and it would of been lawful. Life was dam hard then and if you did not grow fast, you would be in big danger and you needed to be aware of what is going from a young age. People matured faster, they had to. To use it is inconceivable that they married off 12 year old to 50 year old me, but that was the norm, nothing pedo in it. Why did they do that? One the guy has live a long life this shows he has strength resilience, to live that long he was have accrued wealth ( the poor die quick), in other words he had the means to look after her etc, this is no small thing as having a wife is expensive and in them days money or food was not like today, too get it you have either kill it or pay for it, no supermarkets then .

Children brides are rare in the Muslim world, but it happens but in those societies they have a different view on what is a child and what is not. These societies are not stupid they know sex with a child can damage them so, they make sure the person being married is not having sex until the time is right etc. ie they stay with parents till the right age. However war comes into play and instability things slip and people have to marry off or die.

Guys you need to study history and its methodology, Muhammad did what he did a very very very long time ago, just look how much society has changed in the last 25 years let lone one hundred. I will tell you straight there is film threads about the destruction of Britain by nuclear war, it put the country beyond the stone age, this means things would revert back to a time poorer than Muhammad's period and girls would be marrying off as soon as they hit puberty because fathers and mothers would not be able to feed the, assuming their would be a society but the movie said it would continue but in a much reduce state, but i hope you get my point. All the concerns you have, are modern constructs made on the soft sofa of western civilisation, poorer societies do not have these luxuries.

In other words you cannot judge a different society, from a different historical period by your own civilisation views, and you cannot judge another society by them same values today.

www.muslim-marriage-guide.com...

www.independent.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

wikiislam.net...

www.newadvent.org...



Who cares what year it was...he is a child molester....because 9 years old IS A CHILD. No matter what age, 9 has always been a child. Again, there were women OF AGE living back in those days too you know.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

You don't marry OR have sex with children the age of 9.


You honestly believe she got her menstrual cycle at age 9?




edit on 14-5-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
Again, there were women OF AGE living back in those days too you know.


A Woman of Age was first menstrual cycle.

Chronological age is not relevant.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: rollanotherone
a reply to: MysterX

So then. Can we stop sending aid to these countries that practice this crap?


ahem! (refugees)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:31 PM
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a reply to: MysterX

And europe at the time as well, not just the middle east for the rest you are ight



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:33 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Yes ayaisah said it and so did others at the time, if yo have any evidence to suggest other wise then present it. Islamic sources say she did. Aysiaha her self had no problems with it nor her father or rest of her family. Incidentally her father was Abu burkr and he is buried in the same place as muahmmand.

Not that is matters my cousin reached puberty at 10 years old. She was big girl ie not fat but mature as well. My daughter entered puberty at 11 yeard old or slightly younger she is 13 now
edit on 14-5-2016 by mulberry4000 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: Annee
yes that was the easiest way to say she was a woman same as a man. Life was short etc. For example at the battle of the trench or after it captives were forced to show if they had reached puberty, ie pubic hair, if they did not have it, no death etc. It is a separate debate about the rights of wrongs on the massacre after the battle of the trench. The point is people used puberty as a sign of man hood. So a man who had gone through puberty at 12 was considered a man with all its rights and responsibilities and a boy who had not gone threw puberty was spared etc. Age was not a factor. My self i did not get pass through puberty till 14 years old

Please read M,. Watt books on the life on Muhammad, Ibn ishaq, First Muslim by lesely hazelton, martin lings, and robert Spencer's books. I have given you books for and opposite view of Muhammad, so make your own mind, but i understand history and reject spencer's methodology and evidence, each to their own
edit on 14-5-2016 by mulberry4000 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:48 PM
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a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

speaking of fables Aesop was more of a prophet than any of those worshiped. In essence thats all religion was to begin with before it evolved out of animism... twisted from lessons to fear.

Society of course doesnt need that to push fear on people, all tey have to do is make an enemy out of something the majority is ignorant of then prey on that fear by going go sickem boys and girls or go buy it boys and girls.

I read a statistic that said 97% of people are just the exact kinda people to fall for such and follow in a herd mentality losing all focus ration logic or reason or basically objectivity.

Is it any wonder people have told me psst hey stop several times... its ok to exploit and use the herd or masses because they are stupid, naieve, or gullible? No its not ok peoples own psychology is being used against them in order to control and make them that way, and its the establishment goal thats entrenched to keep it that way. It is not a sustainable way of living for people or the people or the planet... and the public of the world at large do not deserve to be continually subjected to it.

I havent seen it mentioned but teres a book due out soon called Senator X I read a lengthy review and its an insider piece of a senators view point about how dumb the masses are and hes told how to vote before he hits the floor and if he doesnt vote that way people get pissed because its corruption and cliques and most of the time he doesnt even read the bills as so much focus is on the money and re-elections nothing ever gets done its like a social club with corporate deals and votes for things already chosen and its either yea or nay... be nice if someone would make a thread on that... I cant comp issues... but its pretty damning of the entire process by all appearance and he seemed pretty disillusioned that it is teams pandering for that corporate money and no one working for the people or even care.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: mulberry4000
a reply to: Annee

Yes ayaisah said it and so did others at the time, if yo have any evidence to suggest other wise then present it. Islamic sources say she did. Aysiaha her self had no problems with it nor her father or rest of her family. Incidentally her father was Abu burkr and he is buried in the same place as muahmmand.

Not that is matters my cousin reached puberty at 10 years old. She was big girl ie not fat but mature as well. My daughter entered puberty at 11 yeard old or slightly younger she is 13 now


I know. Most are just using it to slam Islam. They don't care about facts.

We don't know how accurate of record keepers they were. We don't know if people just guest their ages as some cultures do. We don't know if they started counting years after the first year, as some cultures do.

As one article I read pointed out - - he married her at 6, then consummated the marriage when she was 9. If he was a pedophile, why wait 3 years?

She was probably older then 9 by our method of counting birth years. But, the culture was first menstrual.

And, yes I do know some girls do start their menstrual early. The youngest known girl to give birth was only 5.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:51 PM
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originally posted by: mulberry4000

Please read M,. Watt books on the life on Muhammad, Ibn ishaq, First Muslim by lesely hazelton, martin lings, and robert Spencer's books. I have given you books for and opposite view of Muhammad, so make your own mind, but i understand history and reject spencer's methodology and evidence, each to their own


Thanks BTW.

I have a real interest in actual facts on any subject.

So, much nonsense and opinions - - - and authors trying to discredit, etc.

Robert Spencer from SPLC:


About Robert Spencer He insists, despite his lack of academic training in Islam, that the religion is inherently violent and that radical jihadists who commit acts of terror are simply following its dictates. His writing was cited dozens of times in a manifesto written by the Norwegian terrorist Anders Breivik. Spencer was banned from the United Kingdom as an extremist in July 2013.

edit on 14-5-2016 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 09:04 PM
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Also what some people are doing on here is imposing a 21st century view of the world onto the 7th century , they are making the same mistake as Muslims who believe they can impose a 7th century view of the world onto the 21st century. People who advocate this are both sides of the same coin and wrong. In other words they have the same goals but opposite ends of the spectrum



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: mulberry4000
Also what some people are doing on here is imposing a 21st century view of the world onto the 7th century , they are making the same mistake as Muslims who believe they can impose a 7th century view of the world onto the 21st century. People who advocate this are both sides of the same coin and wrong. In other words they have the same goals but opposite ends of the spectrum


I totally agree.

But, to think/claim this "tribal" culture only happens in Islam is naive.

The only difference is, in Muslim countries you can be open about it. Here in the states its hidden.



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