16 West Point cadets cadets in raised-fist photo won't be punished

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Oh yeah, you mean the socialists, communists, and anarchists who in the summer of 1936 in Spain went on a rampage and murdered tens of thousands of people, including almost 7,000 clergy, and other people for being religious, or capitalists, including landowners in one summer?... yeah MystikMushroom, they were so pacifists right?...

Red Terror (Spain)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Red Terror in Spain (Spanish: Terror Rojo)[3] is the name given by historians to various acts of violence committed from 1936 until the end of the Spanish Civil War "by sections of nearly all the leftist groups".[4][5] News of the rightist military coup in 1936 unleashed a social revolutionary response, and no republican region escaped revolutionary and anticlerical violence - though in the Basque Country this was minimal.[6] The violence consisted of the killing of tens of thousands of people (including 6,832(7) members of the Catholic clergy, the vast majority in the summer of 1936 in the wake of the military coup), as well as attacks on landowners, industrialists, and politicians, and the desecration and burning of monasteries and churches....

en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah those pacifists raising the fists, I mean who would think these people want to murder anyone who happens to disagree with their left-wing ideology... Right MystikMushroom?...

You realize they were fighting the right, who did worse? The white terror killed hundreds of thousands.

You're essentially making an argument that WW2 was wrong because Dresden was an atrocity.

a reply to: yeahright

Oh right, you mean like the shots taken by some left-wing media of Trump waving his hand, and they stopped the video to take a picture of him apparently doing a NAZI(national socialist) salute when he was only waving his hand?... That kind of shot yeahright?... roflmao

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay

You realize they were fighting the right, who did worse? The white terror killed hundreds of thousands.

You're essentially making an argument that WW2 was wrong because Dresden was an atrocity.

The white terror was a response to the left-wing violence. The majority of Spaniards were Catholics and they were afraid of the left, more so when they murdered so many people in just 3 months. The red terror, and the left-wing murders of innocent civilians, including the almost 7,000 of the clergy facilitated the emergence of Francisco Franco, who used a heavy hand to stop the left from murdering more people.

The White terror started from 17 July 1936 to 1 April 1939. If Franco hadn't taken over, and used such measures Spain would have turned into another China with millions murdered by the left.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Franco had friends to help him. Like the Condor Legion.

They went on to murder quite a few million elsewhere in Europe.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You seem to be unnaturally fixated on these young ladies being photographed with their hands as high as their shoulders. I'm the one suggesting it means nothing beyond what they say it means. You're the one seeing underlying meaning in everything, like those folks who see all the Illuminati symbolism on CD cases and boxes of fruit.

Ordinarily, I'd blink past it without another thought. But I get a little agitated when some deluded individuals want to go out of their way to degrade some people who have agreed to put themselves in position to make a maximum sacrifice for the rest of us. I've seen you bloviate here enough over the past 12 years to know how you are, and as a member, I generally ignore it.

But this goes beyond disrespectful, right up to reprehensible. So laugh that off.

originally posted by: draoicht
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Franco had friends to help him. Like the Condor Legion.

They went on to murder quite a few million elsewhere in Europe.

Yes, unfortunately Franco did also use heavy handed tactics to suppress the left, including getting help from Germany.
But if the left had won, Spain would have been just another China, or even Germany. The Germans were after all national socialists, the one thing they shared with Franco was nationalism, but nationalism can be found both in the left and the right. Gandhi was originally a national socialist who later turned pacifist.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay

You realize they were fighting the right, who did worse? The white terror killed hundreds of thousands.

You're essentially making an argument that WW2 was wrong because Dresden was an atrocity.

The white terror was a response to the left-wing violence. The majority of Spaniards were Catholics and they were afraid of the left, more so when they murdered so many people in just 3 months. The red terror, and the left-wing murders of innocent civilians, including the almost 7,000 of the clergy facilitated the emergence of Francisco Franco, who used a heavy hand to stop the left from murdering more people.

The White terror started from 17 July 1936 to 1 April 1939. If Franco hadn't taken over, and used such measures Spain would have turned into another China with millions murdered by the left.

Hah, Franco the Nazi ally was a real hero. Your entire post is conjecture. "This would have happened". Nah, you're just BSing at that point.

It's also factually incorrect that the left started it. It's the exact opposite, the right wing generals rebelled against a popularly elected left.

a reply to: yeahright

No....that is too kind a word...but based on T&C I will be good.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Carpet bombing of civilian populations is one example of his "heavy handed" approach.

If the UK and France had not sat on their hands the European part of WW2 might have been prevented.

If anything this should show all of you how ludicrous and RACIST the entire country is. Everyone looks at color...or 'gender indetity' or preference. It is not about the person anymore.....

Trump Rally - 15 thousand people of all races raise their hands to pledge to him...it is reporting in the MSM as a HItler salute
West Point - a dozen or so young African Americans stand with your fists raised like recent BLM and BPP/NBPP rallies..nothing

Do you see the double standard and how race is being used to split the country? How f'n dumb are any of you to think that the current administration has not set back race relations 50 years?

I don't really care what these girls in the picture. It is about perception. 15 girls out of uniform expressing pride in race...no problem. 15 girls in uniform expressing pride in race...well, if they were white it would be a HuffPost headline and all of you against the exposure of this picture know it.....

a reply to: yeahright

I am not fixated, just stating facts. Notice how their hands are parallel similar to or

It is you who try to dismiss this by posting a photo of another politician who does have a raised fist, but he is not using the same type of sign used by the left.

Besides, it was from West Point that one of the recent left-wing papers antagonizing everyone who leans to the right in politics was published, and they claim being a conservative in general is a threat to the nation and draws a link between "mainstream conservatives and the violent far right"...

West Point center cites dangers of ‘far right’ in U.S.
...
The West Point center typically focuses reports on al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists attempting to gain power in Asia, the Middle East and Africa through violence.

But its latest study turns inward and paints a broad brush of people it considers “far right.”
...
The report also draws a link between the mainstream conservative movement and the violent “far right,” and describes liberals as “future oriented” and conservatives as living in the past.

“While liberal worldviews are future- or progressive -oriented, conservative perspectives are more past-oriented, and in general, are interested in preserving the status quo.” the report says. “The far right represents a more extreme version of conservatism, as its political vision is usually justified by the aspiration to restore or preserve values and practices that are part of the idealized historical heritage of the nation or ethnic community.”

The report adds: “While far-right groups’ ideology is designed to exclude minorities and foreigners, the liberal-democratic system is designed to emphasize civil rights, minority rights and the balance of power.”
...

www.washingtontimes.com...

But hey, apparently you are claiming I am making this up?...

BTW, don't tell me, your political affiliation is to the left? So, of course there is no bias whatsoever in your statements about my views.

One more thing, before you take my comments out of context, i am neither saying you are a communist, nor socialist. Not sure how far to the left you are, however, this sign has been taken up by leftist groups who seem to have no idea what that sign is actually all about.

a reply to: matafuchs

Who said anything that the photo is an expression of pride in their race? That's your interpretation. That's the thing about photographs and stories. They can be interpreted to mean something they are not.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Err, first, there seems to be one white woman(actually two white women) and a hispanic woman that is not black in the picture the op posted. This is not about race, but rather about ideology that even West Point seems to be instilling on military cadets these days.

originally posted by: yeahright
...
Ordinarily, I'd blink past it without another thought. But I get a little agitated when some deluded individuals want to go out of their way to degrade some people who have agreed to put themselves in position to make a maximum sacrifice for the rest of us. I've seen you bloviate here enough over the past 12 years to know how you are, and as a member, I generally ignore it.

But this goes beyond disrespectful, right up to reprehensible. So laugh that off.

BTW, after your little bloviated tantrum has passed, care to actually point out what exactly is disrespectful and reprehensible about my statements?... And please, try to make a concise argument instead of relying on knee-jerk and emotional responses.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

So where are the white cadets?

Right here - again:



And again, coming from the cadets themselves, this is a common practice at the Academy, raising a victory fist. White cadets do it. They were never reviled in the media as "White Panthers," were they? Now they academy is admitting non-whites, we see that when they give the same fist pump, they are reviled as racists and Black Panthers.

Ready to eat crow yet? Or do you have more racist connotations to hurl?

Alice Cooper = Black Panther Party

You see, West Point did NOT agree with what they did and they will have to undergo additional

"While the inquiry did not find that these cadets violated a policy or regulation, it did determine that they demonstrated a lapse of awareness in how symbols and gestures can be misinterpreted and cause division," Caslen wrote in a letter Tuesday to the Corps of Cadets. "The impact of this photo, regardless of its intent, is evident. It is unfortunate that this perception brought attention to our Alma Mater for all the wrong reasons."

They also knew it could be wrong. Do we want a leader of the Armed Forces to make a decision to do something even though they feel it is wrong? Is that not what they just spent 4 years doing was becoming a leader and not a follower?

Based on the inquiry, some of the cadets involved knew what they were doing could prove incendiary. Two cadets reportedly proposed the "raised fist" stance during the shoot and two others immediately expressed concern, according to the investigator. They asked, "Are we really doing this?" A cadet defended the photo, telling the other women, "This isn't an [equal opportunity] violation and we won't get in trouble for it." The cadet's name is redacted in the report. There were nine photos taken during the shoot and three poses, referred to as "Serious," "Raised Fist" and "Silly" in the report.

and they ruined a tradition for the future cadets....

The investigator recommended no delays to the women's May 21 graduation, provided "they display an understanding of how their actions as Cadets and future Officers were inappropriate, at the conclusion of the instruction."

This controversy could complicate the "Old Corps" photo tradition.

"I recommend all future 'Old Corps' photographs be reviewed by the West Point public affairs office prior to release to any Cadet or outside agency," the investigator wrote in his memo.

a reply to: matafuchs

this image reminds me quite a bit of this story;

a reply to: matafuchs

Wrong again - West Point defended the pics and the tradition.

From ArmyTimes.com: West Point leader defends female cadets in fist-raising photo

The controversial photo of 16 black female cadets raising their fists was just one of dozens of images the women took as part of a long-held West Point tradition, according to Brenda Sue Fulton, a 1980 West Point grad who chairs the U.S. Military Academy’s Board of Visitors.

The women were posing for an “Old Corps photo,” Fulton told Army Times, “a long-held tradition at the Academy.”

“Different teams and groups get together on their own to mimic the high-collar, ultra-serious, photos of 19th century cadets,” she explained of the tradition.

“When I spent time with these cadets and heard them tell their stories and laugh and joke with each other, there’s no doubt in my mind how much they love West Point, they love the Army and they support each other.”

But would Fulton, a former Army captain and long-time diversity advocate for the military, have tweeted the raised-fist photo?

“I would not have re-tweeted the raised-fist photo because I am well aware that our culture views a black fist very differently from a white fist,” she said. “I knew it was their expression of pride and unity, but I am old enough to know that it would be interpreted negatively by many white observers. Unfortunately, in their youth and exuberance, it appears they didn’t stop to think that it might have any political context, or any meaning other than their own feeling of triumph.”

Repeat: "I would not have re-tweeted the raised-fist photo because I am well aware that our culture views a black fist very differently from a white fist"

Exactly right. White cadets made the same pose: no controversy from the white community. Black cadets make the raised fist pose: firestorm of racist accusations.

Get over it, idiots. The only thing racist in that photo is what YOU personally bring to it. MOST people (whites and non-whites) see it, no problem. White Racists see it and immediately claim they are Black Panther wannabees.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

What ideology is that? And how is west point instilling the ideology?