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UFO'S - ATS Already has the truth or does it ?

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posted on May, 11 2016 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: wmd_2008

Ugh.


It's a beaten dead horse. I know for a fact that aliens exist and some have been visiting Earth. The evidence is there. The issue is the war on the human mind and our social, publically accepted paradigm.some want to bubble us in and create a isolation scenario....




posted on May, 12 2016 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
, now I do believe there has to be life out there it's a numbers thing but that has two problems the shear vastness of space and because of that the time implications.



What's this? Another skeptic that thinks advanced civilisations would be restricted by primitive human technology.

You're right in that as far as we understand things, faster than light travel is impossible. You should remember that in the 1920's the best minds on earth told us it would be impossible to travel to the moon.

There's no way a species that could be a billion years more advanced than us won't of worked out how to travel the cosmos at ease.

Another point u made was about people carrying cameras with them to capture evidence and make money out of it. Pffftt, so what? Everyone could say that it was fake! The Turkish ufo clips from 2008 are some of the best that haven't been debunked yet, but guess what, still people don't wanna believe.

The only way most people will accept this phenomenon is if the government announces that it's true on the evening news, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon. I actually find it quiet sad really, that people are waiting for the truth from our governments, who specialise in lies, WTF!!!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: jeep3r

Cargo units of WWII and discovery of remote populations in deep South American jungle give one pause to reflect on the hazards of revealing our 'higher' technology and 'civilization' to 'Primitive' Cultures. In the case of Cargo cults it seems to have disrupted their culture entirely, they built replicas of planes, worship the 'Gods' that flew them and the materials they brought. Hopeless really, after wwii the gods left and the materials they brought dried up, leaving them destitute for their return from 'heaven'. In the case of remote cultures in the Jungles of South America, keeping our distance from them prevents them catching a plethora of diseases which we have immunity for but they would be decimated by, intentionally or not.

Given those two disasters, god worship and decimation by the common flu, I get why other 'races' from beyond earth might want to 'keep their distance'.

Who knows how many 'common' flu bugs from all their interstellar travels they may have contracted and would want to prevent spreading to us?

Cargo Cults, WWII

Images of uncontacted villages

Edit: For emphasis…

Their 'annunaki' moment
edit on 12-5-2016 by intrptr because: edit:



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 02:38 AM
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a reply to: jamespond

You are making lots of assumptions a race surviving a billion years and finding us during our short existence in the universe as for the Turkish videos


Plenty of threads on here about them and they are debunked



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 03:46 AM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: jamespond

You are making lots of assumptions a race surviving a billion years and finding us during our short existence in the universe as for the Turkish videos


Plenty of threads on here about them and they are debunked



When I say "could" that's not me making an assumption, it's me saying it's possible, which it is! Besides, a species wouldn't need to be a billion years more advanced than us to know we're here. Our own scientists would have a good idea if life exists on another planet by studying the make up of it's atmosphere. This is something they can do quite easily already, and this planet has been advertising those signs for millions of years. But even if an alien species were a thousand years infront of us it would be unimaginable, I'm just saying that the likelihood is it would be more, and they certainly wouldn't be bound by the same restrictions of our own technology.

The Turkish videos haven't been debunked, just like rendelsham forest, westall and dozens of other cases haven't. Some people don't believe them, that's fair enough, but it doesn't make them debunked.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 04:41 AM
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originally posted by: OneGoal
It's a beaten dead horse. I know for a fact that aliens exist and some have been visiting Earth.


No, you don't know for a fact, but you raise the obvious problem with many of these instances...
You have no actual evidence for the belief you have, but you consider what you've seen to be evidence and therefore it's a "fact" to you that they have visited us.

Your reasoning process is fundamentally flawed.

We know, for a FACT, that YouTube videos can be faked.
We know, for a FACT, that the US government (and others) develops technology in secret.
We know, for a FACT, that the Germans were working on the cutting edge of science during WW2.
We know, for a FACT, that the US claimed thousands of German scientists after WW2.
We know, for a FACT, that the US used those scientists to create NASA and its achievements.
We know, for a FACT, that the US, Britain and Russia occupied numerous Nazi sites post WW2.
We know, for a FACT, that people create hoaxes, and sometimes just because they can.
We know, for a FACT, that people who want desperately to believe in something convince themselves.
We know, for a FACT, that anyone can create a blog and present a story, and that people will believe it, because they so desperately want to.

These are things we know to be facts, and given that there is no equivalent list of facts to support the belief that Aliens have visited us any rational and logical train of thought would have to lead to the conclusion that many UFO's are actually ours.


originally posted by: OneGoal
The evidence is there. The issue is the war on the human mind and our social, publically accepted paradigm.some want to bubble us in and create a isolation scenario....


No, some just form their opinions based on all available evidence. Stories are NOT evidence. YouTube videos are NOT evidence. Bloggers with their rambling grasping at straws is NOT evidence.

Believe me, I think it would fascinating and incredibly exciting to believe that an Alien race has been here, or is here, or that there's something remarkable going on beyond what I currently believe, but the EVIDENCE is not there no matter how many people desperately want it to be.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 04:51 AM
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originally posted by: jamespond
I actually find it quiet sad really, that people are waiting for the truth from our governments, who specialise in lies, WTF!!!


And yet here you are completely ignoring the fact that manufacturing an Alien/UFO story would be a perfect cover for researching technological advancements in flight capabilities and defensive measures during a Nuclear war.

How is it that on the one hand you accept that the government lies to the public all the time to keep its secrets, when it suits your argument, but you completely detach this belief from your narrative when it perfectly suits a cover for advanced flight technology?

And lets not forget that while you claim others are making assumptions to not believe, you are doing exactly the same to believe.
You suggest that it's ridiculous to apply Human limitations on technology to another race from another planet, while you yourself apply Human notions of exploration on them.
Why do you assume that any Alien race would want to come here?
Why do you assume that any Alien race would be incapable of hiding themselves in our skies?
Why do you assume that any Alien race would pick out our little rock in this sea of billions of other little rocks as one to visit?

You complain that others are putting Human limitations on this imagined Alien race, but you are doing exactly the same in reverse, because you want it to be true.

Given that there are billions upon billions of potentially inhabitable worlds out there, why would an advanced Alien race choose us to visit? Presumably there are other far more advanced worlds out there where they might actually see greater benefits?

If we're going to use probability and plausible process, then we would have to concede that we're pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Mathematically speaking there should be billions of inhabited worlds out there, and we would be the runt of the litter in comparison to any Alien race able to travel here. We would be pretty insignificant to potentially billions of other worlds, and yet you imagine that this vastly more advanced race would choose to come to this rock instead of visiting far more advanced worlds out there with more in common with them!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: jamespond
I actually find it quiet sad really, that people are waiting for the truth from our governments, who specialise in lies, WTF!!!


And yet here you are completely ignoring the fact that manufacturing an Alien/UFO story would be a perfect cover for researching technological advancements in flight capabilities and defensive measures during a Nuclear war.

How is it that on the one hand you accept that the government lies to the public all the time to keep its secrets, when it suits your argument, but you completely detach this belief from your narrative when it perfectly suits a cover for advanced flight technology?



Well actually my assumption there does have a basis. You see while WWII was in full swing, the pilots that fought in it were reporting unknown objects that were flying alongside them in the skies, they called these things foo fighters. If this had been secret technology, as you say, then if it belonged to the allies they would of used it. Likewise, if it had been the Nazi's they would of used it. So this is where the advanced government technology argument starts to fall apart, there are reports of unknown objects in the sky all the way through Human history.


And lets not forget that while you claim others are making assumptions to not believe, you are doing exactly the same to believe.



Well I'm confident that my assumptions are based on quiet valid points, on the other hand yours don't seem very well thought out, but hey I suppose that's a matter of opinion.


You suggest that it's ridiculous to apply Human limitations on technology to another race from another planet, while you yourself apply Human notions of exploration on them.
Why do you assume that any Alien race would want to come here?


I see your point here, and I don't know what they're doing here or why they'd want to observe us, I have some ideas but they're based on my own thoughts. But like you say I can't pretend to know what drives a species I know nothing about. However, the fact that they're are hundreds of unexplained sightings, some very credible makes me believe that we are being observed. Project blue book, that would come up with any reason to explain something away, still had 701 sightings that even they couldn't explain.


Why do you assume that any Alien race would be incapable of hiding themselves in our skies?


I didn't realise I did. The fact that there have been so many eye witness reports would suggest they're not interested in hiding their activities from us.


Why do you assume that any Alien race would pick out our little rock in this sea of billions of other little rocks as one to visit?


Who's to say that there not? I'm not arguing about what might be happening elsewhere in the galaxy, I'm here to argue that there is an extraterrestrial element to the UFO sightings on this planet.


You complain that others are putting Human limitations on this imagined Alien race, but you are doing exactly the same in reverse, because you want it to be true.


Not quite, but nice try. I've simply studied the evidence and have come to the conclusion that not all of it is lies.


Given that there are billions upon billions of potentially inhabitable worlds out there, why would an advanced Alien race choose us to visit? Presumably there are other far more advanced worlds out there where they might actually see greater benefits?


You tell me. The evidence that we're being observed is there, the government doesn't admit so some people don't believe it, I can't help that. As I pointed out before the secret government technology argument quickly falls apart under closer scrutiny. So you tell me genius, what is it???


If we're going to use probability and plausible process, then we would have to concede that we're pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Mathematically speaking there should be billions of inhabited worlds out there, and we would be the runt of the litter in comparison to any Alien race able to travel here. We would be pretty insignificant to potentially billions of other worlds, and yet you imagine that this vastly more advanced race would choose to come to this rock instead of visiting far more advanced worlds out there with more in common with them!


The only person making ridiculous assumptions here is you my friend. As I said before, I've looked at the evidence and I believe there's something to it. I haven't stated that I know why they're here because that would be stupid, how could anyone possibly even guess that??

It makes no difference though, the evidence that we're being observed by something is very strong. If you're happy with the governments claims that there's nothing too it that's fine, I'm sure it'll help you sleep at night. On the other hand I'm not happy with anything the government says, because they've been caught out lying about this subject more than once.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
ATS does have the truth.

At the end of the day we can only reasonably believe what we have strong evidence for.
You mean like the Yukon UFO case? That was cited as some of the best evidence ever because there were so many witnesses who saw it.

Yukon UFO case

The documentary film Best Evidence: Top 10 UFO Sightings lists this "multiple witness sighting in the Yukon" as number eight of the top ten UFO cases of all time. In that film the celebrated "Flying Saucer Physicist" Stanton Friedman says of this case:

"The Yukon case IS emblematic of what a good case should be. I mean, sure, we'd like to have a piece of the craft, we'd like to have the crewmember introduced for dinner. BUT multiple independent witnesses lasting a long time, describing something that's WAY outside the norm, -- there's no way you can make it into a 747, for example [chuckle]. And big, but this was much much bigger than a 747. "


So the Yukon case is strong evidence for something, but what is that something? What does the evidence tell us?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur

Therein lies my meaning. Beyond seeing things in the sky we don't understand, we can only say that there is some unexplainable phenomenon. Basically "something is happening".

We don't have answers to the what, why, and how. Until we do, all we can say is that people see things in the sky.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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Hello,

Ever since I was a young child, I had a thirst to know if there was other life out there -- especially hoping that there'd be intelligent life. It goes without saying, that I fully understand your frustration.
I'm an open minded person, but not so much that I'd let my brain fall out. I've never believed in ghosts or spirits, or people such as mediums and psychics who claim to have made contact. I wasn't completely closed minded to such things, but I just found that sort of thing difficult, too strange, too much like magic.
I don't believe in magic, and tend to believe that everything has a rational scientific explanation, and that would include explaining an afterlife.

For me personally, if someone were to show me a photograph or even amazing video of UAP, I still wouldn't be able to accept that as proof.
There's a huge difference between evidence and proof, as I'm sure you know; but even taken as evidence, if it's not something I was part of, not something I saw or heard, video or sound recordings aren't going to do much for me.

Now, I believe that people do deserve to know what is happening. I've been mulling over this quite a lot, because like everyone here, I too really wanted to know that there's something truly strange going on.
There are however huge implications, and I have a conscience.
People are not ready just yet, and due to this, there needs to be a slow disclosure. I'm perfectly aware that some people will handle it just fine, but even if a mere one percent of the world's population struggle with it, that's a god damn lot of people.
You can easily see the problems for yourself, if you just ask friends and family how they'd feel if they knew there was a ghost in the room watching them.
The reality of the situation is much the same.
If I were to release a small amount of the truth, which would be based on fact, not a theory, and with supporting evidence; most people would completely ignore it, not even reaching the denial stage.
The fact is, there's going to be a massive negative effect if it's not done right, not just on peoples psychological health, but there will be religious issues that could present a serious problem.

Just think about this for a moment; a small group of outsiders try living with a newly discovered tribe. One of the outsiders either carries a disease/accidentally kills one of the members of the tribe/unintentionally does something he didn't realize was considered wrong. What do you think will happen?
Fear and panic spread quickly, and even people who have never followed religion or believed in things such as demons/jinns/spirits, could become easily caught up.

We are in a symbiotic relationship, with an intelligent life form, that shares this planet with us. The science of it, and therefore proof, is extremely complicated.
I am not going to present evidence, because I do not believe at this time it is morally correct to do so.
People have a hard enough time as it is, accepting they have lifeforms living on them in the form of healthy bacteria. People are scared of the unseen.
The only reason I'm writing this here, is because I believe posting it in this way, will not be taken notice of.
I feel some sympathy for people who want the truth, and therefore I've given a small amount of it.

Take care now!



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur

Good link that's the real problem with relying on purely eyewitness reports, what people think they they see may not be what they actually saw.

How many posts have we had with dots on pictures/videos claimed to be ufo's traveling at incredible speeds only to find out that the information on the camera/lens and exif data shows it would be a small object close to the camera.

I will say this again as some people seem to be missing the main point of this thread, we have members that claim regular sightings that could EASILY supply real evidence if there claims are true but when challenged they can never do it.

Now one of those members has been on today and is usually all over ufo threads but not this one



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: wmd_2008
a reply to: jamespond

You are making lots of assumptions a race surviving a billion years and finding us during our short existence in the universe as for the Turkish videos


Plenty of threads on here about them and they are debunked



The only ones debunked were obvious mis-identifications.
Huge crafts have buzzed commercial jets and military planes for decades with the beginning of this no cause for secrecy or denial, until later on when the whole affair became a nuisance to those in power in the military.

To those that have seen craft with entities the issue is a moot point, and it means they are here, have been coming here, and are still coming here for many different reasons, much to the continuing dismay of military insiders and officials.

It's just you, and others who have never seen these things who make bold claims that they aren't here and never were. Who is more believable? witnesses or those who simply don't know sh-t? Do you even know which one of those you are?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: 65536

Well I've been posting similar stuff as this post for 2 years. I have a blog full of it too. Not to mention my take on the plasma theory (a small part of it) was published last month by a famous author.

So I'm not holding back as much as you are

(maybe we should compare notes?)

Kev



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Therein lies my meaning. Beyond seeing things in the sky we don't understand, we can only say that there is some unexplainable phenomenon. Basically "something is happening".
I guess you didn't read the link? "something is happening", yes, in that case we know what it is. Humans are seeing something real, but our perceptions are flawed, and we don't seem to want to admit that but there is a lot of evidence showing that we need more than stories about what we saw, so yes "pics or it didn't happen" may be too harsh, but I think "pics or it didn't happen exactly as you said it happened" is more reasonable. People saw something in the Yukon case, but not what they think they saw.

In a way we've missed the window of opportunity to make good photos because it's now so easy to make good fakes that even photos are not that reliable anymore.


originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
It's just you, and others who have never seen these things who make bold claims that they aren't here and never were. Who is more believable? witnesses or those who simply don't know sh-t? Do you even know which one of those you are?
The scientific approach says no witness is 100% credible and takes known flaws in human perception into account. If someone says it's not happening that's not scientific because you can't prove a negative. So then you're left with people saying "I saw something", which in most cases they probably did, like in the Yukon case. But if you believe that what they perceived is what actually happened you haven't learned the lesson from the Yukon case and similar cases, like this one:

Kiev UFO

Those 4 different drawings of the spaceship look a little different but for those witnesses to conclude that they saw a spaceship is understandable. We know they weren't hallucinating and really saw something, but the problem we have as humans is to say "I know what I saw, case closed, and you didn't see it so you can't debunk my sighting". Well it turns out in this case we know what the witnesses saw, and it was not what they drew in those 4 drawings, and now we know that nobody's personal sighting is "case closed". They can think it is, but anybody who agrees with them is not considering this evidence being posted right here.

a reply to: wmd_2008
Yes there was an abductee posting on ATS who said he was repeatedly being abducted and he had a lot of excuses why he couldn't set up a nannycam to document the abduction. If someone just makes one sighting and it catches them off-guard I can understand that in the past, but today with everyone having their smartphones with them all the time even that excuse is not holding as much water as it used to.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: jamespond




Well actually my assumption there does have a basis. You see while WWII was in full swing, the pilots that fought in it were reporting unknown objects that were flying alongside them in the skies, they called these things foo fighters. If this had been secret technology, as you say, then if it belonged to the allies they would of used it. Likewise, if it had been the Nazi's they would of used it. So this is where the advanced government technology argument starts to fall apart


Or does the advanced government technology argument start to fall apart?

Because there are a number of theories regarding foo fighters that don't subscribe to the "alien" spacecraft theory




When the USAF 415th NFS and British intruder aircraft first encountered the German land-based and launched WNF Feuerball and AEG Kugelwaffen weapons in the skies over occupied France in late 1944 they were simply called "Fire Fighters" due to their intense glow or "burn" in the sky. In the WNF Feuerball this was the chemical burn ring that caused an intense electrostatic field at close proximity to the daylight bombers. With the AEG Kugelwaffen, the glow or burn was considered part of the propulsion system which was suspected of being a mercury-plasma type.

Source : foofighters.greyfalcon.us...



Or another that "foo" was caused by the first airborne radar the H2S system.




..I revisited the sightings (foo fighters) and found that the research astronomers had done during 1939 -1945 fitted. It even explained why foo fighters seemed to take a break during 1943 and then return with a vengeance. The dates of planes and their types, Halifax, Stirling, Lancasters, etc...fitted.

There was also reason to keep foo fighters a secret. If the Nazis knew what was causing them they could target the specific planes, and knockout the few aircraft, carrying the new, precious and experimental H25 AI (Air Interception) radar on board. It seemed clear that the microwaves pumped out from this new radar equipment were creating the foo fighters.The limited equipment even had to be transferred to Coastal Command in 1943 to detect U-boats in the North Atlantic....Powerful microwaves pumped into air...seemed to produce foo at certain wavelengths and powers under the right atmospherice conditions..

The research being carried out by astronomers like Bernard Lovell and Martin Ryle fitted the dates and bombing raids spot on. Smokey Stover was almost right when he said "Where there's foo there's fire."

In fact where there's foo there's radar

Source : Andrew Pike (Scientist) UFO Matrix Magazine : Volume 1 Issue 3





The problem with linking UFOs to aliens is that there is nothing beyond anecdotal evidence to show for it. 'Unknown' doesn't mean anything more than it is unexplained. Unexplained doesn't mean it was anything extra-terrestrial.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: OneGoal
I know for a fact that aliens exist and some have been visiting Earth. The evidence is there.

Do tell.



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: jamespond



That picture above was posted on here by one of the biggest ufo/secret space fleet/bases on the Moon believers and he thought the Turkish videos were not a ufo.

What are the chances of Mog from Zogs ship being the perfect match for part of a cruise ship that sailed in that area.

His words


And I know you don't like the ship idea but don't you find is very odd that if you overlay the UFO onto the bridge of the docked cruise ship that the angle, size and shape just happen to match?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

We have plenty of threads and posts on here to PROVE many haven't got a clue of what they are looking at and once again why are the members on here that could prove that these things are here if they are actually telling the truth not posting the evidence one obvious reason springs to mind



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: wmd_2008


From what I have read on here over the last few years this place should be full of real undeniable evidence or is it populated by fantasists


What would you consider to be undeniable evidence ?

An Alien body ?

A spaceship ?



What exactly would be proof to you ?



Just wondering



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