OKAY. I'm going with Jill Stein if I can't go with Bernie

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: xuenchen

Nah, I've posted them for you, specifically, many times.

No you haven't.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: DBCowboy

Socialism has existed in some form in this country for over a 100 years now. Where have you been?

Yeah, and it's made things worse, incrementally. Yet we still seem to drift towards more.

It helped pull us out of the Great Depression as well as propelled us to our Golden Age in the 40's. You may want to brush up on your history a bit.

The narrative that Socialism is harmful to society is only a recent one too. Back in the day both liberals AND conservatives supported Socialism. Then a bunch of rich people who didn't like paying high taxes for rich people pulled the "trickle down economics" voodoo economics out of thin air and sold it to the Republican party and your bias reflects this.

Completely and utterly false. WWII is what pulled America out of the depression, the Golden Age was in the 50's after victory. I would suggest YOU spend some time learning history.

As for the trickle down economics, After WWII, the US imported many Nazi scientists to gain control of their technology; the downside is we also imported their ideology which has slowly been infecting America to this day. National Socialism.

a reply to: Kali74

Right? It's like,

"No. I will not repeat myself yet again!"

right? I want to say: "You know how to use the internet. Expand your experience with it."

The same stuff - day after day. Over and over. No updates, no (apparent) improved knowledge, no reasonable discussion effort. Just the same crap.

I mean, even the internet has "required/recommended updates" for maximum efficiency.

:/

a reply to: xuenchen

I really have.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Socialism is not freedom.

More government is not freedom.

Dude, freedom is more than small government.

Sure.

Absolutely right.

But freedom is inversely proportional to the size of government.

Okay, and my final entry for now:
I can scarcely and hardly believe how right-wing ATS is at this point. Wow - you guys are amazing...doing the team-bash thing.

It's impressive. Okay, you convinced me. I'm really going now.

Still waiting for some Student Loan solutions from Jill and the Green Party.

There must not be any real platform?



Very disturbing.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: xuenchen

Yes according to Marx, predating Marx and succeeding Marx. No private ownership of the means of production does not mean no property ownership at all.

Some credible quotes would be appreciated.

This is what always gets me, I've actually read Marx, most of these 'socialists' have not.

It is a distinction of private property and personal property. Private property is seized by the government under socialism, so you would no longer own a company, or house for that matter. Personal property would be allowed, so you could have your own toothbrush, clothing, and food.

That is what the socialist means when they say, you would still have property, you get to keep your toothbrush.

a reply to: GodEmperor

Nonsense you can own land, house, vehicles etc... just not the means of production.

a reply to: Kali74

just not the means of production.

Oh, well then....in that case, we can sigh a sigh of relief! Sheeesh!!

You people and your labels. Socialism this, liberty that. Why don't you use your brain to present solutions to our problems instead of crying like babies? Oh it's because you can't. Keep fighting though. That's getting you somewhere...

a reply to: Kali74

Property is considered means of production, you really need to actually study the subject.

It's the FIRST pillar of communism, this is so simple.

1. Abolition of PROPERTY IN LAND and application of all rents of land for public purposes.

The footnote in my Communist Manifesto states- expropriation, not 'abolition'.

Here is the definition of EXPROPRIATION -

Expropriation is the act of taking of privately owned property by a government to be used for the benefit of the public. In the United States, the government has the right to take property through eminent domain.

Do you really want to argue with someone who has ACTUALLY STUDIED the subject?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Quality over quantity... stick with us lady.

I should also clarify, since it seems SOCIALISTS have no understanding of what means of production are.

Means of production -

Land, labor, property, tools, and capital.

That is what the state takes.

It's amazing how many "progressives" are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face

I know I'll get flanked from both sides but it needs to be said

We have too many moon bats here that would hand Trump the Presidency

At least Hillary is for a 12 dollar minimum wage, she supports Obama care and an expanded Medicaid, she opposes voter ID laws and voter suppression, she wouldn't ban a whole religion from entering the US and would welcome Syrian refugees and she wouldn't appoint supreme Court justices that would happily over turn Roe v Wade

a reply to: GodEmperor

Do you?

1. Abolition of PROPERTY IN LAND and application of all rents of land for public purposes.

For public purposes... meaning for means of production. The surrounding context helps a lot, for future reference.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It's impressive. Okay, you convinced me. I'm really going now.

Good luck finding a safe space

a reply to: muse7

I know it upsets you but I can't and won't vote for her, she represents everything I hate in a politician.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: muse7

I know it upsets you but I can't and won't vote for her, she represents everything I hate in a politician.

If she upsets you that much that you're willing to throw rationality out the window and make Trumps path to the white house easier then have at it

Vote for Jill Stein

I'm sure you won't mind having a Conservative supreme Court for the next 20-30 years

a reply to: Kali74

You are absolutely wrong again.

What you are describing is covered under the first part of the 6th pillar.

Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State,....

It is also clarified under the 9th pillar, that you would not own land, but assigned land to live on.

....gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equable distribution of the population over the country

Keep going, you are just proving my points.