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OKAY. I'm going with Jill Stein if I can't go with Bernie

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posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
Socialism and Capitalism are economic models not governance models... either can be authoritarian OR libertarian. What we have right now is an authoritarian government with a capitalist economy that's quite literally bordering corporatism or fascism light if you prefer. The private hands have bought the government.

In my opinion Socialism, as in worker ownership rather than private of the means of production, leads to increased liberty whereas Capitalism leads to more authority. Literally the opposite of what right wingers are brainwashed into believing.


We can't get to a "worker ownership" from where we are. I agree that any type of government can be authoritarian.

But if we have an authoritarian capitalist system, then we're just accepting an authoritarian socialist system with the changes being suggested.




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:06 PM
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Afraid of big Gov.

But would gladly make a new division to take away womens rights.


Hmmmm?




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: xuenchen

Was there some reason you came here? You all know how you are. You come in here, where you clearly can stir up crap, and then when you've thoroughly trashed the place, you have the audacity to blame me for throwing the party.

Always keepin' it classy, aren't ya, xuen?

yup.


I am interested in Jill's detailed plan for the Student Loan problems.

Does she have a detailed plan?

It is a $1.3 trillion problem that is affecting more than 40 million people right now.

I was hoping other members could find something too.

This issue is really a good topic for civil discussion.




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:14 PM
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originally posted by: AlaskanDad
a reply to: queenofswords

The younger generation sees the need for socialism and is not afraid of the word.


Hence the high number of millenials the are backing Sen Sanders.


Look out for those pinko commies, vote for McCarthy, lol's!!!!!!!!!!!


I agree to some extent that the younger generation "sees" a need for something and they are labeling it socialism. Most of them can't string a coherent sentence together, much less evaluate the ramifications of an economic system like that.

Too many millennials are just plain ignorant and ill-equipped psychologically to walk and chew gum at the same time. I do know some, however, that are free thinkers and are still capable (thanks to their parents and grandparents paying attention) of analyzation and evaluation. So, I remain optimistic for America's future.

But, at some point, if the educational system hasn't completely stupefied their reasoning abilities and if the phone-ogling parents haven't completely neglected their parental duties, some will rise up and continue to fight the good fight.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

My wife and I won't be voting for either one of them, effectively throwing the election to Hilary.

So, the Pres race holds no interest for us, but we'll be studying the down ballot races quite carefully.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:27 PM
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but we'll be studying the down ballot races quite carefully.


Well, those do have MORE impact to us, of course.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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One thing I feel is very important is proportional representation which is a part of the Green Parties Platform:



Proportional Representation: Elect legislative bodies by proportional representation where each party has representation in proportion to its total vote.

Preference Voting: Elect single offices by majority preference voting where voters rank candidates in order of preference and votes are distributed according to preferences in instant runoffs until a winner receives a majority of votes.

Public Campaign and Party Financing:Equal public campaign financing and free broadcast media time for all candidates who agree not to use private money. Equal free broadcast media time for party broadcasts. Public financing of parties through matching funds for party dues and small donations up to $300 a year.

Fair Ballot Access: Federal legislation to require each state to enable a new party or any independent candidate to qualify for the ballot through a petition of no greater than 1/10th of 1% of the total vote cast in the district in the last gubernatorial election, with a 10,000 signature maximum.

Eliminate Mandatory Primaries: Allow parties the right to nominate by membership convention instead of state-run primaries.


source



edit on 11-5-2016 by AlaskanDad because: added clarification



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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They are trying to escape the student loan debt they were sold, and they are pissed.


Easy to say, but when I got into mine, the economy had not yet crashed, and I had every reason to expect it would not be difficult to repay with my MBA. I had a good job, was making good money, and even traveled often for my job. After 2008, I was WRONG, so WRONG....

I'm just glad I bought things like appliances, furniture, etc. with cash vs. credit when we had the dough, so at least I didn't have that debt on top of the student loans.

That said though, I work for a living, and pay it back as I can little by little. I'm all for some solution, but until then, I do the only solution I have. That said, I don't expect a handout (or to pay for it with other, hidden taxes either).

Like you said, "rip the band-aid off"....why my vote is the same as yours.

Better the unknown than a known evil. I KNOW what Hillary will do already. She'll do what she's told by the people who bought her. Those on Wall Street, in the Middle East, in China, etc. No thanks.
edit on 11-5-2016 by Gazrok because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: queenofswords

Wow stereotyping a whole generation, to scapegoat your political beliefs.


That's really lame!



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

Good luck on that one. I just don't want to take the risk and have votes funnel away from the best chance of beating that blowhard.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
Too many millennials are just plain ignorant and ill-equipped psychologically to walk and chew gum at the same time. I do know some, however, that are free thinkers and are still capable (thanks to their parents and grandparents paying attention) of analyzation and evaluation. So, I remain optimistic for America's future.


Nice. Contradicted your premise there. Way to prove your whole argument to be illogical and based on stereotypes.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

only if you count the military industrial complex as socialism. The government did buy tons of stuff for the war, that kicked American manufacturing in high gear. Then selling things "made in America" to the countries that got their butt kicked in the war kept the motor going.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:53 PM
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Just throwing my two cents into the mix....

Voting 3rd Party
This time around, I'll be biting the bullet and voting for Trump. However, up until about a month or so ago, I was seriously considering "throwing out" my vote and going third party. The reason? Even if in the immediate future a third party candidate will never be taken seriously, if enough people vote third party it just MIGHT give other people reason to pause and consider them more than background noise.

Socialism/Socialism-lite/Capitalism
I agree with some of ya'll have said about people taking a single word or phrase and extrapolating the heck out of it to paint a picture of either a utopia or hell on Earth.

That being said, forgetting about what people name things, my basic view on life is that I want to be left alone. Like millions of other people, I pay my taxes which is enough to pave roads, keep public elementary and secondary schools open, staff police departments, arm the military and keep the hospitals running. I think that is more than enough. That should essentially be the end of my relationship with the government.

Whatever I can earn beyond meeting those essentials should be mine to do with as I please. Nobody owes me anything and I shouldn't owe anything to anyone else. I donate time/money to causes that I care about and everybody should be free to do the same (or free to not do anything for anyone, if they choose).

If someone wants to attend a pricey private university that is their choice and should be none of my business. If they can want to take out a loan to pay for their schooling that is their choice and should be none of my business as well (just like paying back that loan that they agreed to is none of my business). It's not a secret that to attend many universities costs a small fortune so it is up to each individual to figure out what they want to do. My wife opted for an affordable school and worked full time, attended classes part time and although it took a while, she finished school with ZERO debt. Only spending what one can afford.... fascinating concept, aint it?

I understand the desire to make everyone "equal" in every conceivable way but that is just a daydream. We are all born into different circumstances and with different talents and abilities. If some people are able to become more successful than others, then good for them. However, taking from one person what they have earned and giving it to another person is in no way the moral thing to do in my mind, it is nothing short of theft.

Again, I want to be part of a society and am willing to pay for the basic structure to help it function but beyond that, I want the government to stay out of my way and stay out of my life.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

I don't know any "high salaried" college employees, though I'm sure they exist. I do know two adjuncts, one is a math teacher who basically lives in his car because he can;t afford to live close to where he "works."

There is probably something wrong in Denmark, but it is disinformation to imply that it is all college / university employees. I'm guessing -- and this is just a wild guess -- that the real problem, with schools, with government, with business, with healthcare, with everything, is lots of paper shuffling, pencil pushing and bean counting, in administration.

I mean, come on. If they were any good at their job, things would be moving in the other (surplus) direction, right?



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 02:03 PM
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originally posted by: thinline
a reply to: Krazysh0t

only if you count the military industrial complex as socialism. The government did buy tons of stuff for the war, that kicked American manufacturing in high gear. Then selling things "made in America" to the countries that got their butt kicked in the war kept the motor going.



No I count things like Social Security, public works jobs, welfare, and other things brought about by the New Deal. One of which is the progressive tax plan that is characteristic of Socialist politics. With said tax plan, the richest were taxed at near 90% taxes and the country STILL prospered.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: eluryh22
Just throwing my two cents into the mix....

That being said, forgetting about what people name things, my basic view on life is that I want to be left alone. Like millions of other people, I pay my taxes which is enough to pave roads, keep public elementary and secondary schools open, staff police departments, arm the military and keep the hospitals running. I think that is more than enough. That should essentially be the end of my relationship with the government.



Trouble is, they aren't very good (or efficient) at doing any of those things, with the possible exception of military spending, which they are absolutely "great" at.

Lots of people go bankrupt or even die trying to use / get healthcare, for example.

Also: the social security program isn't going anywhere, unless you agree to pay out, with interest, everything individual taxpayers have paid into it when they have worked decades and not yet reached retirement age.

There are always holes, right?



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: eluryh22


I understand the desire to make everyone "equal" in every conceivable way but that is just a daydream.

Then you are clearly not able to conceive of the FACT that Democratic Socialism does not encompass "the desire to make everyone equal." It just doesn't. You are still allowed to choose your lifestyle, choose your career - you just don't get to not contribute to the well-being of the sick, the uneducated, the poor, or the elderly.



See, this is the problem. You all do not, and will not so help you, God, actually learn the definitions. You refuse to acknowledge that you are mistaken - you think of "Communism" when you hear the word "socialism". Like if a traumatized kid hears the word "

"Democratic Socialism" does not mean "everyone is equal." It just means that "everyone gets to eat, have a roof over their heads, have an education, and have medical treatment."

HOW ON EARTH any of you can be "against" those principles really really baffles me.

Seriously

How can you be against those things? HOW can you be anti-healthcare, anti-housing, anti-nourishment,
anti-WTFE???

Seriously, again: how do you sleep at night knowing that other people are starving, exposed, hungry, bleeding out, without even ATTEMPTING to say you 'care about them'???? The sh!tstorm is about conservatives not giving a turd about others- is that not true?

THEN STATE YOUR CASE.
Tell us how you are determined to care for those who NEED CARE. Need food, need clothing, need shelter. What are YOU GOING TO DO? Hm?

What?!


edit on 5/11/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: AlaskanDad


Proportional Representation: Elect legislative bodies by proportional representation where each party has representation in proportion to its total vote.


That would be in opposition to the current Congressional Districts that are by population.

The current system is "majority rules" and we often get out of balance because of (for example), a 51% (R) -- 49% (D) that would end up (R).

Is that what the statement means?

And what would be the "new" setup?




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

We have many of those systems in place right now in the U.S.

What are the differences (faults and solutions) compared to Democratic Socialist governments?

Details with comparisons will help people understand, not just bulveristic demands.




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Eventually, we'll see socialism tried here in the US. It's only a matter of time.

For some reason, people tend to drift towards an authoritarian/socialist state.

You'll get your wish.



We already have a socialist state.

Our government is every bit as sinister as Soviet era Russia. In fact they spy on us and control us even more then they did back then. They only difference is that we have capitalism, which evens/balances it out, except that it's gone to far and it's crony capitalism/Oligarchy that rules.

The ideas of Jill Stein and Sanders and Denmark and Iceland etc isn't communism, but social programs that actually help us.

How does citizens united help us? How does giving billions of subsidies and tax breaks to fossil fuel companies help us? How do bailouts to wall street help us? How does having congressmen in power for decades help us? How does supporting the powerful military industrial complex help us? How does Haliburton making 40 Billions of dollars off of the Iraq war help us? How does the all powerful NSA help us? How does the militerization of our police forces help us?

None of it does.

If they're going to tax us, we should decide where that money goes. I'd rather it go to healthcare and education and social programs that help us rather then endless war and profiteering by criminals.



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