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OKAY. I'm going with Jill Stein if I can't go with Bernie

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posted on May, 12 2016 @ 08:32 AM
a reply to: kaylaluv

If you limit the amount that the free market can be free, then it isn't rally free.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 08:33 AM
While not a Bernie supporter (though I would take him over Hillary), I wouldn't count him out just yet.

He's only about 400 delegates behind, and at this point, neither of them are going to get to the needed amount (not counting super delegates, because they vote at the convention) prior to the convention.

And Bernie polls higher vs. Trump than Clinton does. Of course, the establishment does have more control over the Democrat's nomination process than the GOP's (as they found out) he could still be out, but he's certainly still in this thing.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 08:53 AM
a reply to: Gazrok

Yes, he is definitely still in it.
And staying in it.

Was just reading this morning an article on CNN (cited by RCP) that Sanders does, in fact, poll better than Clinton against Trump.
Seems Clinton has no appeal to Bernie's base....
probably because her tuned has changed to suit the beat of his drums - she fought it until it was obvious she had to embrace his policies and offer more than just Obama Redux.

Why she though emulating Obama would be her best 'approach' when he is rabidly hated by about half of Americans, I don't know. Haters gonna hate. I was disappointed with the outcomes under Obama, but recently read an article about his foreign policies and his basic platform in The Atlantic.

I think he was right on lots of things - but Congress fought him tooth and nail like the petulant children they are. (Did you know in April Jim Moran claimed that they need a raise? Apparently $174,000 isn't enough to "live a decent lifestyle." Hmmm.... ) Rep. Jim Moran: Members of Congress are underpaid
(Not to be confused with Sen. Jerry Moran - but Jerry's a problem as well.)

I mean, how many days do they actually work? Seems they take long breaks and recesses more often than they work.
When working Americans can't afford vacations since, oh, 2008 or so - why should Congress have so damn much time off?

That's saying to your employer, "Hey, I'm only going to work part time now, so I need $25/hour rather than the $15 you said you'd pay me for full-time." Erm - no.
edit on 5/12/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 08:58 AM

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Wait, is that guy calling Reagan a Nazi?

Oh, and here's a nice little image of exactly how trickle-down economics works and is intended to work.

Yea I'm not sure he realized the he just insulted his political base.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:00 AM

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Then I got married, and after having kids I went back *gasp* to that same "Liberal University" (for an advanced education for which I still owe money and can not now pay, due to idiotic capitalist crap and the 2008 disaster). They put my name and a title on that piece of paper - I'm not abdicating yet.

See, therein lies the problem with many people who espouse socialist ideals: The problem isn't with "idiotic capitalist crap" or (in my own words) idiotic political crap that leads to an "economic downturn," but it's belief that we need to borrow money in order to pay for higher education (and beyond) in the first place.

Doing things on credit is what causes these problems--it's not the capitalist system. No one forces anyone to take out student loans. Period. There are numerous other ways to pay for college (or a trade school, which I advocate) than borrowing money from the same institutions that you apparently abhor and rise against.

Don't hate a voluntary system that you chose to take part in just because it didn't work out the way you had hoped it would, and don't blame everything else when it was your own choice to partake in the student-loan Ponzi scheme. I chose to partake in the student loan system (only $8,000 over my 4.5 years at a university), and I paid it off early and am doing fine. Not everybody uses the system and has a bad result. But honestly, I just wish that I had not taken the loans at all, but I needed the computer equipment and programs that I bought with it immediately, and couldn't wait to save up. It paid off in the end.

But if these experiences are what drive you to despise capitalism and advocate for socialism, you're going to have a rude awakening if socialism ever takes (a more prominent) hold in this country, as the drain on your pocket book will be even more noticeable than some student loans.

As for Jill Stein--enjoy voting for someone who will not get into the White House. I know I will enjoy it when I vote for Gary Johnson again, but it's better than either Clinton or Trump at this point. But in any case, it's the votes from the Electoral College that matter anyhow, and living in KY, I'm quite certain that the state (and its electoral votes) will go for Trump, so my vote for Johnson is merely symbolic anyhow.

Quite honestly, at this point, I'd rather see Sanders in office over any of the other two main candidates, because while I despise his socialist agenda, I don't think much of it would get approved in Congress, so I'm not concerned about that--but I do think that he'd be on the right side of human/civil rights, and I do think that he is a genuinely good person, and I'd prefer that in office over Clinton or Trump any day.

At least you're fighting the two-party system, so that's a good move

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:44 AM
a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Capitalism isn't the problem.

Government Socialist policies are.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:47 AM
a reply to: kaylaluv

Government "regulation" and "deregulation" are socialist polices enforced by governments.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:48 AM
a reply to: xuenchen

No. Deregulation is the problem. Unfettered greed is encouraged when there are no limits.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:50 AM

but I do think that he'd be on the right side of human/civil rights

I really couldn't give a rat's ass about those issues, as they are pretty much already a matter of law as they should be. (with the sole exception that a certain herb should be completely legalized).

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 10:52 AM
a reply to: xuenchen

No corruption, greed and corporate rule are the problems!

Neither system can work, if it is managed by those that do not want it to work, but would rather corrupt the system to enrich themselves and their family and friends at the cost of others ie the 99%.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:04 AM
xuenchen asked anout Dr Jill Steins position on student loans, here is a quote that mentions her opposition to student debt:

I am Jill Stein, Green Party candidate for President, AMA! by jillstein2016 in IAmA

[–]jillstein2016[S] 92 points 17 hours ago

Well the major parties are melting down before our very eyes. Donald Trump's campaign has been described as a hostile takeover of the Republican Party, and it is in disarray. Bernie Sanders represents the people but is being sabotaged by the Democratic Party.

So the base of both parties is abandoning ship right now. In addition, polls show that 50% of the electorate has already divorced the Democratic and Republican Parties. These are zombie parties! Third parties like the Green Party and the socialist parties are different from the political establishment because we are not poisoned by corporate money.

The Green Party is the only national-scale party that refuses to accept corporate money. So you are looking at the future of people-powered politics right now, in the form of the Green Party. So hallelujah! We finally have a political party at the national-level that can tell the truth and put the real solutions on the table that the American people are clamoring for-

Not only cancelling student debt and making public higher education free, but also creating healthcare as a human right, a welcoming path to citizenship, an end to the prison-industrial complex and police violence, and endless wars for oil. We can have an economy and a world that works for all of us outside of the corporate political parties that are a house of cards falling down. Out with the old. In with the new!

Source link goes to Dr Jill Stein's overview page with her answers to yesterdays reddit iama.

edit on 12-5-2016 by AlaskanDad because: added bold

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:07 AM
Go with who you support, for later.

Voting for someone other than who you want is truly a wasted vote.

...Like voting for the president makes any difference anyway, outside of local politics...

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:12 AM
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's like saying we aren't really free if we aren't allowed to kill whomever we want. You should be free up to the point you start to harm others - whether that be physically or financially or whatever.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 11:19 AM
a reply to: deadlyhope

Yeah you are right, my tax money doesn't go toward government backed loans and grants. My property taxes don't go toward paying for school for everyone else's kids either. My money also doesn't go toward dropping bombs on women and childrens heads in the middle east.

Please tell me more, you seem to know it all.

Now that I made my point, pay for your own damn school.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 12:06 PM
a reply to: AlaskanDad

That's part of what I was asking for before.

Thank You.

Although she couldn't go into detail on that venue, at least we know the general point.

Assuming the 'cancelling" means the existing loans would be somehow forgiven, I would further assume the exiting loans would be paid back from tax revenue as well as future tuition.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 12:49 PM

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's like saying we aren't really free if we aren't allowed to kill whomever we want. You should be free up to the point you start to harm others - whether that be physically or financially or whatever.

Socialism is definitely infringing upon rights.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 12:59 PM
a reply to: DBCowboy

Who decided on those rights?

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 01:01 PM

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: DBCowboy

Who decided on those rights?

I'm going with "Constitution" for 500 Alex.

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 01:11 PM

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Domo1

I'm a liberal Democrat myself and definitely go for trump over Hilary. I don't like the guy, but I also haven't seen him linked to many suspicious deaths, incompetent acts that ended lives, threatened national security, etc. He also doesn't give shady back room speeches for insane prices - what the hell is she promising them?

Trump is a loud narcissist that says things people don't like - pretty much politician material and par for the course, while hillary is an insane psychopath that might just kill to get her way..

Remember when Hillary did an outdoor fundraiser with a bunch of wealthy donors in Colorado, and to prevent reporters from listening to her speech they started blasting white noise over the speakers?

Nothing to see here folks.

Clinton Campaign Uses Noise Machine To Block Reporters From Hearing Fundraiser Speech
edit on 12-5-2016 by Konduit because: (no reason given)

posted on May, 12 2016 @ 02:47 PM
a reply to: DBCowboy

You know, DB, you asked me earlier if I ever think about how I might be wrong.
I answered you that yes, I do think about it.

Let me ask you this:

Do you realize that you are wrong about Democratic Socialism including government "owning means of production"? Because THAT is not true - and if you didn't, by some strange brain-fart or learning disability, know it's not true - now you do.

I'm telling you. It is not true. Now - go look it up, and come back when you actually realize IT IS NOT TRUE.

Because that means then that if you continue to say that it is (which it isn't), then you are willfully lying. You are deliberately trolling and spreading misinformation. Stop lying. STOP SAYING THAT SOCIALISM as Bernie is suggesting it, and as our country already does, is "government owning all means of production." Just - stop.

edit on 5/12/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

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