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France - Liberté, égalité, fraternité to bypass the people

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posted on May, 11 2016 @ 09:39 AM
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Welcome to the Brave New Era of Postfascism in Europe, dear ATSlien!

Background:


French president trying to cement his place in history with sweeping reforms to the country’s rigid employment laws

‘End of term’ protests threaten François Hollande’s labour legacy

Implications:


France’s labour minister will soon present a batch of new reforms that could have a profound impact on people’s daily working lives in France. Or in other words, we can expect to work longer hours.

How working life in France is set to change (for the worse?)

Hammering it down, for the good old Realpolitik's sake:


The French government plans to box through its controversial law on job market reform without a parliamentary vote because it can't count on winning enough votes from its own ranks. The government must not bypass the people, some commentators warn. Others see the constitutional decree trick as justified.

France boxes job market reform through parliament

Neoliberalism at it's finest I say. The gloves are off, hot sommer in France ahead.

What's your take on this, ATS?
And thanks for being vigilant, reading this thread.


edit on 11-5-2016 by PublicOpinion because: the big P




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 10:39 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

So, basically, this is a thread about the terrible tactics of using what is known here in the U.S. as "Executive Orders" to get something accomplished that the legislative body of government is refusing to do (for whatever reason, good or bad)?

Yes, executive orders are a terrible way to govern a nation. I can't stand them, myself, and I don't blame French people for disliking the tactic.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

Correct. Ermächtigungsgesetze, you could put it that way as well.
Sounds awesome in my mothertounge, déjà vu anyone?



Thanks for completely boiling it down in the first reply. You're spot on!
And let me add: good news for the ones with more money, bad news for those with lesser.


edit on 11-5-2016 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

oh boy, thanks for bringing attention to this... i've been in france for 6 years..

i've signed at least 2 petitions against these new work reforms.. I missed out on recent manifestations/protests, but the people's voice is quite clear that they want nothing to do with this proposal..

the president and the political left side he represents has not been the typical socialist (like democratic) party that people here usually support- however imperfect it is/was.. my french wife has been very disgusted with him, like most who voted for him.. he is very unpopular, which he seems to be quite ignorant to and keeps dubiously telling the public that things are getting better, which they're not..

Yo slapMonkey! i hear ya too.. these executive orders are to be very discernful of.. i've seen a similar trend of mr. Holland acting 'a la' Bush after declaring war on terrorism as a pretext to future executive orders.. they better not over-ride the TAFTA protest either!



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: AwakenYaMind

You're welcome, my best wishes for you and your wife!


they better not over-ride the TAFTA protest either!


You bet they will. That joke of a summit in Paris was a pretext and the state of emergency is yet ongoing...


But demonstrators in France were warned not to gather amid the state of emergency enacted after the Paris attacks.

Global Climate March: Clashes in Paris as Protesters Rally Ahead of COP21

Wake up the Demon_Strator I say!




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 11:41 AM
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Socialism always need more money to give stuff away. Making people work more so they can pay more taxes to pay for more fee stuff, is just a logical conclusion.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: thinline

Yeah, except that it's Bollocks.

Research Icelands Icesave-process, find a thread about it on ATS and head for that kind of partisan-'debate' elsewhere. It's the economy, stupid!



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 03:38 PM
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Thing is... France needs labour reform. The labour laws and privileges are out of date with reality.


originally posted by: PublicOpinion
Welcome to the Brave New Era of Postfascism in Europe


WW2 was quite a long time ago, but unclear how that resonates with your point.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 03:54 PM
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A damn good idea imo.

If there is to be a change in employment in France it CANNOT be left to those who would have to do more hours to decide. France runs a minimum hours agenda. Some feel it is to protect the freedom to enjoy what's earned but to those who suffer because of it, it's a pain in the derriere.

Shops and offices are closed when you need them, bureacracy feeds itself with laziness and buck passing, etc, etc...
People who WANT to open longer hours and willing to lenthen their services are actually stopped from doing so by authorities to prevent others feeling the same.

It's time France realised they cannot live an ideal and remain competitive in a global or even local market any longer.

I've been here 14 years. Still can't get tobacco, fuel, food or most kinds of service after about 7.30pm. France basically closes at dinner time.

Things can also be really expensive due to the fact that limited hours mean people charge or earn more for the time they put in.

There is no use of the French word "entrepreneur" in france other than describing a tax regime. It is standard for a person to go to school, possibly college, and then do one career until they retire because of the job security. Sacking someone is practically impossible and it breeds the mentality of not giving a damn because the pay check is going to come anyway.

There are exceptions, but it's time things evolved quicker.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité works many ways and is usually construde into whatever suits those with the power.

France is incredibly dualistic.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: paraphi

You'll catch my drift when this summer turned hot. You simply don't F with the French and fool them with Ermächtigungs-BS, just wait and see.




France needs labour reform.


And I need a break, sounds like Nanny State BS to please the 'free' markets. Hence fascism, still don't get it? Ok then, care to elaborate on why you think everything is ok?



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:07 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

so, had a chance to see some of the news about it.. thanx the wishes P.O.

saw a good lil video (in french) that breaks down how the leaders are going around public protest of this..

in a nutshell, the political head of labor, Mrs. El khomri, created this unfair proposal that will make it much easier for companies to fire employees, plus less protection in general for workers, more to the corporations.. the prez and his cabinet are strongly pushing this and using l'Article de la constitution: Le 49.3:
Permits passing laws without permission of the national political assembly..

THE WHOLE COUNTRY WILL GO ON STRIKE TUESDAY NEXT WEEK!
the people are pissed and i hope more will wake up because of this..

it's not the executive order that i thought actually.. this loop hole (49.3) has existed for quite some time, but rarely used and abused.. although now it's looking like these monkey leaders are going to use it to their manipulative advantage..

you're right about the agenda 21, i mean cop21.. i'm trying to spread awareness about this stuff with ppl here..
complicated times buddy



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: nerbot

I get your sentiment. But that take is some kinda sad joke with regards to the recent Lux Leaks & Panama Papers.

You can't possibly argue with fair taxes when the really big players store their tons of cash offshore. It's just pathetic, but kinda funny in a retarded way.
On a sidenote: France celebrated the end of slavery on the same day they boxed this law through parliament, talking about real life comedy gold. It's called democracy. Really!

If you can't see the neoliberal BS by now you must be blind on your left eye. There's a reason you have 2, it's called depth perception.

A star and a medal for real life irony iron goes out to you:




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:23 PM
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I don't feel alarmed. I watch reforms be done and redone - it seems to me that they are more fluid in France that way - they try something for a while, if it doesn't seem to work, they try something else.

In any case labor reform is necessary. Did you read the links you provided?


Young people in particular are excluded from the job market because stringent job protection and high redundancy pay are hindering the creation of new jobs. At the same time strictly regimented working times and wage increases in excess of productivity are constricting companies.


This is absolutely true. It's not just young people, it's any people. Companies have to guarantee so much security that they are afraid to hire anyone! It is impossible to fire anyone so employees do what they want. My husband worked for a company once who had a horrendous receptionist who scared away clients. One day she picked up a big potted plant and threw it at the head of the client. Still couldn't fire her.

With all the other charges to pay, weeks of vacation, fully paid sick live whenever they don't feel good (all you need is a note from the doctor - he could give it just for being stressed, and you have full pay for years! -And they cannot fire you while on leave! ) maternity leave paid for three years, with guarantee of keeping of your post, double pay if you work more than 35 hours in a week.....then, if you make any accusation against your employer, you tie them up in expensive processes for years. This all is putting companies out of business, discouraging entrepreneurs, and making the job market a disaster.

In any case, as the article you linked to says,

They will have to convince unions, but even if they can’t then they can simply hold a referendum among workers, in which they’ll need over 50 percent of votes.



My point of view being that these need to happen, so I am not worried. I am not real sure why Hollande is mentioned here, what he has to do with it? These are being presented by El Khomri, and don't strike me as the sorts of reforms Hollande and the socialists are usually tending towards (on the contrary!) But I'll look into it more.




edit on 11-5-2016 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
You'll catch my drift when this summer turned hot. You simply don't F with the French and fool them with Ermächtigungs-BS, just wait and see.

To be honest the French are always rioting and striking, so hardly a prediction that won't come to pass. Most rioting nowadays comes out of the Muslin ghettos because the immigrants don't get what they think they deserve.

If the French are not burning English sheep they are disrupting everyone's travel. However, the French don't cause mayhem when they are all taking their looooong Summer holidays - you know when the entire French civil service et al don't do any work.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: AwakenYaMind

And that Frenchmenship could swap over to other european nations pretty easy, wouldn't be the first time. And France is not the only nation to suffer from our Troika, aka more of the same old same old on Mammons altar.


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.l


I think people understand Einstein good enough by now. That's actually great news, thanks for that. May the force of general strikes be with us!




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma




But I'll look into it more.


Nah. Forget about it, everything is ok! Let the already working poor just do more ... work! It's for the market, ya know. Otherwise somebody will be offended if we wouldn't ride this neoliberal aganda down to the finish line.

Promise!




posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: nerbot
A damn good idea imo.

If there is to be a change in employment in France it CANNOT be left to those who would have to do more hours to decide. France runs a minimum hours agenda. Some feel it is to protect the freedom to enjoy what's earned but to those who suffer because of it, it's a pain in the derriere.

Shops and offices are closed when you need them, bureacracy feeds itself with laziness and buck passing, etc, etc...
People who WANT to open longer hours and willing to lenthen their services are actually stopped from doing so by authorities to prevent others feeling the same.



Bravo! Ten times Bravo!

Exactly! If people in other countries had any idea what is going on here, they would see this in a different light completely!!

I was an entrepreneur, and when my commerce got so big I needed to hire someone, I simply sold it and did like everyone else in my city - go to work for the state. I made much more money, worked much less hours, and had tons of benefits and protection. I was horrified with the lack of work ethic though - it was exactly as rumored. People come in hours late to have a smoke and coffee before they leave again (the few days when they are not on vacation).

I actually had my coworkers get together a few times to tell me I better slow my arse down and work less, because I was raising expectations for everyone. I could not stand it.

Ran into one of them yesterday and he laughed away telling me how he has been on paid sick leave for nine months, and got his doctor to write another for three months more. They cannot fire him, legally, and he has no problem or sickness! He brags about this.

Here's part of the problem- they also cannot hire someone in his place and give them a CDI. They can only hire replacements for short period contracts (CDD's).

For those not in France: to be able to rent an apartment, buy a car, have any credit, you must have a CDI.
When you have 60% of your employees absent this way, you have a huge amount of employees that have no security, cannot rent or buy a car, and who get practically enslaved doing all the work by the permanent employees who are drinking and smoking outside all day!

I'm rambling because it is something I feel strongly about. They have to change this.



posted on May, 11 2016 @ 04:44 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion

Nah. Forget about it, everything is ok! Let the already working poor just do more ... work!


The working poor??? What????? What are you talking about?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma



In-work poverty is a phenomenon that affected 9,1 percent of the working age EU population in 2012

In-Work Poverty In The EU


The in-work at risk of poverty rate for employees – that is, excluding self-employed people – almost doubled, from 6.4% in 2000 to 12% in 2006.

Workin g poor in Europe – Germany

I stumbeld upon a fresh poverty report the other day but I'm kinda lazy right now and start to think you live on the other side of the moon anyway.
9 question-marks for Captain Obvious, really? What's next, Am I supposed to explain the meaning of 'work' to you?



posted on May, 12 2016 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Yes, there is so much poverty in the EU that half the world wants to be here! Poverty is relative. A poor person in Greece is different from a poor person in some backward place like Sudan or Eritrea et al. Half of Africa wants to be as poor as a poor Englishman!

France has a problem with youth unemployment. Most informed commentators say it's because of the restrictive labour laws.

I am not arguing for US-style employment practices (which are pretty crap), but if France was a little more flexible then it may actually be helpful.



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