Maybe surveillance is good

With the revelations by former NSA member Snowden, we can all confirm that the government has the ability to wiretap your calls and even watch your online activity.

This actually wasn't a secret though. Many people have been aware of this for years now. Rosa Parks, Malcom X, Muhammad Ali, and many others were monitored throughout their lives as political dissents for refusal to being drafted in the military or for pushing civil rights. Essentially anything that goes against the status quo of the establishment would label you a "terrorist" and this is going on even today.

In the name of security the government tries to justify this invasion of privacy for locating criminal activity. In this aspect, its practical but I always believed that this constant surveillance can be used to scrutinize against you. You say the wrong thing and suddenly you're on a government watch list. The problem with this surveillance is that it stifles freedom of speech which is a precursor to communist regimes. They take away your freedom of speech first and once that happens you give them totalitarian authority over your every day life.

You can't freely express your opinions which no one should ever advocate as this is a violation of human rights.

With that being said, I'm not afraid that big brother is watching. For one, the civillian population is much larger than government personnel. It would be asinine to think the government would try to secure the whole population. There's simply too many people and they'd face backlash before they could pull off anything. They would have to employ some divide and conquer strategy but even that would only get you so far on the populace.

I don't see any internment camps or martial law being put in place because the unrest would be too much to handle. The government would need greater demand in personnel to offset the civillian population and the military has been downsizing with the current economy.

Even all the countless people that have been stalked, monitored, and even killed (William Cooper, Olson, Bill Schneider) couldn't be a reoccurring theme as every one else would start picking up on this pattern. The more people that end up mysteriously dying or getting locked up for whistleblowing would eventually incite retalliation by the community as it would be too obvious what is going on. It would just be too suspicious and too much of a coincidence.

But I do see one good thing about government surveillance and researching conspiracy theories websites (which would normally put you on their watch list; probably even as we speak.) The positive outcome I'd hope that the surveillance would lead to is the consequential "waking up" to those in the government themselves as they're conducting the monitoring.

If they research anything that I'm researching then I'd imagine they will become aware themselves to what's going on in the world and instead of being oppressed, it would ultimately change public opinion and prompt necessary addressing to the many conspiracies going on.

I think it's the reason why guys like Steven Greer, who has been pushing for disclosure of alien/military technology, hasn't been killed yet because if he were to have mysteriously died people would know it was a hit. So maybe the government watching our online activity wakes them up as a result. Maybe we get the government on our side rather than against us. In fact, the government might learn integral information that would benefit society as a whole.

What do you guys think?

a reply to: supermilkman

I agree privacy violation can be used to potentially stop bombings etc.. But it also has the very real and very effecient capacity to hinder freedom speakers, activists, anti-establishment or anti government individuals/groups in general, for the benefit of the government. For me this and it's negative impact on privacy in general rules it out as a desired addition to society.

As you said they used it to moniter high profile political dissents. There should be no allowance for this type of spying. Government works for the people, people do not work for the government. A "political dissent" is just an individual who doesn't agree with the way government is handling certain things, or perhaps even government as a whole, and this is 100% a legal and fair practise of his/her rights, it warrants no wiretaps etc...

I feel freedom globally is under a very real threat. Politicans are just the icing and decoration on the cake, there to make it more attractive to the buyer, when really this cake is becoming a rotting embarassment.

I am in awe of your faith in government reform, I don't share it and personally think this government will continue down its set path of personal gain and power over the people, But still.

Government Lies
Government Steals
Government Kills
Government Rapes
Government Abuses
Government just does not care about you, your friends, or your family...why is it still here again?

Due to the advent of technology, every aspect of human activity will be monitored and controlled.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it 'good', but it is the next evolutionary step of mankind.

We just have to be very mindful as to who exactly is pulling all the levers.

a reply to: GodEmperor

I agree. Its just evolution especially with the information/digital age that we are in. Drones might be a regular thing in every day pedestrian life which for many sounds evil but is just the natural steps we're heading for security. I've already seen a drone not too long ago and although initially unnerving it makes sense that they will be the norm in the future.

Same thing with other security measures with our telecommunication systems and our grid. Its all about adaption and seeing that transhumanism is already underway (cybernetics, chip implants, AI, etc) its only a matter of time before the cyberpunk societies seen in novels become a reality.

Hopefully these capabilities aren't abused in the wrong hands but there has always been good and bad apples throughout history, regardless of technology.

I see the future being highly technical and efficient. Hopefully not dystopian though.

a reply to: WatchFreedomDisolve

You're right in all your points. I'm not advocating the government in this respect, just saying its a possibility that maybe they too will become enlightened to their background of conspiracies and atrocities. I'd say the internet is bringing more awareness than ever. Unconventional and unpopular opinions actually has a voice when its normally supressed in the public.

Also I have no problem with law enforcement or the ideas of a military for defense purposes. The problem is that this adminstration is corrupt and is tarnishing the purpose of having a government in the first place.

So instead of covering up all the corruption maybe service men, internal affairs, and people in law will openly address it and bring the criminals into justice. Everyone from Goldman-Sachz to the CIA need to be indicted for war crimes. Until it gets addressed, they will only sweep the incidences under the wrong.

Hopefully there will be a reformation in our system that is actually just than the way it has been for decades now.

I'm not afraid that big brother is watching.

You will go to the Dagobah System, complete your training there you will...

a reply to: Tellurian

That's funny and creepy

a reply to: supermilkman

Tyranny often masquerades as our protector.

a reply to: supermilkman

it would ultimately change public opinion and prompt necessary addressing to the many conspiracies going on.

Just because some low tier police state actors ( guess which folks are actually running the surveillance) woke up? And who will carry that olympic torch all the way up the chain of command, resulting in the big change you hope for? Who'd be dumb enough to risk a sacred Nanny State career just for doing so?
Tell me, do you know anyone with such big balls of steel? Would you do it, risking the wellbeing of your loved ones/ family and such? The people with said ability wouldn't even think about taking such a job, at least not the ones I happen to know a bit. We're not talking about the military here, it's just the NSA!
One of the reasons I'm still kinda wary with regards to the Snowden leak btw. I can't bring myself to trust that guy either, due to his career choice and due to the way he released his info. This wasn't a full-blown leak, just compare the whole event to Wiki-Leaks and start to wonder a 'little' yourself...

The public opinion is already adressing a fricken lot of issues while big media ignores nearly everything at hand, to deliver bread and games instead. Who's going to tell the tale then?

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Have you heard about the Jade Helm incident? There was service men having press releases addressing the potential negative consequences of the exercise. They didn't keep their mouth shut and try to keep it a secret, many openly spoke out against it.

There have also been many other conferences and disclosure groups that went viral, especially by government officials. You're right the media doesn't talk about it as they play a role in distracting such information, but the fact that many are going online and having public addresses speaks for itself.

I think I heard a while ago that MSM lost more than half it's viewers once people started researching alternative news reports. The internet is undermining much of the propaganda being put out by the media and I think most people at this point, at least the ones who are informed, don't trust what is being put on television.

Look at the Queen Elizabeth and child kidnapping incident. She has officially been charged guilty for child kidnapping, experimentation, torture, rape/molestation, and even deaths of Indian kids taken from a Catholic school on an Indian reservation. One 50 year old Indian, whom after many years of silence, witnessed this as a kid and tried to testify in court before mysteriously dying.

After much fact checking and researching there was blatant evidence that these claims were true and now you have the Queen trying to cover up the whole debacle. She even put a soldier in involuntary treatment at a psych ward and given anti-psychotics for questioning the allegations. However, the beans have been spilled already and there was mass unrest and marching on the streets in many parts of Europe.

Yet you see no news coverage or it being in the headlines. Why? Because obviously the establishment, bankers, government, and media are all in on it together. However, for once the parliament has actually done what they were suppose to do, which is to uphold the law, and bring the Queen to justice,

This is just one of many examples that are going viral on the internet today. Sooner or later we will have a tipping point where anyone who is in the media, high ranking government officials/politicians, and others will have to go into hiding as they are being exposed with hard photographic evidence, documents, and even footage. Nothing they can do can undue what has already been discovered.

This is why they were trying to pass SOPA a while ago but once again the masses aren't going to allow a select few to censor or run their lives anymore.

I'm a part of the labor union and I signed a petition not too long ago that made a few demands with the AFL-CIO.

The demands were:

1. Emphasis on rebuilding our infrastructure
2. Increasing employment rating which would increase wages
3. That the 1% distribute the 99% of wealth they own fairly to everyone in a true trickle down effect

The fact that we made an official inquiry that states this demand for the 1% to distribute their income is proof that people no longer think it's a conspiracy anymore. Its all fact based and fact checked and unless the system actually succumbs to these demands they will face a backlash and unrest they could never handle.

The few rich will be no match for the mass poor and even the wealthy's servants, advisors, and own militaries would soon turn against them with not only the blatant conspiracies coming to revelation but the obvious discrepancy of money being distributed amongst everyone.

Right now I've been reading up on this former CIA operative named Stan Deyo and his claims of anti-gravity black ops technology. I'm a little iffy on the guy but he is a legit former operative so he has credibility. He, like many others, have been pushing for disclosure.

Other conspiracies I've been researching is the Donald Marshall Megadeth album allegations and underground catacombs in Paris.

I find myself more interested in this type of research then watching the spoon fed dribble on tv. If anything I'm sure most people see right through it at this point.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Also something else to think about. The government is being monitored just like the rest of us.

Back in Colorado they passed a mandate that all police officers carry cameras and always be on record mode. Of course they hated this initially but now they have to mind their P's and Q's just like everyone else.

If anything the idea that everyone is being watched at all times should make them paranoid enough to not step too far out of line.

Kind of like Hilary Clinton and her email scandal or the inconsistencies in Trump's statements when fact checked.

You really got to watch what you say or do no matter who you are.

a reply to: supermilkman

Yeah. But they use that rather picky, no body cams during Finnicums murder in Oregon. Just lousy drone-pics with no audio files. Thanks to the civilians involved all that changed a few days later. You're right, we watch the watchers. And so did many military folks with Jade Helm, now we're aware of the plans to "operationalize the CONUS base".

I was heavily fixated on the NSA, guess we've got attachment issues, but your hope (should I say vision?) really resonates with me. We need to renew the social contract as long as there's any civility left. Time is running and we could have this mess cleared up rather quickly when corruption doesn't work this easy anymore. But don't get mad in case we achieve nothing at all, it's mission impossible thus far. At least we tried, right?

Keep on with the good work, sounds great to me! I'd suggest a basic income as a nice addition, it will boost the economy and save a lot of money. Anyway... we could use a little more awareness for your/ our projects, I'm working on that. Dada siegt! On the long run. Hopefully.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Best of luck to you as well. Whatever happens, happens.

I think too many people can't understand Surveillance outside of the indiscretions of the past and Orwell's Novel.

A shame, really.

We're moving into a more enlightened age, but the fear and propaganda surrounding the Eye in the Sky so to speak still makes folks frightened and even pushes some towards trying to dismantle the System, which in turn makes things even more controlled and regulated depending on the severity of the infraction against such systems.

I mean heck, the worst of it is going to come if you make a "big deal" out of it, and slide into subversive thought and propogation of the very mentality that mandates tightly controlled systems.

Trust me, I've been (and still somewhat) on the proverbial radar because of activism I loosely engaged in back in the 1990's.

I'm harmless, but they still need to make sure I'm not a total maroon before I can go about my business in peace.

Don't bother me none.

If Big Brother shows up outside my window for a stake out, he's used to seeing a friendly full moon, high flying middle finger, smile and wave by now.

He knows I'm just a harmless doofus.

It's when folks take things too damn seriously it can get nasty.

Just speaking from personal experience here.....your results may vary.

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

No, you're actually right. That's why I don't fret over it too much. I speak to police and military from time to time. Some of them believe in the conspiracies too.

I never tried any acts of sedition but I think awareness is important. Unrest would only happen if things started to get out of hand. There might be a revolution, who knows. Any system reformation should be done peacefully however.

Also you know the eye of providence on the dollar bill? I always interpreted it as God is always watching even when you're alone. So regardless of being listened too on the phone or being monitored by the government I already have the notion a higher power is keeping me on the straight and narrow moreso than a person ever would.

a reply to: supermilkman

Right on dude. Glad I'm not alone is thinking this way.
The Eye of Providence also gives me that feeling as well.
Benevolent caretaking, rather than "oooooh spooky ominous".
Rock on.

Surveillance at its most innocent level of course has its benefits when thinking about security and intercepting possible threaths. The problem is that we aren't able to give those who surveil the same treatment or else we end up in Edward Snowdon's shoes, so blindly trust me must. That doesn't work for me.

a reply to: Lumi309

I think the government is being monitored too.

They're probably micromanaged moreso than others in fact.

The problem is that they can give themselves immunity and get away with crimes they shouldn't be getting away with, hence cover ups and bleaching of records.