Trump: U.S. will never default 'because you print the money'

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
The gold market operates as a supply and demand, particularly with the amount of it being used for manufacturing. You cannot artificially depress the gold market unless you control all production and their are far too many independent outfits mining gold.

I think there is a lot of scope for manipulation. There are question marks around the bullion holdings of the United States, for one country, and large purchases of gold by China. This is a technical area of discussion. It surprises me that you do not think that the price of gold is kept artificially low.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I disagree. We'll just have to leave it, I think.

a reply to: ipsedixit

You need to demonstrate how it is kept artificially low in a global market with numerous supply and end use factors.

The demand side drives the market, is every purchaser of gold in on this grand price suppression conspiracy?

The U.S. wouldn't have to worry about defaulting on obligations....

But everyone below the level of the U.S. government would be forced to....

The monetary system is the problem....

Trump is a retard....

a reply to: nwtrucker

It takes more devalued "money" to pay off a debt incurred while "money" was of higher value.

It would be like trying to fill a gallon jug with water with a quart container in only four transfers when the quart was made smaller by decree to efficiency.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: nwtrucker

It takes more devalued "money" to pay off a debt incurred while "money" was of higher value.

It would be like trying to fill a gallon jug with water with a quart container in only four transfers when the quart was made smaller by decree to efficiency.

Not true as the debt is in dollars. Doesn't matter if the currency devalues (and that remains a big if) the same amount of dollars pays the same amount of debt.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The fixing would be done in how the gold price is set. This is done by five banks operating through a committee based in London. This is a large topic, another thread really.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The fixing would be done in how the gold price is set. This is done by five banks operating through a committee based in London.

Which is influenced by supply and demand. Do you think any of the banks are going to leave profit on the table?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There is a widespread view that the price of gold is kept artificially low. This view is not confined only to conspiracy theorists. I am not especially well informed about these things but you are right, the banks are not going to leave a profit on the table, particularly if the profit is on somebody else's table. I think that is the real problem with gold.

Personally, I suspect that the way that gold is distributed, around the world, is not in the interest of those who are accused of manipulating its price.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
There is a widespread view that the price of gold is kept artificially low.

The evidence would need to be compelling for me to believe that the supply and demand aspect of gold use in manufacturing was being held artificially low. There is so much used in our modern electronics that I find it highly specious that it can be manipulated lower when a higher price would be more beneficial for those allegedly doing the manipulation.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I think you are overestimating industry as a factor in the price of gold. Gold is a very stable commodity that resists market forces in the normal course of things mainly, as I have read, because there is so much of it. The question for me is not whether the price is manipulated but how and to what purpose is it manipulated.

The world's trading nations are off the gold standard but the world's people are not off the gold standard and some of the world's trading nations, by their gold holdings and purchases, give evidence of, perhaps, a feeling that even for them, gold is still a standard.

a reply to: ipsedixit

60% of yearly gold production is in the consumption market. The supply and demand aspect is a heavy influencer in pricing.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: ipsedixit

60% of yearly gold production is in the consumption market. The supply and demand aspect is a heavy influencer in pricing.

I think this influence is controlled so as to be active within limits. The effort is to make gold a commodity like others, artificially. I think this is done to deprive those who hold large quantities of gold from being able to bring wealth derived from gold into action in the markets in an excessively profitable way and also to enable national or other interests to acquire gold at below a realistic value.

a reply to: ipsedixit

There is too much gold going into the consumption market for it to be highly manipulated. The intrinsic value also plays into the pricing as you cannot use other material to effectively take its place.