Staged Terror Training (Trafford Centre)

This is just strange to me ..

A mock terrorist attack has been carried out at one of the UK’s busiest shopping centres, in a marauding assault similar to the Paris and Brussels atrocities.

A friend on my Facebook shared this. I took to Google to type "Trafford Centre" and sure enough...

More than 800 volunteers took part in the staged attack at the Trafford Centre inManchester on Monday night.

As part of the drill a fake suicide bomber detonated an explosive device in a packed food court at the shopping centre.

One could understand the reasoning for such training, but then again, this is just out there imho.

800 volunteers!? How many more of these "training exercises" have been going on with that volume of people?

Apparently during the staged event, they had the fake bomber holler out "Allah Akbar".

That is a step too far for training....

The shopping centre will be open as usual on Tuesday, although the training exercise is due to continue unseen at unnamed locations until Wednesday, when it will finish in Merseyside.

Oh great, thanks for the heads up

Source; The Guardian

Source; The independent

a reply to: Elementalist

Yikes... hopefully a real event doesn't happen that closely mirrors the "scenario" theme of the drill, as has happened in the past

How is it strange?

Most people practice their job to make sure they do it properly.

I don't see this as anything other than a training exercise. I don't know what the big deal is.

How is this strange? What would be strange is if they were not training then you would have to wonder why not?

Yes because when you train for something be it a terrorist attack or an Infosec breach you should always scale down what you are training for, screw the "train for real life, not for fantasy scenario" approach. Said by people that never trained for anything in the real world..

Explain to me why yelling "Allah Akbar" is a step too far for a training event?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
How is it strange?

Most people practice their job to make sure they do it properly.

I don't see this as anything other than a training exercise. I don't know what the big deal is.

Wasn't aware I was making a big deal about it? Just sharing what the news has..

I just found it strange to gather 800 randoms, shut down a busy mall.. have the "fake bomber" shout out Allahu Akbar lol.

But I guess that's normal. Not where I'm from though.

Carry on

originally posted by: Elementalist

originally posted by: TerryDon79
How is it strange?

Most people practice their job to make sure they do it properly.

I don't see this as anything other than a training exercise. I don't know what the big deal is.

Wasn't aware I was making a big deal about it? Just sharing what the news has..

I just found it strange to gather 800 randoms, shut down a busy mall.. have the "fake bomber" shout out Allahu Akbar lol.

But I guess that's normal. Not where I'm from though.

Carry on

I'm an army brat. I'm used to military training scenarios.

I now live where there are jets flying near doing training exercises about twice a week.

Wouldn't you rather they did the training so they could handle the situation the best possible way they can?

originally posted by: Elementalist
This is just strange...

No, it's really not.
All cities, all emergency services, all nations conduct training exercises all around the world every year, corporations and even smaller companies conduct the same kind of scenarios to ensure that they have continuity of business in place should things happen.

How do you expect agencies, cities and governments to effectively plan to deal with events like these without having drills and exercises?

originally posted by: Elementalist
800 volunteers!? How many more of these "training exercises" have been going on with that volume of people?

The more the better, it gives a better understanding and preparation for a genuine event when you have as many as possible participating in it.

Terrorist attacks have a primary purpose, and that's to maim or kill as many as possible. Obviously we know that these sick individuals target areas where they can maximize the damage they can do, so having 800 people as victims in a drill makes absolute sense as it allows us to see how effective such a response or rescue would be when there's large numbers involved.

originally posted by: Elementalist
Apparently during the staged event, they had the fake bomber holler out "Allah Akbar".

And the police have been forced to apologize for this utterly stupid decision too, but I would go further than that and suggest that whoever signed off on that aspect of it needs to be fired for bringing right-wing politics into a training exercise and making this a political propaganda piece.

It's absolutely obvious that whoever made that decision had ulterior motives. They made that decision because of a political opinion and a message they wanted to send to the public, and they should lose their job over it.

Terrorism comes from various sources, and Manchester should know this better than any city other than London.

This was a pathetically stupid decision to make, and it was a deliberate attempt by individuals within the police to make a politically charged point. They should be fired.

originally posted by: opethPA

Explain to me why yelling "Allah Akbar" is a step too far for a training event?

I have to explain it to you?

mobile.twitter.com...

— G M Police (@gmpolice)May 9, 2016

#CTexercise. Exercise has been in planning since 2015. It’s not related to or in response to any recent incident or specific threat.

This is also why I found it strange. They said it was not connected to recent attacks in Paris or Brussels, which would of made sense for the training.

Rather, it's just another random training on the calender.

Again no big deal lol, just strange to me. I don't live in counter terrorism kind of field, so not so normal and I had no idea such training events happened at this scale.

originally posted by: opethPA
Explain to me why yelling "Allah Akbar" is a step too far for a training event?

Because it was WHOLLY UNNECESSARY, along with it being potentially damaging to the ongoing effort to reduce scaremongering and paranoia between communities in Manchester.

I know you like to uphold this bizarre fantasy that Muslim = Terrorist, but you are factually wrong in your beliefs.

Manchester has experienced terrorism in the past, and it wasn't Muslim's responsible for it.
Most of the terrorist acts perpetrated in London too have not been perpetrated by Muslims either.

a reply to: Elementalist

You'd be surprised just how many training exercises go on for a whole range of different groups. Fire, police, ambulance, Air Force, navy, army, private security, fire drills for normal companies, hacking prevention training drills and a million and one other things for different types of businesses and armed forces.

Where I lived before here we had a massive MOD forested area behind us. You could here the fire fights they had with blank ammo. Sounded like you were in the middle of a war zone lol.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Elementalist

You'd be surprised just how many training exercises go on for a whole range of different groups. Fire, police, ambulance, Air Force, navy, army, private security, fire drills for normal companies, hacking prevention training drills and a million and one other things for different types of businesses and armed forces.

Where I lived before here we had a massive MOD forested area behind us. You could here the fire fights they had with blank ammo. Sounded like you were in the middle of a war zone lol.

Surprised I was! Again, I had no idea such a scale of training for terrorist attacks went down.

Hence strange to me.. nothing wrong with it, it makes sense for sure.

People replying this thread act like sharks as if I had a wrong motif lol. Just sharing this, as it was over the news and Google, and definitely new to me!

originally posted by: Elementalist
I had no idea such training events happened at this scale.

We've had several over the last few years, two major training exercises in London which involved hundreds of people across all emergency services and involved multiple locations including disused underground stations, empty office blocks, underground parking areas...

Another drill involved vehicles used on what was almost a film set designed to create challenges the responders wouldn't expect.

These drills are not only used by those forces carrying out the exercises either, the results of these drills are shared across the country, the details published in internal documents for various forces to use, with the outcomes also used to change tactics across multiple services as they deem to apply.

This event in Manchester will now be looked over by every major force in the country, and the government too, and responding agencies will have access to new information and be required to comply with new methods of response and operation wherever there are identifiable benefits.

For example, there will be differences between responding to an attack like this in a shopping centre and responding to the same in an office block or an entertainment complex. These differences could mean life or death for hundreds of people.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: opethPA
Explain to me why yelling "Allah Akbar" is a step too far for a training event?

Because it was WHOLLY UNNECESSARY, along with it being potentially damaging to the ongoing effort to reduce scaremongering and paranoia between communities in Manchester.

I know you like to uphold this bizarre fantasy that Muslim = Terrorist, but you are factually wrong in your beliefs.

Manchester has experienced terrorism in the past, and it wasn't Muslim's responsible for it.
Most of the terrorist acts perpetrated in London too have not been perpetrated by Muslims either.

Being unnecessary doesn't mean it's not possible.
You dont train half way.

I also dont uphold any fantasy , I live in the real world and when I train for things in my profession we don't do it "half-way to not hurt feelings" because in a real world scenario feelings are going to get hurt.

originally posted by: Elementalist

originally posted by: opethPA

Explain to me why yelling "Allah Akbar" is a step too far for a training event?

I have to explain it to you?

mobile.twitter.com...

— G M Police (@gmpolice)May 9, 2016

#CTexercise. Exercise has been in planning since 2015. It’s not related to or in response to any recent incident or specific threat.

This is also why I found it strange. They said it was not connected to recent attacks in Paris or Brussels, which would of made sense for the training.

Rather, it's just another random training on the calender.

Again no big deal lol, just strange to me. I don't live in counter terrorism kind of field, so not so normal and I had no idea such training events happened at this scale.

Training isn't a reactionary scenario. "Oh look scenario A happened now lets frantically train for it"
Training is given with the intention of turning things into muscle memory.
That doesnt happen unless you do it often and with repetition.

originally posted by: Elementalist
People replying this thread act like sharks as if I had a wrong motif lol. Just sharing this, as it was over the news and Google, and definitely new to me!

Well, the fact that you put "training exercises" in quotes seems to suggest that you were suspicious of the motives, and that perhaps you were attempting to suggest that this is preparation for a "false flag" in the same way plenty of other conspiracy theorists seem to think that anyone making plans to deal with events is somehow "in on it" when something remotely similar happens.

Maybe you shouldn't allude to this in your OP if you don't want people to respond to that aspect of it?

a reply to: Elementalist

It is absolutely normal and essential we train everywhere all the time for many scenarios. You would hope we Do.

MS
EMT/ERT, 1st Responder
Advanced Disaster Life Support
FEMA/Homeland Security
Region 2 South, Wayne County, Michigan USA

originally posted by: opethPA
Being unnecessary doesn't mean it's not possible.
You dont train half way.

So by your reckoning they should now perform several more drills in exactly the same way, only replacing that single line of speech with "Independence for Ireland!"
Or another for "Get out of the Falklands!"
Or another for "God condemns Gay people!"
Or another for "Heil Hitler!"

After all, we don't want to leave out any of the threats our country faces, best to cover all bases, right?

Manchester has been attacked by the IRA, it hasn't been attacked by any Muslim.
London has been attacked by the IRA, and David Copeland (a homophobic, racist neo-Nazi), along with religious extremists.

originally posted by: opethPA
I also dont uphold any fantasy , I live in the real world and when I train for things in my profession we don't do it "half-way to not hurt feelings" because in a real world scenario feelings are going to get hurt.

You clearly don't live in the real world, because in that real world there are hundreds of thousands of peaceful Muslims in a community already feeling threatened by right-wing xenophobic sentiments of the ignorant.

If you were living in the real world you would understand that terrorism threats come from MULTIPLE sources, not just one cult faction calling itself Islamic. If you lived in the real world you would understand that using this in an exercise only serves ONE PURPOSE, and that's to cast aspersions and blame on a group of people for political means.

BTW, which profession are you in if you don't mind me asking?

originally posted by: Rocker2013
So by your reckoning they should now perform several more drills in exactly the same way, only replacing that single line of speech with "Independence for Ireland!"
Or another for "Get out of the Falklands!"
Or another for "God condemns Gay people!"
Or another for "Heil Hitler!"

After all, we don't want to leave out any of the threats our country faces, best to cover all bases, right?

Manchester has been attacked by the IRA, it hasn't been attacked by any Muslim.
London has been attacked by the IRA, and David Copeland (a homophobic, racist neo-Nazi), along with religious extremists.

When was the last time that a gay organization, Hitler or occupying force in the Falklands attacked anything?

Situational awareness , context , timing , all come into play.
That being said training isn't limited to one thing. Just because a specific event has an audible trigger of "Allah Akbar" does not mean a subsequent training scenario where domestic terrorism, cartel based operations or something else isn't accounted for.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
You clearly don't live in the real world, because in that real world there are hundreds of thousands of peaceful Muslims in a community already feeling threatened by right-wing xenophobic sentiments of the ignorant.

If you were living in the real world you would understand that terrorism threats come from MULTIPLE sources, not just one cult faction calling itself Islamic. If you lived in the real world you would understand that using this in an exercise only serves ONE PURPOSE, and that's to cast aspersions and blame on a group of people for political means.

BTW, which profession are you in if you don't mind me asking?

If you say so about me not living in the real world. In that grand scheme of life that matters as much as me saying your view on this is naive. In other words, it doesnt matter. =)

When did I say anything about there not being peaceful Muslims? I didn't what I said is that in the current world hearing that yelled prior to a terrorist attack is plausible. Just like hearing someone yell something about Trump in the US or hearing someone yell something about Southern Pride in the Southern US or hearing someone yell something about insert some other movement here is plausible before any event.

As for my profession I make complex phone systems work and in different industries that is what I have been doing for a long time. That doesn't preclude real world training scenarios where certain things get unexpectedly exploited and what the cascading impact of that would be.