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originally posted by: kykweer
Hi everyone,
My goal is to set out whether if you pass the event horizon of a black hole does the universe end?
you will be torn apart by a black hole approximately a tenth of a second before you hit the singularity, independent of the mass of the black hole.
There is actually experimental evidence that these kinds of black holes could not have gobbled up the Earth - the fact that the Earth has not yet been gobbled up!
originally posted by: Saint Exupery
originally posted by: kykweer
Hi everyone,
My goal is to set out whether if you pass the event horizon of a black hole does the universe end?
I've been pondering this for some years (and have posted elsewhere), and I believe the short answer is, yes - As you fall through the event horizon of a black hole, you watch the universe die.
One of the side-effects of this concerns mass distribution in and around a black hole. Generally, it has been assumed that all of the mass will be in the singularity at the heart of a black hole. However, for outside observers, I do not think this would be the case.
As the star collapses, at the moment the density increases to the point where the event horizon forms, the material will be divided into that which is within the event horizon and that which is not. That which is within the event horizon falls into the singularity. For us intrepid observers observing from a safe distance, the collapsing material outside the event horizon cannot (under General Relativity) ever fall through the horizon within the lifetime of the universe. Thus all of the mass of material falling into a black hole would appear to plate itself around the outside of the event horizon. However, observing this monatomic shell would be very difficult, since the light from it would be drastically red-shifted into the far radio spectrum.
originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: kykweer
Well let me start by saying our view of blackholes had changed a lot with quantum mechanics. The idea of an event horizon is gone. It's been replaced by what's called an apparent horizon. Meanin an area where things are slowed down but this is O KY temporary. Things can indeed escape a black hole it just tends to garbled up the information fitst. For example the beeps from her ship would be redshifed but also intermixed with a lot of other frequencies bouncing around inside. As far as time time can't stop never happen you can't have motion without time. So even in a black hole things will still move in fact falling into a super blackholes you wouldn't even notice. an apparent horizon suspends matter and energy from trying to escape — and when it does escape due to the wild fluctuations within a black hole. Quantum mechanics tells us yes particall can escape
However, this idea doesn't seem to address the firewall paradox at all, said Raphael Bousso, a theoretical physicist at the University of California, Berkeley. "It's not possible to have both of those things, to have no drama at the apparent horizon and to have the information come out," Bousso told SPACE.com. "Stephen just doesn't discuss this argument, so it's unclear how he means to address it." Don Page, physicist at the University of Alberta in Canada, agreed. "I do not think that eliminating event horizons by itself solves the firewall problem, which is a subtle problem," he wrote in an email. - See more at: www.space.com...
Fuzzballs (yes, fuzzballs) are the new black holes Samir Mathur, a professor of physics at The Ohio State University and sole author of the paper, says as you approach the fuzzball, your body will be destroyed but, oddly enough, you will not die. Rather, you'll be transformed into a copy of yourself, in the form of a hologram, that is forever embedded onto the surface of the fuzzball.
originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Here's my take.
When dealing with electricity, depending on what you need to power, determines what amperage and/or voltage that device/machine needs.
Think about your home and the electricity it receives in both Amps and Volts (amps being volume and volts being current). When you have a circuit receiving 120v but your device only needs 24v to operate, what you need than is a "step-down" transformer, let's call that the sun. Now conversely, let's say you need to send power a very long distance. To do that you need to "step up" the voltage because you lose it over distance. We shall call that a black hole.
originally posted by: carewemust
Are there geyser eruptions of material visible which are the output from a black hole that's present in another timeline, or universe? I mean, if something goes in, it comes out someplace...doesn't it?
originally posted by: Elementalist
I think you have me head spins and I don't like it
For myself personally, I care not of this black hole thing as it doesn't 'matter' (heh) to me regardless.
I'll never see one, experience one, or understand its nature whatever that maybe.
I'm more concerned why someone like yourself, OP, and those other minds alike, spin your minds with this redundant stuff?
I don't mean this in a condescending way, truely I can't understand why it actually means anything to such people, if meaning is even involved with such a mental pursuit.
It's interesting for sure, but to myself, very redundant.
"Black Holes", just are what they are. A galactic construct, a very nature created within the impossible.
It just is! I leave it at that and save the headache, heh.
Cheers
originally posted by: Gothmog
Susskind and Hossenfelder have just about laid Hawking's Radiation to rest. The problem that Hawking injected Hawking's Radiation for did not exist in the first place.
And , Einstein added time dilation because he was "stuck" and didnt know what to do . Took him over 2 years to add something he still wasnt sure about.
originally posted by: wildespace
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: kykweer
...I mean, when did it happen? It didn't happen during the infinite period that the outside observer was watching. So when?
What am I missing here?
Well, since time is relative to any frame of reference, the infalling person will experience time flowing normally. If they know their distance from the black hole, and that black hole's size, as well as their rate of acceleration towards it, they can calculate the moment they'd be going through the event horizon, just like you'd calculate the moment you'd hit the Earth's atmosphere when reentering from orbit.
I've read that, in reality, the traveller will never see themselves getting "immersed" into the blackness of the event horizon; it will seem to recede in front of them all the way to the singularity. A black hole isn't like a giant drop of ink into which you could dive, it's just a volume of spacetime curved by gravity to an extreme degree.
And to answer the OP, the traveller will see the universe speed up and blue-shift as they approach the event horizon. So yeah, by the strange application of the time-dilation working in the opposite way, the traveller at the event horizon will get blasted by huge amounts of X-rays and gamma rays from all that blue-shifted light coming from the universe, and actually see all of its future history unfold in an instant.
Mind. Blown.
originally posted by: wildespace
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: kykweer
...I mean, when did it happen? It didn't happen during the infinite period that the outside observer was watching. So when?
What am I missing here?
Well, since time is relative to any frame of reference, the infalling person will experience time flowing normally. If they know their distance from the black hole, and that black hole's size, as well as their rate of acceleration towards it, they can calculate the moment they'd be going through the event horizon, just like you'd calculate the moment you'd hit the Earth's atmosphere when reentering from orbit.
I've read that, in reality, the traveller will never see themselves getting "immersed" into the blackness of the event horizon; it will seem to recede in front of them all the way to the singularity. A black hole isn't like a giant drop of ink into which you could dive, it's just a volume of spacetime curved by gravity to an extreme degree.
And to answer the OP, the traveller will see the universe speed up and blue-shift as they approach the event horizon. So yeah, by the strange application of the time-dilation working in the opposite way, the traveller at the event horizon will get blasted by huge amounts of X-rays and gamma rays from all that blue-shifted light coming from the universe, and actually see all of its future history unfold in an instant.
Mind. Blown.
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
If the answer is "never", then does any additional mass actually ever make it past the event horizon? How does a black hole gain mass?
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: wildespace
I get that time dilation would make time move a different speeds for different points of view, but what I can't grasp is if the BH traveler really does (at some point during his perception of the passage of time) cross past the event horizon, then why can't the outside observer, who is watching forever, ever see that happening?
I mean, forever is a long time
originally posted by: wildespace
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: wildespace
I get that time dilation would make time move a different speeds for different points of view, but what I can't grasp is if the BH traveler really does (at some point during his perception of the passage of time) cross past the event horizon, then why can't the outside observer, who is watching forever, ever see that happening?
I mean, forever is a long time
But since time has been stretched infinitely long, the event can never be observed happen. It's like trying to get to the end of an infinitely long corridor. For an outsider, time at the event horizon slows down to a halt.
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
originally posted by: wildespace
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: wildespace
I get that time dilation would make time move a different speeds for different points of view, but what I can't grasp is if the BH traveler really does (at some point during his perception of the passage of time) cross past the event horizon, then why can't the outside observer, who is watching forever, ever see that happening?
I mean, forever is a long time
But since time has been stretched infinitely long, the event can never be observed happen. It's like trying to get to the end of an infinitely long corridor. For an outsider, time at the event horizon slows down to a halt.
But is there a point in time that the black hole traveler (or any matter) "experiences" crossing that event horizon -- i.e., does the traveler ever experience getting to "the end of the corridor"?
originally posted by: wildespace
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
originally posted by: wildespace
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
a reply to: wildespace
I get that time dilation would make time move a different speeds for different points of view, but what I can't grasp is if the BH traveler really does (at some point during his perception of the passage of time) cross past the event horizon, then why can't the outside observer, who is watching forever, ever see that happening?
I mean, forever is a long time
But since time has been stretched infinitely long, the event can never be observed happen. It's like trying to get to the end of an infinitely long corridor. For an outsider, time at the event horizon slows down to a halt.
But is there a point in time that the black hole traveler (or any matter) "experiences" crossing that event horizon -- i.e., does the traveler ever experience getting to "the end of the corridor"?
Yes, for the traveller the corridor is normal length.. I'm puzzled as to how you can't grasp this notion. For the traveller, time procedes normally, but for an outside observer, the black hole stretched time to infinity.