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Ancient Asian primate fossils, missing pieces of a major evolutionary puzzle?

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posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:23 AM
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Out of Africa eh? Well, Sorta...

These ancient Asian primate fossils might be the missing pieces of a major evolutionary puzzle

By Sarah Kaplan / The Washington Post

For decades, scientists thought that the story of human evolution was fairly straightforward: We and our primate ancestors evolved in Africa over millions of years, then started crossing continents and traversing seas to reach all the places we’re found today.

But then, in the 1990s, researchers in China made a surprising discovery: The fossil of a tiny monkeylike creature that was some 10 million years older than anything that had been found in Africa. The ancestors of apes, and ultimately us, seemed to have come from Asia. But they hadn’t stayed there.

“There were a lot of questions,” said K. Christopher Beard, a paleontologist at the University of Kansas. “What caused it was the biggest kind of cosmic question, because we always want to answer ‘why?‘ But even things like ‘when?’ and ‘how?’ were a mystery.”

Decades later, “the full story is only now emerging,” Mr. Beard said. And a new discovery could help fill in the gaps.


This is interesting. Chinese and Eurasian history have hidden pasts that we are now just unraveling. The Out of Africa model still holds but where from and how our ancient pre homo ancestors got there is becoming clearer and it's an interesting story. One that may tell us that Africa may not be the whole story.

Seems reasonable to assume that the Eurasian land mass would have had a MUCH larger part in the human history. 40 Million years ago the Earth was a much different place than it is today. Lots have changed and it should be of no surprise that wildlife habitats changed as well and that the wildlife would have adapted, migrated and resettled.

That is where our African family branch begins...

Enjoy




posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:32 AM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

The "out of Africa theory" is about the homo genus. This fossil (to me) seems to be pre homo genus, possibly an ancestor, possibly not.

There's just not enough information to get a solid picture about this fossil and how it relates to the homo genus, yet.

This is the first thing from your source...

For decades, scientists thought that the story of human evolution was fairly straightforward: We and our primate ancestors evolved in Africa over millions of years, then started crossing continents and traversing seas to reach all the places we’re found today.


The theory of evolution is far from straightforward and is still debated by scientists today. It's just the best explanation of evolution we have at the moment.

Wasn't meaning to dismiss your thread in anyway, just thought I should point out the above.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:36 AM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

I am tempted to say slowly slowly catchee monkey ancestors. However I do think that Chinese and Eurasian history is starting to reveal things that we are having to consider more carefully. I find the idea of a possible sunken landmass around Madagascar and the Lemurian legend very interesting so I hope we will get a to more information coming out.

Its hard to think about sea levels being very different to where they are today and as you say the world would have looked very different the further you go back. I see Mr Beard's dilemma over the when and how and look forward to more information in the future.

The out of Africa theory has never been something that has bothered me one way or the other and I am wondering if life started in a lot of places at the same time, its just that we haven't done enough research yet.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:42 AM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79
The "out of Africa theory" is about the homo genus. This fossil (to me) seems to be pre homo genus, possibly an ancestor, possibly not.

Wasn't meaning to dismiss your thread in anyway, just thought I should point out the above.


Not at all.

I think you just reiterated what I wrote though.


originally posted by: SLAYER69
The Out of Africa model still holds but where from and how our ancient pre homo ancestors got there is becoming clearer and it's an interesting story. One that may tell us that Africa may not be the whole story.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:44 AM
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originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: TerryDon79
The "out of Africa theory" is about the homo genus. This fossil (to me) seems to be pre homo genus, possibly an ancestor, possibly not.

Wasn't meaning to dismiss your thread in anyway, just thought I should point out the above.


Not at all.

I think you just reiterated what I wrote though.


originally posted by: SLAYER69
The Out of Africa model still holds but where from and how our ancient pre homo ancestors got there is becoming clearer and it's an interesting story. One that may tell us that Africa may not be the whole story.


Ah ok. Sorry, I must have misread that part as I missed the pre.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:53 AM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

Anywaaaay, back on topic lol

It's certainly an interesting theory. The migration of pre homo would just mean traveling thousands of miles as there was/is land mass between China and Africa so no need for any vehicles to traverse anything.

Be interesting to see if there's any fossils between the China primate and the first homo to see if there's a "map" of migration. I might just have to do that now



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 07:15 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 07:52 AM
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Decades later, “the full story is only now emerging,” Mr. Beard said. And a new discovery could help fill in the gaps.

More like chasms.

The 'full story of evolution is only now still emerging', lol. Because we like need proof that doesn't yet exist.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: SLAYER69
Out of Africa eh? Well, Sorta...

These ancient Asian primate fossils might be the missing pieces of a major evolutionary puzzle

By Sarah Kaplan / The Washington Post

For decades, scientists thought that the story of human evolution was fairly straightforward: We and our primate ancestors evolved in Africa over millions of years, then started crossing continents and traversing seas to reach all the places we’re found today.

But then, in the 1990s, researchers in China made a surprising discovery: The fossil of a tiny monkeylike creature that was some 10 million years older than anything that had been found in Africa. The ancestors of apes, and ultimately us, seemed to have come from Asia. But they hadn’t stayed there.

“There were a lot of questions,” said K. Christopher Beard, a paleontologist at the University of Kansas. “What caused it was the biggest kind of cosmic question, because we always want to answer ‘why?‘ But even things like ‘when?’ and ‘how?’ were a mystery.”

Decades later, “the full story is only now emerging,” Mr. Beard said. And a new discovery could help fill in the gaps.


This is interesting. Chinese and Eurasian history have hidden pasts that we are now just unraveling. The Out of Africa model still holds but where from and how our ancient pre homo ancestors got there is becoming clearer and it's an interesting story. One that may tell us that Africa may not be the whole story.


I think you should reiterate that the ancestor is NOT human and is in fact a possible ancestor for both apes and humans. It's apparently a very small critter (about the size of your average monkey.)

The group of fossils from China is a bit younger than I expect, though. I thought that the oldest ones of this group were on the order of 50 million years old.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

It is possible that the continent of India had its separate lineage that evolved when it broke away from southern Africa sometime ago. Have to remember India went on a 'high speed' collision course with its northern neighbour. Maybe they need to start looking in Madagascar and southern Africa for similar monkey like creatures in the ground. Or scour the fossil records.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

Interesting thing to think about. I often wonder about OOA and if it's just a very small part of the evolution of intelligence and awareness. Which to me is just as interesting as the physical evolution in nature.

It seems that nature also keeps evolving the capacity of the observers and the Ballance of sustainability for the global species.

It seems obvious we are going from simple to complex in both biological and mental capacities for experience and observation.

I think the monkey is a valid connection in physical anthropology of nature pushing forward the complexity of designs. The fact it predates African monkeys does bring up some exciting questions.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: SLAYER69

These inconvenient finds do seem to keep cropping up don't they...the Human remains found in a Middle-Eastern cave complex that are dated to up to 400,000 years old being just one.

I've stated many times that the evidence points to something much more complex than a simple 'out of Africa' scenario for our ancient migrations, becasue the evidence points to immigrations TO Africa and then mirgrations out again.

It wouldn't be too difficult to think that there have been numerous periods where our ancestors, for one reason or another, travelled into and out of Africa as circumstances required.

It could be that Humanity began in several places and developed independently, exchanging genetics periodically on an ad-hoc basis through happenstance and through conflict based 'trophies'. Stealing Children and Women from defeated foes or adopting orphans and those disposessed following catastrophy and diseases etc, would also be another possibility for traces of genetic material being found in the 'African' gene pool...it doesn't necessarily follow that those genes originated in Africa, only that at some point there were present there and interbred with the indiginous populations and so on.

In the 21st century, the majority of Humanity are literally citizens of the world..I don't personally think it's the first time.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: MysterX
These inconvenient finds do seem to keep cropping up don't they...the Human remains found in a Middle-Eastern cave complex that are dated to up to 400,000 years old being just one.


What is inconvenient about this find? The fact that it expands our knowledge?

It's funny how you post all this without even knowing what the article is about. It's not about a human or even member of the homo genus, it predates the homo genus and is a small monkey. Funny the conclusions people make. And no, the 400,000 year old human is NOT a problem for "Out of Africa" either.


I've stated many times that the evidence points to something much more complex than a simple 'out of Africa' scenario for our ancient migrations, becasue the evidence points to immigrations TO Africa and then mirgrations out again.


What evidence? You are comparing the origin of the human species to a monkey that predates the whole genus by 7 million years.


It wouldn't be too difficult to think that there have been numerous periods where our ancestors, for one reason or another, travelled into and out of Africa as circumstances required.


Of course not, but OOA doesn't counter that. The earliest hominid fossils all come from Africa. Do you have anything that counters this?


It could be that Humanity began in several places and developed independently, exchanging genetics periodically on an ad-hoc basis through happenstance and through conflict based 'trophies'.


So you are telling me that it's more logical for humans to evolve from ancient ape twice, separately, in 2 different locations, than for them all to share a common ancestor in Africa? Sorry I can't buy that. Africa is our origin, meaning the very first members of our species and our hominid ancestors are from Africa. No evidence points anywhere else. Remember, just because hominids migrated out and evolved outside of Africa as well, does not mean Africa is not the origin.

I swear most of the OOA opposition these days is racist in nature. You can tell by the raw emotion and conclusion jumping that is brought up in any thread that's related to it.
edit on 5 9 16 by Barcs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 03:20 PM
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originally posted by: MysterX
a reply to: SLAYER69

These inconvenient finds do seem to keep cropping up don't they...the Human remains found in a Middle-Eastern cave complex that are dated to up to 400,000 years old being just one.


The fossil isn't human. It's an ancestor -- a monkey-like creature. Not a member of the genus Homo (or even Australopithecus)



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: Barcs

Come on my friend.

It's not racist to think the term out of Africa is out of date. As people mingled in different environments and mixed with even some archaic humans the emperical knowledge was shared, these things have every bit to do with what people think of as human traits and evolution.

I think the difficult part is when considering mental and cultural evolution. Like who was using fire in that 300k old Qasem cave? Archaic man. But what else? What else did they teach the h.erectus. Having to create different solutions to new enviornemntal challenges and then trading information as trade and barter, marriages etc over 100k's of thousands of years created the knowledge pool humanity has used to survive.

It's hard to judge a human by just biology because our evolutionary strength is the mind and thought. So I think people confuse types of evolution. As far as human beings being the survivors as species we are, it is worth considering interacting observers like humans with global experiences being shared is a huge survival advantage for humans as a species.

Obviously primates are an evolutionary step in complexity of nervous system and observational intelligence. It is certainly interesting and makes one wonder how many migrations have actually happened. Animal, plant, human, etc. Natural disasters weather patterns, population all causing migrations. Stirring the pot.

It's not crazy to think we have no idea what really happened.
edit on 9-5-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: SLAYER69

Anywaaaay, back on topic lol

It's certainly an interesting theory. The migration of pre homo would just mean traveling thousands of miles as there was/is land mass between China and Africa so no need for any vehicles to traverse anything.

Be interesting to see if there's any fossils between the China primate and the first homo to see if there's a "map" of migration. I might just have to do that now

If I read it right, this is a monkey-ish creature from Asia the predates any African monkey-ish creature.

That's not just mildly amazing. It's astounding.

Is this what the article says? You know, the one I'm too lazy to go to and read?

Harte



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 04:16 PM
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a reply to: Harte

Part of the article says this

But then, in the 1990s, researchers in China made a surprising discovery: The fossil of a tiny monkeylike creature that was some 10 million years older than anything that had been found in Africa. The ancestors of apes, and ultimately us, seemed to have come from Asia. But they hadn’t stayed there.


I've been trying to do some digging, but I can't seem to find anything conclusive, just speculative.



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: TerryDon79
Thank God you replied.

For a minute there I was afraid I'd have to sit up and pay attention to something.

Harte



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: Harte
a reply to: TerryDon79
Thank God you replied.

For a minute there I was afraid I'd have to sit up and pay attention to something.

Harte


Can't be having people pay attention to things. Could you imagine what would happen to the world if that happened?



posted on May, 9 2016 @ 06:13 PM
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originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: Harte
a reply to: TerryDon79
Thank God you replied.

For a minute there I was afraid I'd have to sit up and pay attention to something.

Harte


Can't be having people pay attention to things. Could you imagine what would happen to the world if that happened?

Absolutely! It starts with the dissatisfaction that results from a marked lessening of torpor.

Harte



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