The flaws of capitalism and currency-based societies.

In a society where money is held as the number one object to have, more actions and choices are going to be made towards that end. The flaw in this model is that innovations, inventions, ideas, the workplace are not designed in a way to benefit humanity, they are not designed to improve our lives, enhance our living experience, spread knowledge far and wide - Unless such things earn a profit, or rather, dollars in our current system.

There are certainly some people who attempt to break this trend - At times the results are astounding. The website sourceforge, entire linux/unix operating systems, wikipedia and other such websites make every attempt possible to enhance our learning and computing experiences without the goal of money in mind.

Unfortunately, this is not enough. Food, water, shelter, electricity, degrees that can be applied to a meaningful and important careers, even ideas that are patented are all examples of things that limit our experiences due to the desire for profit in mind. We could very well invest in renewable and cheaper electricity, we could very well bring back the hydro-car that was on the news more than a decade ago, we could very well provide cheaper housing and schooling to all - If only money were not the driving factor in society.

This is not to say that those with ideas - our inventors and creators should not be rewarded - They certainly are the very types of people we should hold in high esteem, they should be respected and honored by those that benefit from their accomplishments - It is to say that to live within a society that is so currency-centric is to place it in the minds of everyone that this is the ultimate goal - To collect money. This mindset is not conducive to a truly enlightened society, and does not create a society in which is altruism - caring about others and about the benefit of mankind as a whole - rather than the self.

The most brilliant minds in history, the ones who have contributed the most in various areas were not seeking monetary gain. Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei ... Even more modern, Philo T Farnsworth did not invent the television with dollar bill signs in his eyes, even the man deemed smartest in the world and contributing in huge ways to science, Stephen Hawking, is worth far less than your average movie star or sports player.

I bring up this point to mention that invention, creation, intuitive ideas, ideas that contribute to the world do not require that a person have a capitalistic mindset, and in fact, the data suggests the opposite - That capitalism destroys true magnificence and human achievement.

What do you fellow board members think about this? I would like you hear your thoughts whether in agreement or disagreement - If you have anything to add, I look forward to reading.

Peace be with you

TheCentristPhilosopher

a reply to: TheCentristPhilosopher

I think the original currency was goods and services. A barter this for that kind of mutual (inter) dependancy. In cases the goods couldn't be delivered right away a promise was made to deliver at some later date. In lieu of just the promise it was also agreed upon to have collateral to guarantee payment. Soemthing tangible (held in the hand) and valuable everywhere (intrinsic value). Something that won't decay or rust over time (enter gold).

Everyone was happy, every thing worked.

Then enter the scammers that 'held' your gold for you and gave you a receipt. Over time they had all the gold and everyone else had only receipts. Enter the promissory note and Golden Rule.

You do understand that what we call capitalism today has been around for far longer than anyone had the innovative idea to label it? All it actually is is the free exchange of goods, services, ideas, etc., between people in such a way that each party benefits.

If I have two pens and you have paper, and I trade you a pen for some paper, we have engaged in trade the base of capitalism.

All money actually is is a means of reducing and standardizing value so that individuals can trade their individual goods and services more readily. In other words, if I am a scribe and you have a chicken I need but don't need my services, I can trade you money which represents the value of my skills. I received the money when I was paid for using them to write documents for someone else. You can take the money and give me the chicken, and in that way, the value of my service transfers to you and you can then use it for your own needs elsewhere.

Otherwise, I would have to search until I found someone who both had something you needed for the chicken and needed my skills as a scribe.

Money simplified those transactions by allowing the storage of value.

a reply to: intrptr

Thank you for your post, I very much agree with what you have said.

We now are left with receipts rather than with the gold. ( fiat currency )

a reply to: ketsuko

My apologies - I am talking about the current state of things, rather than the actual dictionary definition of capitalism.

I correct myself to mean corporatism.

The problem is, our money is not worth anything literal. Being backed by gold and silver was an amazing way to do it, in my opinion - Now we have money that's worthless in all but the reputation we give it.

a reply to: TheCentristPhilosopher


Yes, but more no...LOL.

The points you raise are valid.

What I believe you miss the factor of base survival. What I mean by that is capitalism has produced base survival for 100's of millions. Frankly, no other system is even close to it. For the intuitive, the creative to flourish base survival must not be the predominant issue in their lives. The more attention on base necessities the less attention is available for higher creativity.

The founding fathers where, one and all, were well educated men. One could say elitists.

To this day, capitalism is improving the lot of man-kind world-wide by producing a higher base survival for 100s of millions.

Without doubt some tweaking is required, A return of balance to a degree. Capitalism doesn't demand prayer to the 'almighty dollar'. It affords opportunity to those that choose to....

The rest are free to pursue other avenues of purpose and millions do.

Most of all, it is an individual issue....far more than systemic.


As valid as your points, are the premise is incorrect/incomplete.

originally posted by: TheCentristPhilosopher
In a society where money is held as the number one object to have

I pretty much stopped here. If the first sentence is a false premise, the rest of the essay will be likewise flawed.

a reply to: ketsuko

Money simplified those transactions by allowing the storage of value.

Becomes corrupted when middle men charge you to make, loan or hold it for you. In a small community everyone has a niche and outsiders bring in whats lacking. There is no need of 'banks', they manufacture that need and capitalize on others misfortune by charging interest in order to get control of real and tangible assets like property,manufacturing and goods.

They set out to do this, controlling all the money and access to it.

originally posted by: TheCentristPhilosopher
a reply to: ketsuko

My apologies - I am talking about the current state of things, rather than the actual dictionary definition of capitalism.

I correct myself to mean corporatism.

The problem is, our money is not worth anything literal. Being backed by gold and silver was an amazing way to do it, in my opinion - Now we have money that's worthless in all but the reputation we give it.

But you are making the same mistake so many make: you mix the economy in with the government.

Capitalism is not, and never has been, a governmental system. It is a way to describe the functioning of a free market system only.

When you throw out the word corporatism, you shift the goalpost from a purely economic discussion to one that involves politics and the government.

originally posted by: TheCentristPhilosopher
a reply to: intrptr

Thank you for your post, I very much agree with what you have said.

We now are left with receipts rather than with the gold. ( fiat currency )

They even want to do away with currency now, making all transactions electronic. That way they can charge for every transaction and take tax, too.

The smaller communities will return to barter only that will be considered 'black' marketing and criminal.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: TheCentristPhilosopher
a reply to: intrptr

Thank you for your post, I very much agree with what you have said.

We now are left with receipts rather than with the gold. ( fiat currency )

They even want to do away with currency now, making all transactions electronic. That way they can charge for every transaction and take tax, too.

The smaller communities will return to barter only that will be considered 'black' marketing and criminal.

And of course, they will also presume to have the ultimate control over everything we do economically.

I foresee a large gray or even black economy that returns to barter or even a simple scrip recognized between groups.

a reply to: intrptr


A fix is needed. Tweaking,
The basic premise of capitalism works.


I feel socialism breaks down drastically when it moves in scope beyond the community level. At the most a state level. (About an equivalent size to an average European nation.)

Likewise that same premise might be applied to capitalism....no larger than the nation it is founded in. No international corporations....just an idle thought...

Posters need more economics classes.

Western Snivelization uses a DEBT-based economic system; not 'currency-based'.

Money is merely a store of value, a place-holder, like so many poker chips in a game of Texas Hold-'em.

Debt is king. currency and all other goods decrease in value, so they are not favored assets. Debt however, grows without the holder needing to DO anything. So yeah, but it's a lot worse than you think.

Corporations are Vampires.

They are "fictive persons," which means that they are potentially immortal. They have all the civil rights of a mortal humans, including the power to own property, to sue and be sued. Every one of the 10 amendments to the constitution applies to them and protects THEM. But they can only be killed by the secretary of state that allowed them to be born.

How can craft specialization occur, and assembly lines run, without a currency?

a reply to: FlyingFox

I'm sure you have seen those fabulous humanoid robots Darpa has been working on for some time now and I'd just assume they will eventually fix things one way or the other by eliminating most labor or eliminating most humans in a terminator scenario.

Make the robots do the work and don't pay them just pay the citizens is the way I would go but perhaps the folks running the show would choose the option of making a bunch of thug robots to cleanse the earth to guide-stone standard of 500,000 bodies.

To me that number is too low and frankly stupid as a strategic move unless your technology was so advanced as to not need tons of people producing it so who knows.

a reply to: redempsh

We're not the only ones who "need more education."

You are again talking about a system in which the government and the economy are hopelessly tangled up.

Economy takes place with or without government. Capitalism is simply a term coined to describe what takes place absent government intervention in the economy - free exchange of goods and services between individuals. Statists need such a term in order to demonize it, so they can advocate for the supposed bliss of a state controlled and centrally planned economy in which the state is the economy. We have been moving in that direction.

Corporatism is just one more step in that direction.

More control via the state ensures that only the very largest can survive which self-selects for multi-national corporations and clears the new growth (small business) out of the forest so that only the very oldest and largest growth survives. Once those larger entities get to a certain size, they have the money to lobby and manipulate states and the system starts to become circular.

Adding more power to the system at the level of the state only feeds the decline. In short, if you think corporations are the root of all evil, then you need to look at the governments who aid and abet them and stop feeding yourself the silly statist lie that if you just give the government more power, they'll bust those evil businesses' balls because that isn't what's happening. In fact, it's all marching toward that grand one world vision isn't it?

originally posted by: TheCentristPhilosopher
The flaw in this model is that innovations, inventions, ideas, the workplace are not designed in a way to benefit humanity, they are not designed to improve our lives, enhance our living experience, spread knowledge far and wide - Unless such things earn a profit, or rather, dollars in our current system.

Yet innovation, invention and ideas have done so much to benefit humanity. The book, for instance, or the horse and cart. Granted the profit motive incentivises innovation, but that's partially because it covers risk. How many designs of the cart, or book failed?

a reply to: paraphi

And what is the alternative to private investment in innovation?



Generally speaking, a lot of people who are driven to invent and create do it because they take it up as a hobby on their own time and with their own money. It's when they stumble on something useful that they start thinking about the commercial applications.

When government subsidizes innovation it tends to create messes such as the ones we see in the video above because no one is really accountable for the resources used. At that point, they tend to not be used efficiently.

a reply to: ketsuko

Best to get out the cities now, find a small community, work to be recognized, accepted and trusted (thats a slow road), find that 'niche' and capitalize on it.

They do say buy local right? In the urban sprawl, that means farmers markets, flea markets and small, privately owned businesses.

a reply to: nwtrucker

The basic premise of capitalism works.

I agree. What we have is the corrupt version, hiding behind a mask of respectability.