NASA: Growing tropics driving high altitude clouds toward poles

This is interesting, ATS. Scientists at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies are saying that Climate Change is driving high altitude clouds toward(s) the North and South Poles. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Clouds will reflect sunlight back into Space thus helping the poles to stay cool as these clouds move to the respective poles. On the other end, the equator will get hotter as the clouds move away and there will be more evaporation leading to more rain, more powerful storms, etc....

NEW YORK, May 5 (UPI) -- A survey of 30 years worth of satellite data suggests high altitude clouds are shifting closer to the poles. Now, researchers have a good idea why. High altitude clouds are those found between three-and-a-half and six miles high. Some scientists have suggested the shifting jet streams are pulling middle-latitude cloud systems toward the poles. Scientists at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies designed a model to analyze the correlation between cloud positions and climatic factors. Their simulations suggest the expansion of the tropics and the circulation of air known as the Hadley cell are the primary drivers of the polar drift. "What we find, and other people have found it as well, is that the sinking branch of the Hadley cell, as the climate warms, tends to be moving poleward," George Tselioudis, a climate scientist at Goddard and Columbia University, said in a news release. "It's like you're making the tropical region bigger." Tselioudis and his colleagues published their findings this week in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. The Hadley cell circulation begins with rising air in the tropics, and as it pushes northward and southward away from the equators, it sinks back towards Earth's surface. As the tropics grow, these currents are pushing high-altitude clouds toward the North and South Pole. Cloud cover and cloud formation patterns play an important role in dictating the planet's climate, as their presence reflect a significant amount of sunlight, enduing them with a cooling presence. In their absence, land and sea absorb greater amounts of the sun's energy. The influence of global warming on cloud patterns -- and vice versa -- is an important part of understanding and predicting climate change. "If current behavior is not well simulated, then confidence in predicted future behavior will be lower," added Lazaros Oreopoulos, a cloud scientist at Goddard. "I anticipate this study to be looked at carefully and affect thinking on these matters."

So, it sounds to me like the balance in the Earth's ecosystem is about to be thrown off and I think the results could be catastrophic for life on this planet. I'm not a scientist but this is my take on the article. What says ATS?

www.upi.com...

Anything from the Climate Change narrative is highly suspect.

Before I'll believe anything that Billionaire Al Gore's group has to say ... I'll see it confirmed by multiple independent sources.

ETA: NASA is full of crap too. They'll say anything their masters tell them to. And ... if they don't want you to know the truth ... well ... that's because it's classified.

a reply to: lostbook

Clouds can also trap heat beneath them, as well as reflecting sunlight back into space.

They are a double edged sword at best!

originally posted by: Snarl
Anything from the Climate Change narrative is highly suspect.

Before I'll believe anything that Billionaire Al Gore's group has to say ... I'll see it confirmed by multiple independent sources.

ETA: NASA is full of crap too. They'll say anything their masters tell them to. And ... if they don't want you to know the truth ... well ... that's because it's classified.

Point taken. I can see NASA lying about things on other planets where one can't easily prove or dis-prove them, but it's not as easy for them to lie about things here on Earth. IDK, they could be lying but what if they aren't?

We expect the Earth to take whatever we dish out, even with ample evidence that her immune system is weakening.
Oh, what the hell. It's just a planet............

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: lostbook

Clouds can also trap heat beneath them, as well as reflecting sunlight back into space.

They are a double edged sword at best!

True. What could be the long-term results of high altitude clouds moving toward the equators? More good than bad or more bad than good?

originally posted by: lostbook
IDK, they could be lying but what if they aren't?

LOL ... there's nothing 'they' can do about it anyway. Remember all the stories that lambasted Gore for his personal 'going green' BS?

The whole Global Warming agenda is another attempt to tax and control the masses.

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: lostbook
IDK, they could be lying but what if they aren't?

LOL ... there's nothing 'they' can do about it anyway. Remember all the stories that lambasted Gore for his personal 'going green' BS?

The whole Global Warming agenda is another attempt to tax and control the masses.

Just because those in power are taking advantage of the situation doesn't mean that Climate change doesn't exist.

a reply to: lostbook

That's not what is happening here.

What is happening, according to the researchers, is that the clouds are moving toward the poles, the exact opposite of what you just suggested.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: lostbook

That's not what is happening here.

What is happening, according to the researchers, is that the clouds are moving toward the poles, the exact opposite of what you just suggested.

So, do you see this atmospheric change as a good thing? If so, why?

a reply to: Snarl

The whole Global Warming agenda is another attempt to tax and control the masses.

Right on, Snarl.

Although probably not in the way you think..... in fact, they are controlling us in the opposite way by getting us to contribute to the death of our own planet, and we pay them to do it.

And all they have to do is pay a bunch of 'scientists' to say it's all BS. Simple.

I find fault with this premise. The angle of the sun's radiation hitting the poles is a low angle unlike the equator where the sun's output is 85 to 90 degrees above. Like true brit said, the clouds could trap heat with the sun shining under them and the radiation reflecting off the extreme northern and southern snow and terrain creating a greenhouse effect to a certain extent. Still, the extreme angle of the radiation pattern through our atmosphere would be almost double of what it is at the equator, which would filter more of the heat, UV, etc. from the sun.

The high clouds coupled with low clouds over the poles may create a situation where the region between the two cloud layers would be warmer than between the lowest cloud cover and the ground. Interesting...

a reply to: lostbook

No I do not.

I believe that these clouds will trap heat underneath them, warming the poles. The poles do not need that sort of activity at the moment. They need to be allowed to cool, the ice caps need to heal and solidify to a greater degree than they are at the moment, and this will not happen if they are enshrouded by a blanket of cloud.

originally posted by: NightFlight
I find fault with this premise. The angle of the sun's radiation hitting the poles is a low angle unlike the equator where the sun's output is 85 to 90 degrees above. Like true brit said, the clouds could trap heat with the sun shining under them and the radiation reflecting off the extreme northern and southern snow and terrain creating a greenhouse effect to a certain extent. Still, the extreme angle of the radiation pattern through our atmosphere would be almost double of what it is at the equator, which would filter more of the heat, UV, etc. from the sun.

The high clouds coupled with low clouds over the poles may create a situation where the region between the two cloud layers would be warmer that between the lowest cloud cover and the ground. Interesting...

Thank you for figuring that out. (I mean, I couldn't)

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: lostbook

No I do not.

I believe that these clouds will trap heat underneath them, warming the poles. The poles do not need that sort of activity at the moment. They need to be allowed to cool, the ice caps need to heal and solidify to a greater degree than they are at the moment, and this will not happen if they are enshrouded by a blanket of cloud.

Thanks for that, True Brit. Your input is always wise and well spoken. Your premise makes me even more concerned for the potential outcome(s) if this is indeed true.

originally posted by: Snarl
Anything from the Climate Change narrative is highly suspect.

Before I'll believe anything that Billionaire Al Gore's group has to say ... I'll see it confirmed by multiple independent sources.

ETA: NASA is full of crap too. They'll say anything their masters tell them to. And ... if they don't want you to know the truth ... well ... that's because it's classified.

I'm pretty sure the Goddard Institute isn't part of Al Gore's "group", and this research is looking to make more accurate predictions based on evidence-based science. Could it be misappropriated to ultimately justify "carbon taxes", etc.? Sure, but that doesn't make the actual science and research wrong, it would just mean someone misappropriated it to serve their needs.

Let's not ignore factual observations just because folks with an agenda might use them to support their nefarious ends.

originally posted by: lostbook
Clouds will reflect sunlight back into Space thus helping the poles to stay cool as these clouds move to the respective poles.

Not high-altitude clouds. High-level clouds have more of a heat-trapping effect and thus provide a positive (warming) feedback, so the overall effect here on the poles would be more warming, not cooling.

Cloud feedback is the biggest unknown/wild card in determining climate sensitivity. It's complicated stuff, but there's some good info here: What is the net feedback from clouds?


There is more to this though than just migrating clouds. If the sinking branch of the Hadley cell is moving poleward, then this would also likely displace a lot of other things poleward, such as the world's deserts. Southern Europe could become the new Sahara.

originally posted by: mc_squared

originally posted by: lostbook
Clouds will reflect sunlight back into Space thus helping the poles to stay cool as these clouds move to the respective poles.

Not high-altitude clouds. High-level clouds have more of a heat-trapping effect and thus provide a positive (warming) feedback, so the overall effect here on the poles would be more warming, not cooling.

Cloud feedback is the biggest unknown/wild card in determining climate sensitivity. It's complicated stuff, but there's some good info here: What is the net feedback from clouds?

There is more to this though than just migrating clouds. If the sinking branch of the Hadley cell is moving poleward, then this would also likely displace a lot of other things poleward, such as the world's deserts. Southern Europe could become the new Sahara.

Thanks for the info. Wow! This makes sense per climate change.

originally posted by: lostbook

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: lostbook
IDK, they could be lying but what if they aren't?

LOL ... there's nothing 'they' can do about it anyway. Remember all the stories that lambasted Gore for his personal 'going green' BS?

The whole Global Warming agenda is another attempt to tax and control the masses.

Just because those in power are taking advantage of the situation doesn't mean that Climate change doesn't exist.

1. Please check the core temperature of our planet.
a. For perspective, at just 8 miles below the surface (not the middle of the planet) temperatures have been recorded at a blistering 350+ degrees Fahrenheit. At the core (some 4000 miles below your feet), temps are estimated in the 12,000+ Fahrenheit range.
b. All that heat radiates outwards.
2. The recorded impact of the Sun's behavior on temperature. Nothing in the entire solar system has a greater influence on the temperatures of the Earth (both above and below the surface).

In your studies you will come to the conclusion that aping the monologue of Climate Change is a pathetic scam and a waste of time leading to the continued dumbing-down of the population at large.

Scientific speculation of greenhouse gasses (and their effects on atmospheric temperatures) is just that ... speculation. When you can come back and show me where an experiment has been conducted ... and repeated with the exact same results ... on a planetary scale (that's everything considered e.g. gravity, space, orbital velocity, relative galactic location, etc.) I'll begin to consider the basics of The Scientific Principle to be met. It nags me when pure speculation is called Science ... when it Is ... at best, Theory/Official Story/Controlled Narrative.

One has to realize we're existing in the middle of an ice age to understand that there is a distinct probability that we're emerging from it. It's a 50/50 chance when guessing that the temperature will go up and down (when in fact it always has and will always continue to do so). Gore and the liberals guessed wrong when they said it would rise dramatically. He's made his millions (a billion if you believe everything you hear) ... and left all the poor folk holding the bag and repeating/defending bad information like they were poorly programmed robots serving on the wrong team.

Idle political speculation is a tool to control. **Backs slowly away from the Kool-Aid.

The earth has been through multiple catastrophic changes and look where we are now..

Just 13000 years ago there was a 2 mile thick sheet of ice covering the North American continent and were fine.