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originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Profusion
The National Debt belongs to the corporation UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, INC. Which has responsibility for it since our country incorporated in 1871. People are not owned by any corp. and tgerefore, do not owe any portion of the National Debt. The 10 square miles that makes up Washington DC are sole owners of that debt.
originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Profusion
I am no more inclined to post a specific example of things working the way I understand them to work, than you are to post a specific and exactly relevant example of them working differently than that!
“But what if you put yourself in a corporate form?” Justice Thomas asked, suggesting that the answer must be the same.
Asked about his attitude toward the two decisions overruled in Citizens United, he said, “If it’s wrong, the ultimate precedent is the Constitution.”
www.lonelyconservative.com...
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Profusion
The debt needs to be repaid, however if the creditors agree to lower the debt that is their prerogative. Unilaterally lowering the legal debt is not permitted but if your creditors agree than
what is the issue?
The Biggest Owner Is You!
Debt Held by the Public - Foreign governments and investors hold nearly half of the nation's public debt. One-fourth is held by other governmental entities, like the Federal Reserve, and state and local governments. Fifteen percent is held by mutual funds, private pension funds, savings bonds or individual Treasury notes. The rest is owned by businesses, like banks and insurance companies, and an assortment of trusts, companies, and investors. Here's the breakout:
--Foreign - $6.175 trillion
--Federal Reserve - $2.461 trillion
--Mutual Funds - $1.056 trillion
--State and Local Government, including their pension funds - $803 billion
--Private Pension Funds - $403 billion
--Banks - $515 billion
--Insurance Companies - $293 billion
--U.S. Savings Bonds - $174 billion
--Other (individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors) - $1.198 trillion. (Sources: Federal Reserve, Factors Affecting Reserve Balance, April 6, 2016. Treasury Bulletin, Ownership of Federal Securities, Table OFS-2, as of June 2015)
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Huh? China does not buy United States debt instruments in return for selling us merchandise, the Treasury Bills they purchase are redeemable in the future with interest.
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
But in the end it is still just a pieces of paper we only honor if we feel like it...
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: JoshuaCox
Huh? China does not buy United States debt instruments in return for selling us merchandise, the Treasury Bills they purchase are redeemable in the future with interest.
originally posted by: ScepticScot
Well indirectly they do.
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: ScepticScot
Well indirectly they do.
That is not what the other poster was implying.
Asked whether the United States needed to pay its debts in full, or whether he could negotiate a partial repayment, Mr. Trump told the cable network CNBC, “I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal.”
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
But in the end it is still just a pieces of paper we only honor if we feel like it...
You can look at it that way or you can see that not honoring Treasury Bills sold to foreign nations would only devalue the Treasury Bills we own as citizens since we are the largest holders of our own debt.
originally posted by: ScepticScot
...there is no real difference between dollars held overseas and debt held overseas other than one pays interest.
originally posted by: JoshuaCox
If we went to war with China, do we pay our debts? Nope
If China decided " screw you...we are calling in all of our debts!" Do we financially bankrupt ourselves to pay it or give them Alaska as payment?? Nope
originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
originally posted by: ScepticScot
...there is no real difference between dollars held overseas and debt held overseas other than one pays interest.
There is a huge difference, dollars held solely as currency are removed from the economy.
originally posted by: ScepticScot
Not sure I follow. Dollars held outside the US will one day be spent in the US exact same way as debt held outside the US will one day be redeemed and spent in the US.
originally posted by: ScepticScot
Yes but the dollars are still dollars and still reflect potential future spending in the economy the exact same way as the debt does.