Chemtrails over the South West of the UK

a reply to: TerryDon79

If you read my original post I was asking about this because I hadn't considered it before.. However I did look up what our government has 'dropped on us from the skies in the past' and was somewhat disgruntled.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What I am thinking is that if a government was happy to experiment by dropping chemicals in the past onto its people, can we be sure they would 't do something like that again? I think we both know the answer to that.

But i don 't know about chemtrails and so I am keeping an open mind - if they exist more proof will appear, if they don't then no proof will appear. However I do think it dangerous to write off anything in the pollution world that can have adverse affects on our lives today especially with the cancer rates so high. Something is affecting our health in a way it didn't in the past.

a reply to: riley

Monsanto not welcome anymore,tThat is something we should be grateful for. That was a wicked idea that disgusting company had.

Like yourself I am keeping an open mind and will watch for more information as it appears. Its not the biggy in my bother box at the moment and I am not passionate about it bunt it is something to watch.

I've been looking into the Porton Down experiments a bit more. I was particularly interested in the delivery method used on the planes, to see if it looked anything like what's commonly pointed to as 'chemtrails', despite their appearance being that of contrails.

You have to keep in mind that what are commonly called 'chemtrails' exist at some 7 miles and higher altitudes. Just that fact casts doubt on them being chemicals intended to affect people on the ground, because having the trails that high up there makes the area they're going to affect unpredictable. By the time it reaches the ground (if it does so at all) the chemicals will have been diluted to the point of being undetectable. Also, you have no control over what area they're going to affect. They may drift for hundreds if not thousands of miles before coming close to the ground.

Mike Kenner, a campaigner who investigated these trials said the following about this:

"Even more importantly, PTP No 885 revealed that the chemical compound used in the 1963 Cardington field trials (ZnCds) was sprayed by Porton scientists from a moving vehicle.

"This would have placed local Bedfordshire residents in much closer proximity to the source of sprayed ZnCds than previous trials, which had sprayed the ZnCds from an aircraft.

"Spraying this material from ground level could have led to a much higher received dosage of inhaled ZnCds amongst residents living close to the route of the Porton spray vehicle.

www.bbc.co.uk...

And here is a video of said aircraft in action. Yup that's right, for maybe the very first time in your life you're going to see an ACTUAL CHEMTRAIL being sprayed from an aircraft. Pay close attention to the following:

1-At which altitude does the aircraft fly? Is it at cruise altitude? (IE about 7 miles altitude)
2-Does the chemtrail persist, or does it pretty much disperse immediately after being sprayed, making it close to being invisible?
3: Does it look anything like what's commonly pointed out as being 'chemtrails'?

Well here we go:



So I think we can conclude the following from this:

1: Governments have conducted clandestine experimental spraying to see how biological warfare agents might spread among the population. The chemical that was supposed to simulate such an agent (Zinc Cadmium sulphide) probably wasn't as harmless as it was claimed to be.

2: Said agents were sprayed from ships, cars and airplanes, where spraying from airplanes (from low altitudes, see video) was considered to be less effective

3: From the above we can conclude that spraying anything from 7 miles up would be very inefficient if your goal is to have an effect on the ground.

4: Spraying chemicals doesn't result in persistent contrails.

originally posted by: riley

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: riley

Frankly I am surprised that the Wright brother's planes created contrails but okay then.

They didn't. They didn't fly high enough.

Precisely which is why the hundred years ago claim is ridiculous. Thankyou for yet another correction though!

Nobody except you mentioned the Wright brothers. I said *almost* a century ago. The link that Phage posted (and which i am long familiar with) covers a sighting in 1919. 97 years ago. Almost a century, which is what I said. Do you REALLY need to be hand held through reading basic english? Kind of makes any debate with you feel like talking to a small child, and I'd much rather have a proper conversation. I'm sure you can do that.

Again I know what contrails are.. I have said this several times and have spent alot of my life observing aircraft. It has been a hobby. I didn't realize I was supposed to include "a mixture of water. ice and exhaust" every time I said I know what bloody contrails are because I shouldn't need to.

No, you shouldn't. but if you switch from saying 'water vapour' to 'contrail' within one sentence of being asked, when they are different, then clarification of your own understanding is very necessary or you end up with pointless debates about semantics, as above.

Me just saying I know what contrails are should have been enough.. yet you kept persisting insisting I didn't.

That is trolling. Troll someone else.

excet ypou said you know what water vapour looks like, not contrails. See? it was your own fault.

a reply to: Shiloh7

However I did look up what our government has 'dropped on us from the skies in the past' and was somewhat disgruntled.

You should also remember the time it happened and why...not saying it was right, but sometimes there is a reason for the madness.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What I am thinking is that if a government was happy to experiment by dropping chemicals in the past onto its people, can we be sure they would 't do something like that again? I think we both know the answer to that.

But i don 't know about chemtrails and so I am keeping an open mind - if they exist more proof will appear, if they don't then no proof will appear. However I do think it dangerous to write off anything in the pollution world that can have adverse affects on our lives today especially with the cancer rates so high. Something is affecting our health in a way it didn't in the past.

one thing is consistent about all the times "they" dropped things on the people without consent. Can you pin point it?

The elevation they used. At no point did they fly up to 6 miles altitude to drop their chemicals, they did it from ground level, roof tops, and crop dusters. There is a reason for that. I'll let you deduce it.

a reply to: Shiloh7

I think we both know the answer to that.

Really what's my answer to that?

You see I understand the fact it was wrong, but I also understand the reason it was done, and the world was a very different place at the time.

As for doing it now...where is the proof, as in proof that someone can show that it was taken directly from a chemtrail in the air...because anything other than that is not proof.

if they exist more proof will appear, if they don't then no proof will appear.

You would think after 20 years something would have...and yet nothing, I can't imagine why?

However I do think it dangerous to write off anything in the pollution world that can have adverse affects on our lives today especially with the cancer rates so high. Something is affecting our health in a way it didn't in the past.

See now talking about pollution I have always asked those who believe in chemtrails why they think something that is 7 miles above their heads would effect them more than this...





SO if something is being sprayed the chance it would effect you on the ground are slim to none compared to what effects you closer to the ground.

Also until someone actually tests a so called chemtrail in the sky I can say they don't exist, because in all the years I have been in these discussions not one person has ever done it...and that tells me something.

originally posted by: riley

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Slightly off topic. ..but you realise no one cares about where you live other than with regards to the topic of this thread

Aww don't scare my readers off they don't know I know.

I live on manor gardens off holloway road in North London. Oh no! Here come tptb to....do something to me.

Yep now go to the religion forum and shout some hatred there.

Also. Debunkers are backing what they say with proven science and logistical data. Feel free to do the same. Please do as it will make things far more interesting.

Indeed I have been researching and I am trying to find objective data. It is a highly complex subject which I am undecided on.

This isnt a religious forum and no one is inciting hatred. So, im not sure why that matters. Plus you missed my point, being that no one cares since they dont know who you are, to say that you are not ready to post images as you would have to paint out the tell tale signs of the location they were taken is ludicrous. In my opinion.

As for your last point. It really isnnt a highly complex matter. Its so simple to see how idiotic the chemtrail conspiracy is. Thats why i keep coming back, its entertaining. These are the irrefutable facts:

- Millions of pilots, chemical engineers, aircraft technitians, government agents etc would not spray anything willingly since that means they would be spraying themselves, their loved ones etc...

- The chemical tanks cant be emptied without the pilots knowledge since they would notice the HUGE shift in weight and centre of gravity of the plane. The handling would also be different.

- It cant be in the fuel since modern jet engines are marvels of engineering and highly complex and f*cking expensive and they would get destroyed very quickly with impurities in the fuel. Try putting some metal particles, sand, salt etc in your car and see how far you get before you have to replace the engine.

-And the biggest one of all...no plane can carry anywhere close to the amount of stuff (anything) needed to create a trail hundreds of miles long in the sky. its IMPOSSIBLE. Not just a little impossible, very very very impossible.

-The chemtrail pushers that chemmies listen to have been caught lying so many times, its not even fun to expose them anymore.

-All the facts we have given you here and in the hundreds of other similar posts are open for you to pick apart. Please tell us what we got wrong.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What I am thinking is that if a government was happy to experiment by dropping chemicals in the past onto its people, can we be sure they would 't do something like that again? I think we both know the answer to that.

I completely agree. Not just from aircraft but sprayed from trucks too, which is much deadlier. However that has no similarity to "chemtrails". It's just something that chemtrail believers have pointed to in the past, another example of them having to talk about something else to justify chemtrails because there is nothing of substance to talk about regarding chemtrails themselves. Their chemtrails are ALWAYS criss-crossing and grid patterned white lines in the sky which "normal contrails cannot do". Except we know they can. They do. A contrail hundreds of miles long (about 400 miles minimum where "horizon to horizon" claims are concerned) can ONLY exist in that fashion because they are made from water vapour that is already present in the air the plane has flown through and the water produced by the combustion of fuel. Any measure, or even close guesstimate, of the volume of such a trail SHOULD make it immediately apparent that no aircraft can carry anything remotely close to the capacity required to "spray" such a vast amount of materiel over such a long distance as to make a trail much wider than the wingspan of the plane that made it that is thick enough to be seen from the ground.

Chemtrails, as pictured and feared by people who simply don't know any better, are contrails. For them not to be contrails someone needs to show how so much materiel can be disbursed from an aeroplane. The maths involved are so ridiculous that I would even let them off having to also account for fuel, crew and passengers or freight in said aircraft and the maths are still impossible.

But i don 't know about chemtrails and so I am keeping an open mind - if they exist more proof will appear, if they don't then no proof will appear. However I do think it dangerous to write off anything in the pollution world that can have adverse affects on our lives today especially with the cancer rates so high. Something is affecting our health in a way it didn't in the past.

But also bear in mind that if you are talking about secret government experiments, you are talking about another subject that shackling with chemtrails can only do harm to. If chemtrail conspiracists were genuinely talking about government spraying ops, including SRM GE experiments as they often try to claim, they they wouldn't fall back on photos of thick voluminous contrails seven miles in the sky. And we know that the ALWAYS do. Look on any chemise site you like.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
but their constant location is interesting. It's not just the last few days (that's just when I've been filming it) ... it always seems the case and I just find it bizarre.

So exactly which flight number, and where are they coming from and going to?

You have checked, so obviously you know!

Nice tone. I haven't checked flight numbers.. I see them covering the sun at sunset all the time. I know no more and never claimed to.

Learn to talk to people with the same respect you expect.

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
I haven't checked flight numbers.

Of course you have not, as if you had done that you would know exactly where the planes were flying to and from, also their height.... and there goes your silly conspiracy theory!

originally posted by: MrConspiracy

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
but their constant location is interesting. It's not just the last few days (that's just when I've been filming it) ... it always seems the case and I just find it bizarre.

So exactly which flight number, and where are they coming from and going to?

You have checked, so obviously you know!

Nice tone. I haven't checked flight numbers.. I see them covering the sun at sunset all the time. I know no more and never claimed to.

Learn to talk to people with the same respect you expect.

Covering the sun? From where you live? What about covering the sun for people 400 miles away? or are the chemtrails they are spraying directed solely at the people in your vicinity? Have you given that any thought? Can you blame us for taking this tone?

I mean, thinking they are spraying people to kill them or something is bad enough, but thinking they are spraying to cover the sun has to rank right at the bottom of the intelligent argument index. Covering the sun? That tiny little strip that is between you and the sun wont be for someone else somewhere else mate. Please use your common sense.

a reply to: hellobruce

What? im stating what I see. All I said was I find it weird. I never assumed anything - you did.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

Actually, you did assume something. In your second post you asked "why are they doing it?" This assumes that someone is doing something deliberately to make those trails in that place. The altogether more likely and humdrum notion that these are simply the wakes left by regular air traffic doesn't seem to appear possible to you. Why always in the same place? Maybe because air routes are fairly static and the sun always sets in the west.

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: MrConspiracy

Actually, you did assume something. In your second post you asked "why are they doing it?" This assumes that someone is doing something deliberately to make those trails in that place. The altogether more likely and humdrum notion that these are simply the wakes left by regular air traffic doesn't seem to appear possible to you. Why always in the same place? Maybe because air routes are fairly static and the sun always sets in the west.

Lol. No... I asked why. I assumed nothing. Asking "why" something is happening is not assuming. It's asking why.... I never assumed that the "something" was anything other than, as you like to put it, "wakes left by regular air traffic".... It probably is. But if I stop asking why and just take the easiest option and presume it's that - then I shouldn't be on this website. And neither should you.

Also how do you know what appears possible to me? From me pointing out one thing i've noticed in the sky. You're making a mighty leap.

I just noticed a correlation at sunset. That is literally ALL I did.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: MrConspiracy

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
but their constant location is interesting. It's not just the last few days (that's just when I've been filming it) ... it always seems the case and I just find it bizarre.

So exactly which flight number, and where are they coming from and going to?

You have checked, so obviously you know!

Nice tone. I haven't checked flight numbers.. I see them covering the sun at sunset all the time. I know no more and never claimed to.

Learn to talk to people with the same respect you expect.

Covering the sun? From where you live? What about covering the sun for people 400 miles away? or are the chemtrails they are spraying directed solely at the people in your vicinity? Have you given that any thought? Can you blame us for taking this tone?

I mean, thinking they are spraying people to kill them or something is bad enough, but thinking they are spraying to cover the sun has to rank right at the bottom of the intelligent argument index. Covering the sun? That tiny little strip that is between you and the sun wont be for someone else somewhere else mate. Please use your common sense.

I noticed a correlation at sunset. It seemed bizarre that the whole sky was clear but the sunset was covered. Quite frequently. I say no more as to what that means - as I'm sure it's benign.

I'll never point anything out again. Those who believe they are above everyone and bash people for pointing something out are the reason I dislike this place at times.

Some people can't state something without being branded a lunatic.

a reply to: MrConspiracy

Keep asking questions. It's the best way to learn new things. 90% of the time, information is offered and it's something you aren't looking to hear, so you don't retain much of it, but when it's a topic you specifically asked about, you tend to retain most of the information, as you are actively wanting to know it. (at least that's how it is with me)

originally posted by: MrConspiracy

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: MrConspiracy

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
but their constant location is interesting. It's not just the last few days (that's just when I've been filming it) ... it always seems the case and I just find it bizarre.

So exactly which flight number, and where are they coming from and going to?

You have checked, so obviously you know!

Nice tone. I haven't checked flight numbers.. I see them covering the sun at sunset all the time. I know no more and never claimed to.

Learn to talk to people with the same respect you expect.

Covering the sun? From where you live? What about covering the sun for people 400 miles away? or are the chemtrails they are spraying directed solely at the people in your vicinity? Have you given that any thought? Can you blame us for taking this tone?

I mean, thinking they are spraying people to kill them or something is bad enough, but thinking they are spraying to cover the sun has to rank right at the bottom of the intelligent argument index. Covering the sun? That tiny little strip that is between you and the sun wont be for someone else somewhere else mate. Please use your common sense.

I noticed a correlation at sunset. It seemed bizarre that the whole sky was clear but the sunset was covered. Quite frequently. I say no more as to what that means - as I'm sure it's benign.

I'll never point anything out again. Those who believe they are above everyone and bash people for pointing something out are the reason I dislike this place at times.

Some people can't state something without being branded a lunatic.

I never called you a lunatic. But do i think that saying they can cover the sunset, without thinking that it wouldn't be covered from someone else position, is the smartest thing to say? No i don't,

Please keep asking question. Please, its the best way to learn. Just use your common sense before posting an observation and then getting all defensive when something is pointed out.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The only point I was making was that if a government has done it in the past its not that unlikely it could do it again or use an outside agent to experiment etc.

I take your point about the pollution we make ourselves - or the fuels and industry we have to use provide pollution in amply proportions. I worked in a coal fired power station and know what escaped through the baffles we had in place.
We also in London have the history of coal fires and the smogs we use to live in, so our bodies are not unfamiliar with pollution and neither is our health care with cases of bronchitis.

However were you wanting to experiment or in fact in the case of civil war use chemical weapons chemtrails would be a means at the necessary altitude to distribute your poison. Just how much industrial muck is being sprayed from planes though is questionable.