Chemtrails over the South West of the UK

so if they have talked about doing it, patented technology to do it, and all it involves ins flying a jet, why is it so hard to believe they are doing it ?

They're talking about going to mars, have the technology (in principle) to do it, and all it involves is flying a rocket. Yet they haven't done it yet.

The difference of course is that going to mars is actually on the agenda. Geoengineering is only a proposal, the thought being that it's better to have a remedy but not need it than to need it but not have it.

It'd be easy to believe if there was evidence that it was going on. But there isn't. There's jjust people pointing at contrails who can't talk about contrails for a minute without sounding like an amateur. Chemtrail 'theory' is based on ignorance of pertinent subjects such as meteorology and aviation, is my finding so far.

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Geoengineering is definitely possible. People have already done stupid things with it. Chemtrails, as defined by pretty much everyone that believes in them however, aren't.

a reply to: Phage

For refusing to stand to attention and say exactly what contrails are, or get specific about the visibility of water vapor within visible contrails.. (the transparency of water vapor is not relevant in that context) despite my already knowing? You seem to have an axe to grind with me.. it would not matter how many times I say "I already know" you will try imply that I don't regardless of what I post. That comes across as seething trolling.

You have successfully derailed the thread and reduced it to being about whether or not water vapor is invisible despite it being an off topic irrelevancy. Congratulations on that I have no doubt that was your intent.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: syrinx high priest

Geoengineering is definitely possible. People have already done stupid things with it. Chemtrails, as defined by pretty much everyone that believes in them however, aren't.

Currently geoengineering is my suspicion. I am not sure what point they go from contrails to qualifying as chemtrails. I assumed once something has been added to effect change in environment then it would be considered a chemtrail.

Again I know what contrails are.. I have said this several times and have spent alot of my life observing aircraft. It has been a hobby. I didn't realize I was supposed to include "a mixture of water. ice and exhaust" every time I said I know what bloody contrails are because I shouldn't need to.

Well you also said several times that you know what water vapor looks like. That's kindof funny because it;s invisible.

So that kindof casts doubt on your statement that you also know what contrails are. In chemtrail circles it's actually really rare to know what a contrail really is. Every time I ask believers about technicalities I get evasive answers, if any at all.

But since you do know what they are, you should also be able to tell in which way they differ from a Cirrus cloud as far as their makeup is concerned.

I'm also still curious about what you consider a good scientific source on contrails. Care to shed some light on that?

a reply to: Zaphod58

It's one of the biggest shifting of the goal posts in the history of conspiracy theories.

For years chemtrails were apparently poisoning us, then along came geoengineering and suddenly chemtrails are geoengineering...

a reply to: Chadwickus

Yeah it was. And now it's poisoning us, while altering the atmosphere, while .

originally posted by: payt69
Well you also said several times that you know what water vapor looks like. That's kindof funny because it;s invisible.

So that kindof casts doubt on your statement that you also know what contrails are. In chemtrail circles it's actually really rare to know what a contrail really is. Every time I ask believers about technicalities I get evasive answers, if any at all.

Seriously? People explain what contrails are and we say "Yes I know what they are.."
..and then others scream "but hey they're water vapor!"

..and then we of course agree because it is indeed partially true and again we say:

"Yes we know what contrails are.."

..you and your like minded friends try hang us by that crooked nail and scream "conspiracy theorist!" "ignorance!" after setting us up on that offtopic irrelevancy?



Yes water and water vapor is see through.. but you guys seem obsessed with this fact. I'm not being evasive I just do not think it is relevant as both contrails and chemtrails would have water content.

We all agree on that now go troll elsewhere.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: Zaphod58

It's one of the biggest shifting of the goal posts in the history of conspiracy theories.

For years chemtrails were apparently poisoning us, then along came geoengineering and suddenly chemtrails are geoengineering...

I never actually gave the issue any credence until seeing the skies change for myself. To be honest I am still on the fence as to their purpose but they seem very intentional above my area. The heat waves that accompany them also seem to be consistent.

a reply to: riley

Contrails have been found to reduce daily temperature, so how are they causing heat waves? When comparing temperatures in areas that have a high contrail count they found a 5-6 degree lower temperature when compared to areas that didn't have contrails.

They found that contrails depress the difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures, typically decreasing the maximum temperature and raising the minimum temperature. In this respect, the contrail clouds mimic the effect of ordinary clouds.

The researchers report that the "diurnal temperature range was statistically significantly reduced at outbreak stations versus non-outbreak stations." In the South, this amounted to about a 6 degree Fahrenheit reduction in daily temperature range, while in the Midwest, there was about a 5 degree Fahrenheit reduction. Temperatures the days before and after the outbreaks did not show this effect, indicating that the lower temperatures were due to the contrail outbreaks.

news.psu.edu...

Seriously? People explain what contrails are and we say "Yes I know what they are.."
..and then others scream "but hey they're water vapor!"

..and then we of course agree because it is indeed partially true and again we say:

"Yes we know what contrails are.."

..you and your like minded friends try hang us by that crooked nail and scream "conspiracy theorist!" "ignorance!" after setting us up on that offtopic irrelevancy?

Well Riley, the reason why we're discussing is because your following statement a few posts back is so typical for chemtrail believers:

Every single time I have noticed the trails.. and not just fine lines but billowing clouds streaming from horizon to horizon. You do not have to be a pilot to see that it is not just normal water vapor.

That sums up a few misconceptions so well, and is a telltale sign that you DON'T know what a contrail is and what they can look like. Not that there is anything wrong with not knowing that.. most people don't. It's just that when you see contrails in the sky, you start suspecting it's some kind of conspiracy thing, and that that suspicion is based on thinking that contrails can't look like billowing clouds (they can), they can't go from horizon to horizon (they can) and that they're not just normal water vapor (it's ice crystals).

Yes water and water vapor is see through.. but you guys seem obsessed with this fact. I'm not being evasive I just do not think it is relevant as both contrails and chemtrails would have water content.

We all agree on that now go troll elsewhere.

It's not that we're obsessed, just pointing out a misunderstanding. No need to feel personally attacked over that.

And what is a chemtrail anyway?

a reply to: payt69

So based on "not just water vapor" remark you guys went on a witch hunt. It was clearly just a casual remark but you both ran with it. Even to the point of digging up that original casual remark to prove what I said.. even though it is not relevant to the topic...

So moving on then..




The basic difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is chemicals being added.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: riley

Contrails have been found to reduce daily temperature, so how are they causing heat waves? When comparing temperatures in areas that have a high contrail count they found a 5-6 degree lower temperature when compared to areas that didn't have contrails.

They found that contrails depress the difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures, typically decreasing the maximum temperature and raising the minimum temperature. In this respect, the contrail clouds mimic the effect of ordinary clouds.

The researchers report that the "diurnal temperature range was statistically significantly reduced at outbreak stations versus non-outbreak stations." In the South, this amounted to about a 6 degree Fahrenheit reduction in daily temperature range, while in the Midwest, there was about a 5 degree Fahrenheit reduction. Temperatures the days before and after the outbreaks did not show this effect, indicating that the lower temperatures were due to the contrail outbreaks.

news.psu.edu...

Correlation. Record temperatures have been consistent.. I had considered that they were trying to lower natural temperatures but it does seem to heat up after they've flown over.

Very interesting read I will research it further thanks for the info. I do have reservations with them doing those kinds of studies.. there may be unseen consequences with intentionally screwing with weather patterns. If they are just short term fixes then I don't see the point in them bothering.

originally posted by: riley
a reply to: payt69

So based on "not just water vapor" remark you guys went on a witch hunt. It was clearly just a casual remark but you both ran with it. Even to the point of digging up that original casual remark to prove what I said.. even though it is not relevant to the topic...

So moving on then..

The basic difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is chemicals being added.

OK so what then is the reason why you suspect chemicals are being added? Is there a way to tell 'chemtrails' apart from contrails?

a reply to: riley

Except they're not intentionally screwing with the weather, except in that aircraft are flying. These studies are done by sampling areas that have normal air traffic flying overhead and comparing the temperature on days with heavy contrails, compared to days with light or no contrails.

As previously pointed out contrails and persistent contrails have been seen since 1918. They're a normal result of air travel.

originally posted by: payt69

The basic difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is chemicals being added.

OK so what then is the reason why you suspect chemicals are being added? Is there a way to tell 'chemtrails' apart from contrails?

I suspect something being added as just the visuals of trails is not consistent with normal contrails I'm used to and they were doing it periodically.. and it would always be during a heat wave. It has also been extremely humid which does not make sense this time of year.

The chemtrail causing heat waves has since been countered despite what I have observed.. I will have to research it more. There does seem to be a connection but it's chicken or the egg at this point.

originally posted by: Zaphod58

As previously pointed out contrails and persistent contrails have been seen since 1918. They're a normal result of air travel.

And as previously pointed out.. these are not "normal" contrails that are merely the result of air travel.

a reply to: riley

I guess the photos of the sky over the Med during WWII are chemtrails too?

a reply to: riley

Yes, they are. They have changed because the engines creating them have changed. The engines in use today are as different from the engines used 30 years ago as those engines were from jet engines used in the 1940s. That means more contrails, and different looking contrails.

I suspect something being added as just the visuals of trails is not consistent with normal contrails I'm used to and they were doing it periodically.. and it would always be during a heat wave. It has also been extremely humid which does not make sense this time of year.

The chemtrail causing heat waves has since been countered despite what I have observed.. I will have to research it more. There does seem to be a connection but it's chicken or the egg at this point.

Yeah.. of course the conditions that bring on high humidity and a heatwave could also be the conditions that allow for persisting contrails.

The problem is that contrails live at altitudes where conditions usually differ to such an extent that they have nothing to do with conditions on the ground.

I'd really have to have a look at the weather data of where you live. Not to be offensive, but confirmation bias can be very deceptive. There may have been heatwaves without persisting contrails, but maybe you just made note of the ones where there were contrails.

As for the visuals of contrails.. well you noted earlier that you have pictures of them, so maybe you can post a few so we can see what you're talking about. That'd be really helpful.