Proof that the Bible was not written by mankind!

a reply to: jimmyriddler

Interesting, to be sure. Written by men? Well, the words were taken down by men, but inspired by God. God didn't place them on paper, or whatever they were using then, as He did with the Ten Commandments, but He did give the material to those who wrote it down. All that agreement, over centuries, by people who didn't communicate, isn't accidental.

As for the numbers, that is quite curious. I don't go for hidden codes, but signs of divine influence don't have to be codes.

originally posted by: GetHyped
OP you forgot to post the proof.

You mean youtube videos are not proof.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: jimmyriddler
Oh cool another one of those threads where people who don't understand what math is and how it works try to misuse math to prove the bible.

But the number seven man. Don't you get it?

originally posted by: jimmyriddler
Proof that the Bible was not written by mankind!

What's so cool, is that sometimes all one needs is a 'title' to know that anything that follows is absolute mindless, belief-addled CRAP, thus not wasting precious moments of valuable time!
Have a great night! *__-

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: jimmyriddler
Proof that the Bible was not written by mankind!

What's so cool, is that sometimes all one needs is a 'title' to know that anything that follows is absolute mindless, belief-addled CRAP, thus not wasting precious moments of valuable time!
Have a great night! *__-

A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose.

OP, thanks for the info. An interesting read regardless. Numerology will always be a difficult tool to prove/disprove anything. I appreciate your time and effort.

a reply to: jimmyriddler

The Hebrew Scriptures and Torah have similar numerical profiles. The old Testament was taken from Judaism which predated Christianity by 3000 years.

Spoiler Alert: There is no God. All religious texts were written by man.

originally posted by: Kalixi
a reply to: jimmyriddler

The Hebrew Scriptures and Torah have similar numerical profiles. The old Testament was taken from Judaism which predated Christianity by 3000 years.

Spoiler Alert: There is no God. All religious texts were written by man.

Your two statements don't follow. Was the last one a joke? I'm confused.

hey, prove God doesn't exist... and I'll listen.

originally posted by: Kalixi
a reply to: jimmyriddler

The Hebrew Scriptures and Torah have similar numerical profiles. The old Testament was taken from Judaism which predated Christianity by 3000 years.

Spoiler Alert: There is no God. All religious texts were written by man.

Could it be that the Hebrew Scriptures, Torah and New Testament have similar numerical profiles because of the hand of God being behind them? Definitely no human director spanned the 5,000 or more years that the Bible covers.

Spoiler alert: God exists and asks you, politely, to take a deep breath, calm down and think things through rationally for yourself.

The bible. Misunderstood since it was written. Misunderstood by disbelievers as fiction and misunderstood by believers for what it is actually about.

I am an atheist but I do think that a good few parts of the bible are desperately trying to tell us something that actually happened, whilst other parts seem like fiction, because we misunderstand.

I don't believe in an omnipotent god that has a human son, who then gets killed but is all nicey nicey about it and then comes back from the dead. It sounds farcical or like a story. We know it's not true.

Or is it partially true and we have misinterpreted the whole thing?

Yes we have. If you read the bible again, with the knowledge we have nowadays about DNA, space travel and science in general, the stories in the bible seem not so stupid any longer.
It seems they were written by clever people for stupid people and we kept the stupid version going, even though we have gained enough knowledge to revisit the bible with this knowledge.

Now to the numerology. Unless this was done on original, unaltered texts, you can forget about it.
If it was done on the original, unaltered texts and there is some hidden numerology...so what?

I was interested for a while in this, is there a hidden code [bible code lol]?

If there is, then it was put there by humans. By very clever humans. Just like the pyramids [measurements]. You can only 'get' the message if you have advanced science/technology. Earlier people would not see it.

I won't dismiss any code flippantly, because whilst I don't think that any abrahamic god had anything to do with it, clever humans have always had a way to leave encrypted messages. Why not in the bible?

The bible is a fascinating book, when read with the right [non religious] mindset. Some is probably real, some is fiction and other things thrown in just for good measures. Why not some numerology?

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Kalixi
a reply to: jimmyriddler

The Hebrew Scriptures and Torah have similar numerical profiles. The old Testament was taken from Judaism which predated Christianity by 3000 years.

Spoiler Alert: There is no God. All religious texts were written by man.

Could it be that the Hebrew Scriptures, Torah and New Testament have similar numerical profiles because of the hand of God being behind them? Definitely no human director spanned the 5,000 or more years that the Bible covers.

Spoiler alert: God exists and asks you, politely, to take a deep breath, calm down and think things through rationally for yourself.

Some problems with bible codes

The patterns, or features, which Panin discovered in Scripture involved chiefly the number seven. Had he placed an emphasis on almost any other number, it is doubtful if anyone would have paid any attention to his discovery. His emphasis on seven made his claims seem more believable because of the prominence of the number seven in the plain text of Scripture, especially in the book of Revelation. Whilst numerical patterns of seven are very numerous in the Scripture text, patterns based on lesser numbers occur even more often. In any list of words you care to examine, one in seven features might be expected to yield a pattern of seven (for example, the previous sentence has 21, or 3 x 7, words), whilst one in two features would be expected to yield a pattern of twos (for example, the previous sentence has 4, or 2 x 2, five-letter words).

Why are so many of us taken in by these ideas?
A mystique - in this case Greek or Hebrew letters, or the concept that God might be behind it and we should not question it.
A lack of tools to investigate it ourselves-in this case a lack of knowledge of Hebrew and Greek, and likely a weak background in probability theory.
A superficial reading-failure to see exactly what is being done because it is presented mysteriously or not fully explained.
A desire by those who believe the Bible is inspired for additional ammunition to convince unbelievers.
A lack of the necessary time to investigate in depth what we hear about, and a feeling that there are better ways to spend our time.

The article was written by a Christian.

As you so eloquently pointed out earlier, it's about faith, not facts. If what you described earlier works for you, and somehow bolsters your faith, then great, but there is no definitive evidence of any kind that can make the bible inerrant/infallible in any way. Quite the opposite.

a reply to: chr0naut

One of my friends after I became a believer gave me a little book .E. R. Finck, ed. The Seal of God in Creation and the Word by F. C. Payne. this is the PDF for those curious enough to read it . god-help.org... As I read through the first part the author focuses on nature weather bird or bush and man . He notes out number patterns which are easy to see and count for yourself . He calls these patterns the brush marks of God on His creation .

He then goes into the significance of what each of the 9 numbers might mean . I guess they all seem to represent or can represent certain things . 9 for instance is the final number so 9 could reasonably represent finality .This number gets its full representation in the word amen in both Greek and Hebrew words with a total value of 999

He then moves into bigger number combinations such as 37 which seem to represent the word of God having 2 numbers within it the 3 and the 7 ..He then goes into paragraph structure and divisions and multipals and throwing the mathematical book at it in order to see what is there .

The Bible has so many layers to it and so many mathematical marks to it that just studying that aspect leaves any reasonable person void of any other explanation as to how this could of happened . Even if the Book would have been written by one man at one time ,he would have needed the assistance of a super computer of today's type but even that might not cut it .

A none believer is someone who couldn't or wouldn't believe even if someone was to rise from the dead .We share a trait with a Narcissist and that is narcissism . We see it but they don't .One might think that they are few and far between but actually its not a rare thing .

Setting aside the numbers for a sec we can look at another layer in the Bible that has to do with what letters and names mean .Something most of us miss if we don't take the time and effort to dig a little deeper .Hard to imagine that we would find the Gospel message in the book of Genesis hidden away in a short geology but that is what we find . I suspect that digging into the numbers within that group would produce the same marks that seem to run throughout the rest of the book .

Another thing we stumble across or ask ourselves to look for is some of the strange things that are reported in some of the stories .Most events are local so looking for similar stories or other stories to confirm a link especially if it was a event that was global in scale and separated by cultures and even many many miles would be a dot of connection .
Joshaua's long day is such a story .I have yet to hear any scientific explanation for this one . The flood shows up as well but is pushed to the side as a local thing . But the long day is a very curious one .

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink .You can convince some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time .Some will be going into Eternity shaking their fists at God the whole way there .Its just one of the mysteries we as believers wonder about for now . peace

I find it fascinating that skeptics flock to these sorts of threads more than believers. My faith is unshakable due to the findings of Panin, but many on this thread would not believe if they saw someone come back from the dead...

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I don't think any of the sceptics on the thread are trying to shake your faith. Or anyone else's for that matter.
They're just demonstrating how and why the OP's video isn't proof of anything.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I agree . Chapter 13 in Earnest L Martins book Restoring the Original Bible is a fascinating read .Actually the whole book is but chapter 13 stands out in a few interesting ways dealing with numbers and the odds of some of these unrelated sources saying what they said about other things happening from the time of the cross of Christ's 30CE and the destruction of the Temple in 70CE ....

Symbolic Numbers and Prophecy It must be remembered that the use of numbers (and the symbols behind them) played an important part in the interpretation of prophecy in the 1st century. The number 666 is associated, in the Book of Revelation, with the reign of the world ruler who will have ten nations under his power in the last generation before the Kingdom of God appears on earth (Revelation 13:18). The Babylonian writer Berosus believed that world history itself was governed by cycles of 60, 600, and 3600 years (Fragment 4). And the Bible shows that the number 6 (Or its multiples) has symbolic teaching to it. When Nebuchadnezzar (the head of gold) set up a large idol in Babylon, its dimensions were 60 cubits high and 6 broad (Daniel 3:1). This, of itself, may appear insignificant, but if one figures the numerical value of the Hebrew letters that make up the description of that idol, it comes to 4662 (which is exactly 7 times 666). 9 Conversely, Daniel and his three friends who refused to bow down before that idol found their names adding up to 888:

The chapter is chalked full of nuggets but these two jumped out for me .

Supernatural Signs for the Temple’s Destruction There were four miraculous signs in particular that the apostles and the Jewish people witnessed in the 40 years before the destruction of the Temple; and the historical accuracy of these four signs is recorded in both the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. This shows that the knowledge of these four special signs was well recognized by the Jewish authorities in the period when the Talmuds were compiled. It is now time that all of us who desire to know the history of Palestine in the 1st century be made aware of those outstanding warning signs. Not only is this knowledge important for Christians, but it is equally significant for all the Jewish people today. What were those four signs? First, note what the Jerusalem Talmud has to say on this matter: “Forty years before the destruction of the Temple [starting in 30 C.E.] the western light went out, the crimson thread remained crimson, and the lot for the Lord always came up in the left hand. They would close the gates of the Temple by night and get up in the morning and find them wide open. Said Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai to the Temple, ‘O Temple, why do you frighten us? We know that you will end up destroyed. For it has been said ‘Open your doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour your cedars’ (Zechariah 11:1).” Sotah 6:3 23 Let us now look at what the Babylonian Talmud has to say (quoted from the Soncino Version). “Our rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot [‘For the Lord’] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; nor did the western most light shine; and the doors of the Hekel would open by themselves, until Yohanan ben Zakkai rebuked them, saying: Hekel, Hekel, why wilt thou be the alarmer thyself? I know about thee that thou wilt be destroyed, for Zechariah ben Ido has already prophesied concerning thee: Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars” Yoma 39b 24 The four signs are precisely the same in both Talmuds, and both state that the signs began in the year 30 C.E. (which is the very year in which Christ died on the tree of crucifixion). As explained in my book Secrets of Golgotha, I showed another important historical event which happened to the Jewish nation that occurred in that same year. Let me record it again in this book. “Forty years before the destruction of Jerusalem, the Sanhedrin was banished [from the Chamber of Hewn Stones in the Temple] and sat in the Trading Station [also in the Temple, but east of its former location].” Shabbath 15a 25 As I explained in my book Secrets of Golgotha, the move of the official Sanhedrin from the Chamber of Hewn Stones near the Altar of Burnt Offering in the Temple could be accounted for by the falling stonework that was over the entrance to the Hekel (the Holy Place) which supported the curtain that tore in two at the time of the crucifixion. Something must have happened to that vaulted structure called the Chamber of Hewn Stones that rendered it unfit for the Sanhedrin to enter from 30 C.E. onward. The earthquake at the crucifixion could well have caused the damage. No other explanation that is discernible in the historical records makes sense. This would mean that the last trial ever held in that prestigious and beautiful building on the Temple mount was that of Jesus.

www.askelm.com... There are two files on this book and one is a audio reading of the book .You can follow along with the text files .He has other books that are very interesting reads as well www.askelm.com...

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
I find it fascinating that skeptics flock to these sorts of threads more than believers. My faith is unshakable due to the findings of Panin, but many on this thread would not believe if they saw someone come back from the dead...

Then maybe you need to read the link I posted to an article written by a Christian about Panin. At least research what you're putting your faith in.

originally posted by: Pardon?
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I don't think any of the sceptics on the thread are trying to shake your faith. Or anyone else's for that matter.
They're just demonstrating how and why the OP's video isn't proof of anything.

No, probably they are not. However, I have noticed that one person's PROOF is another person's NONSENSE. The human mind is a slippery thing...

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
I find it fascinating that skeptics flock to these sorts of threads more than believers. My faith is unshakable due to the findings of Panin, but many on this thread would not believe if they saw someone come back from the dead...

Then maybe you need to read the link I posted to an article written by a Christian about Panin. At least research what you're putting your faith in.

Oh? You think I haven't done research?? Have you seen my personal library??? How little we really know of each other on this forum. I will look at your links, however.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Pardon?
a reply to: Lazarus Short

I don't think any of the sceptics on the thread are trying to shake your faith. Or anyone else's for that matter.
They're just demonstrating how and why the OP's video isn't proof of anything.

No, probably they are not. However, I have noticed that one person's PROOF is another person's NONSENSE. The human mind is a slippery thing...

Not really.
Real proof is irrefutable and not confined to one person. It stands up to scrutiny from the outside.

The OP's video isn't proof as it doesn't meet the above.

It just makes no sense to me why an omnipotent God didn't write the book himself especially since he knew man was corruptible since Eve ate the Apple or Cain murdering Able. Why didn't he manifest the bible himself and had it fall from the sky or something? Why did he have to use such an imperfect instrument in man to write it?

It is like this 'he loved us so much he gave us his only begotten son' business when an omnipotent being or whatever could just as easily gave Jesus a brother or sister any time he chooses.

It is madness...

Does any of the apocrypha fall into this numerology business as well?

a reply to: Terminal1

I guess if you look at it from a family orientation with fellowship in mind then you might get a glimpse into what God was thinking and planning .Plan A was to walk with man in a paradise setting where there was no death .Plan A is still in the works and has its fulfilment in Revelation ,some time in our future . A new heaven and new earth .

Prof as a statement can and should be understood where there may be convincing evidence to believe such a thing and to pursue to discover the subject in a fuller notion . I think that is what science does where they use complex math that suggest something and put in motions to discover it to a fuller understanding .

The science books get updated and added to on a continuing basis .Sometimes abandoning questions that were asked in one train of though because it may have been discovered in another vain something other . The books are not a settled yet in science and when you have a curiosity about a supernatural world then it too takes on a inquiring discovery where you find evidence that can help the student to ask questions he may never have thought of .

I say the supernatural in a sense of some unseen power or source that can explain the world we live in and that deals with mans question of who we are and why we are here .Science does a good job ant looking into the physical world but does little in the way of the supernatural and unseen realm .

So things that might suggest a supernatural influence on one of the most studied book is not unreasonable .