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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Ove38
The Baltic pipeline is a Russian project. Are you saying they are threatening war to secure the baltics for their new pipeline thats currently going nowhere?
Ukraine has a Russian pipeline running through it to the rest of Europe. Are you saying Russia invaded Ukraine to secure it for their pipeline? Did they occupy Crimea to make a pipeline to Turkey easier (which is going nowhere)?
Syria has no oil and is not needed for a pipeline, regardless of how much you try to portray it as a lynch-pin to a pipeline that doesnt exist.
Europe has decided to get gas through this pipeline
originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Ove38
Europe has decided to get gas through this pipeline
Russian oil going through Turkey shouldn't have any problems at all getting to Europe.
That should be interesting.
Although I would doubt it would happen...that would make for some great discussions.
originally posted by: Xcathdra
originally posted by: superman2012
What exactly are the NATO self defense plans he opposes?
I think Putin opposes NATO countries being able to defend themselves.
originally posted by: Xcathdra
originally posted by: s3cz0ne
While never formalized in law there was a commitment made to Gorbachev by Bush that NATO would not expand any further than the inclusion of the former East Germany. Since that time NATO an America have encirled Russia to the best of their ability. It seems it is the West, not Russia, that can't be trusted. As I've said before in other posts; a unipolar world is NOT a good thing. At least there was some geopolitical balance when the USSR was still around. That is also the reason that America fears a rising China, they threaten global hegemony.
Wrong - Source for info below
Thee agreement was NATO would not expand forces into E. Germany and Gorbachev talked about this when Putin lied about NATO expansion. This is what NATO agreed to -
The agreement on not deploying foreign troops on the territory of the former GDR was incorporated in Article 5 of the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany, which was signed on September 12, 1990 by the foreign ministers of the two Germanys, the United States, Soviet Union, Britain and France. Article 5 had three provisions:
1- Until Soviet forces had completed their withdrawal from the former GDR, only German territorial defense units not integrated into NATO would be deployed in that territory.
2- There would be no increase in the numbers of troops or equipment of U.S., British and French forces stationed in Berlin.
3- Once Soviet forces had withdrawn, German forces assigned to NATO could be deployed in the former GDR, but foreign forces and nuclear weapons systems would not be deployed there.
This is what Gorbachev stated when asked why NATO was allowed to expand -
The interviewer asked why Gorbachev did not “insist that the promises made to you [Gorbachev]—particularly U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s promise that NATO would not expand into the East—be legally encoded?” Gorbachev replied: “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”
Gorbachev continued that “The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.” To be sure, the former Soviet president criticized NATO enlargement and called it a violation of the spirit of the assurances given Moscow in 1990, but he made clear there was no promise regarding broader enlargement.
Several years after German reunification, in 1997, NATO said that in the “current and foreseeable security environment” there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of new NATO members. Up until the Russian military occupation of Crimea in March, there was virtually no stationing of any NATO combat forces on the territory of new members. Since March, NATO has increased the presence of its military forces in the Baltic region and Central Europe.
originally posted by: s3cz0ne
How would you feel if Canada and Mexico were in a Russian lead alliance and building up their respective militaries on American borders? BTW as it stands NATO has little chance of defending Eastern Europe in a conventional way were there to be a Russian incursion. Germany's military readiness, at least as reported by the press, is underwhelming at best. That's just one example. An example I use because Germany tends to historically hold one of the borders between Western and Eastern Europe.
Good god dont you guys ever look at a globe? The US and Russia share a border so we have Russian military forces present in the manner you describe. Secondly Russia has forces, as did the USSR, stationed in Cuba and Venezuela.
Highlighting NATO's military issues does not support your position. It shows there were no issues with Russia and that was reflected in the decrease of military budgets, withdraw of US forces from Europe and the downsizing of EU / NATO member militaries. All that changed when Russia invaded Ukraine and started threatening its neighbors.
Everything Putin is bitching about is a direct cause of Putin's own actions.
originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: superman2012
That is the answer. Putin is telling NATO they cannot beef up their self defense abilities as Russia, while threatening NATO with military action, says its a threat to NATO.
This when Russia announces 30k more troops for the border with the Baltics / Ukraine.
Putin knows he would lose in a war with NATO so all he has left are threats.