Transgender Misconceptions - She Changed My View!

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

How many people were there? You can bet somebody called the cops. Think again.

You're right. It doesn't add up.

It was an intentional stunt.

When a man recently entered a women's locker room at a Seattle pool, his intent was obviously to make the women and girls in the restroom upset and uncomfortable, and to make some kind of misguided point about the Human Rights Commission's rules regarding equal access to gender-segregated facilities.

His behavior is inexcusable and reprehensible. And it is absolutely not protected under the law. According to witnesses, the man never identified himself as transgender. He did not express a female gender identity through voice, dress, or mannerisms. He was a man, but in the wrong place. And even worse, when he was asked to leave, he refused to do so. www.thestranger.com... -the-law

a reply to: Annee

Of course.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

How many people were there? You can bet somebody called the cops. Think again.

You're right. It doesn't add up.

It was an intentional stunt.

Does it really matter whether it was an intentional stunt or an actual pervert trying to catch a view of undressed females and not get arrested? I'm sure it didn't matter to the women. Nor would it matter if it was an actual male who identified as a woman once the penis started dangling out and about.

When a man recently entered a women's locker room at a Seattle pool, his intent was obviously to make the women and girls in the restroom upset and uncomfortable, and to make some kind of misguided point about the Human Rights Commission's rules regarding equal access to gender-segregated facilities.

His behavior is inexcusable and reprehensible. And it is absolutely not protected under the law. According to witnesses, the man never identified himself as transgender. He did not express a female gender identity through voice, dress, or mannerisms. He was a man, but in the wrong place. And even worse, when he was asked to leave, he refused to do so. www.thestranger.com... -the-law

So profiling is acceptable now? A male who identifies as female must demonstrate a female voice, dress, and mannerisms? Who decides what is feminine enough? Who judges that? What are the exact standards so that a male who identitfies as female knows exactly how feminine they must behave to avoid being questioned by you?

I love how you people keep avoiding the most pressing question: Should females be obligated to undress and/or view the state of undress of anyone with a penis in a female shower or locker room?

a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

You fear a possibility.

Plato: "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."

Transgenders are real, they are a part of society, we are beyond the days of shoving people in closets.

Deal with it.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

You fear a possibility.

Plato: "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."

Transgenders are real, they are a part of society, we are beyond the days of shoving people in closets.

Deal with it.

Good job. Good job at blustering on atop a soapbox and saying nothing of meaning to counter my arguments.

And yes...we did notice you avoiding my question again.

originally posted by: SonsOfTheMeek

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

You fear a possibility.

Plato: "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."

Transgenders are real, they are a part of society, we are beyond the days of shoving people in closets.

Deal with it.

Good job. Good job at blustering on atop a soapbox and saying nothing of meaning to counter my arguments.

And yes...we did notice you avoiding my question again.

Society evolves. That's just how it is.

I've seen a lot of changes in my 70 years.

You want a perfect world? North Korea?

originally posted by: Annee

Society evolves. That's just how it is.

I've seen a lot of changes in my 70 years.

You want a perfect world? North Korea?

I guess you're just not going to answer that question I keep posing. People like you avoid the real nitty-gritty details and just continue to fantasize on your feel-good fairy tale agendas. You don't care who it affects as long as your pet "oppressed" get their special treatment.

originally posted by: SonsOfTheMeek

originally posted by: Annee

Society evolves. That's just how it is.

I've seen a lot of changes in my 70 years.

You want a perfect world? North Korea?

I guess you're just not going to answer that question I keep posing. People like you avoid the real nitty-gritty details and just continue to fantasize on your feel-good fairy tale agendas. You don't care who it affects as long as your pet "oppressed" get their special treatment.

People like me, don't have the patience anymore for people like you.

Nitty-gritty - - - you think I've lived some puritan type life? Trust me, fantasy is as far from my mind at least as far as Pluto is from earth.

Who it affects. It affects those who were born in the wrong body by no choice of their own.

Not the "special treatment" argument. Equal Treatment is not "special" its Equal.

Who is it that really wants to think of themselves as special?

originally posted by: Annee

People like me, don't have the patience anymore for people like you.

Nitty-gritty - - - you think I've lived some puritan type life? Trust me, fantasy is as far from my mind at least as far as Pluto is from earth.

Who it affects. It affects those who were born in the wrong body by no choice of their own.

Not the "special treatment" argument. Equal Treatment is not "special" its Equal.

Who is it that really wants to think of themselves as special?

Than why won't you just answer my simple question: Should women, in general, be obligated to be viewed and/or view, in a state of nudity, someone with a penis, in a public shower or locker room?

This is like the 3rd or 4th time I've asked it. Prove that you can tackle the harsh details of your objectives or you can engage in avoidance once again.

a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

or view, in a state of nudity, someone with a penis, in a public shower or locker room?

This is really my only problem with it. I mock SJWs and safe spaces/triggering a lot, but a women's restroom/shower should be a place where you don't have to see a dick.

I've made this argument before, and it was not well received. The number of women that have been raped/molested is staggering. Seeing an unexpected rando peen could actually cause LEGIT triggering for victims of rape/sexual abuse/assault. Like chucking some firecrackers into a room with war veteran suffering from PTSD. I'm not worried about transgender people being rapey.

Other than that, I don't care anymore. From what I've seen there just haven't been issues where men pretend to be transgender to be perverts. I don't give the slightest F if a woman that wants to be a man (or is, whatever) sees my wiener, or I see his vagina (I never thought I would say that, for multiple reasons).

Treat it like gun laws? So if you're caught being an asshole in a bathroom pretending to be transgender the sentence is heavier?

My (admit it's limited) understanding is that most transgender people REALLY don't want to make an issue out of it. So they are going to be discrete and not hang wang. We need freaking realistic bathrooms. We have the technology, it's doors and walls for f sake.

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

or view, in a state of nudity, someone with a penis, in a public shower or locker room?

This is really my only problem with it. I mock SJWs and safe spaces/triggering a lot, but a women's restroom/shower should be a place where you don't have to see a dick.

I've made this argument before, and it was not well received. The number of women that have been raped/molested is staggering. Seeing an unexpected rando peen could actually cause LEGIT triggering for victims of rape/sexual abuse/assault. Like chucking some firecrackers into a room with war veteran suffering from PTSD. I'm not worried about transgender people being rapey.

Other than that, I don't care anymore. From what I've seen there just haven't been issues where men pretend to be transgender to be perverts. I don't give the slightest F if a woman that wants to be a man (or is, whatever) sees my wiener, or I see his vagina (I never thought I would say that, for multiple reasons).

Treat it like gun laws? So if you're caught being an asshole in a bathroom pretending to be transgender the sentence is heavier?

My (admit it's limited) understanding is that most transgender people REALLY don't want to make an issue out of it. So they are going to be discrete and not hang wang. We need freaking realistic bathrooms. We have the technology, it's doors and walls for f sake.

Very good points. I'm glad that there's another rational person still engaging in this thread.

a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

Sure hung up on dicks, aren't you?

I'll offer my personal opinion in answer to your question: No.

Let's be reasonable, some lines have to be drawn and one would think common sense should prevail. 99% of transgender women are not going to flaunting body parts they are embarrassed by and ashamed of and go to great and often painful lengths to conceal.

You're going to have your 1%'ers who think this is okay or cross-dressers or others that have no sensitivity at all for the feelings of others. Do we make the 99% suffer just because some asshole might think this is okay and do this? I don't think so.

originally posted by: Freija
a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

Sure hung up on dicks, aren't you?

I'll offer my personal opinion in answer to your question: No.

Let's be reasonable, some lines have to be drawn and one would think common sense should prevail. 99% of transgender women are not going to flaunting body parts they are embarrassed by and ashamed of and go to great and often painful lengths to conceal.

You're going to have your 1%'ers who think this is okay or cross-dressers or others that have no sensitivity at all for the feelings of others. Do we make the 99% suffer just because some asshole might think this is okay and do this? I don't think so.

How are the 99% suffering if, as you say, they don't want to engage in such a thing anyway? How would a law banning them from women's shower and changing rooms hurt them? They should understand that it is for everyone's comfort. Rest room's should be ok. But nowhere where there is an expectation of nudity should people with opposite sex organs mingle.

originally posted by: Domo1
The number of women that have been raped

I've been raped, BTW. Just thought I'd mention that.

Oh, and my daughter was molested. But, I'm not in touch with reality.

a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

Very good points. I'm glad that there's another rational person still engaging in this thread.

I sort of think both sides are going a little overboard. For what it's worth, I've actually learned a lot from Freija and Annee. I used to irrationally despise transgender people and after some self examination and reading the stuff they post and links my opinions have changed quite a bit. They're both a huge pain in my ass. I don't want to think and read.

Saying women should be super permissive of anyone that CLAIMS to be transgender is ridiculous. Telling someone that actually IS transgender and takes real steps to present that way and be discrete they aren't allowed in the bathroom they want is also ridiculous. I really think reasonable people could find some common ground.

I don't want it legislated because that just adds all sorts of f-ery. I saw a good thread on /r/the_donald blasting bathroom laws. I'll try to find it. It went something like "It's been happening for a LONG time, no one cared, it's fine now and the only reason anyone cares is because assholes are politicizing the issue (on both sides) and based Trump doesn't give a crap so neither should we (I'm trying to play up the Trump infatuation cultist thing here, but I think he had a point). Then Caitlyn Jenner went and pissed in a Trump hotel and thanked him for his comments.

I don't think there are that many people out there that are so messed up in the head they would adopt transgenderism as a lifestyle choice for attention. I mean I've seen a few instances online, but I think it's incredibly rare. The majority seem to have legit differences in the brain hole.

I totally get where you're coming from, and think if you're not passable and have a penis the least you can do is be discrete about the penis. I'm uncomfortable around transgender people, but I think that's just because I don't know any. One thing I've noticed is that after you get to know someone of a certain race/creed/sexual orientation you humanize them in your mind. I used to hate gay people until I actually met a few. Now I'll bitch slap someone that harasses them in front of me.

originally posted by: Domo1
I used to irrationally despise transgender people and after some self examination and reading the stuff they post and links my opinions have changed quite a bit.

When I was young and Christian, I was drinking the kool-aid.

I had to learn. I was ignorant. Lack of knowledge. Lack of reality.

The "other side" may not think I get them, but I do. I've been there.

a reply to: Annee

I don't really know how to respond to that. I'm incredibly sorry. That must have been horrific.

That doesn't change my opinion. Some women who have been raped would have a very difficult time if they were presented with a penis in the ladies room. Some wouldn't.

I have a buddy that was force recon and fine after Afghanistan and Iraq, and there are a ton of people that have been lost to suicide.

I'm still going to love you no matter how much you disagree/hate me you old bat.

I think you're a badass.

a reply to: Domo1

We all have the potential to change our views over time. I once opposed having gays in the military or showering or changing alongside one. And more recently I changed my mind about transgenders in regular restrooms. Opinions can change with an open mind and time.

a reply to: Domo1

Oh, I know. Everyone is different. Everyone copes/handles things differently.

But, transgenders are real people. That's the thing. They deserve what they need.

As I've said, my mom was disabled. Before the disability act she was treated pretty much the same way as LGBT. People were so afraid they could catch polio, like you catch a cold, we/she was treated like she had leprosy. Like she asked to have polio so she could be "special".

a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

Opinions can change with an open mind and time.

Having an open mind and being willing to change is a pain in the ass. Worth it, but it's a pain in the ass.

I really get you. I don't understand transgender people at all and think it's super weird. I still think being gay is pretty weird. End of the day we're all pretty weird.

If a person feels better being a chick, more power to them if they have the balls to do it.