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Our concept of free will could all be an illusion, new research suggests.

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posted on May, 2 2016 @ 11:46 AM
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You do not have free will over your environment, conditions, etc., however you do have free will to make decisions within those parameters.

For example, you do not have free will when you are drawn a hand of cards, but you do have free will on how to play them.

Free will is your intent when you make each and every decision in your life, within the parameters you were given (born with).




posted on May, 2 2016 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: rickymouse
I can give you free will, but it will cost you a buck. Please deposit the buck into my ATS account. Oh, yeah, I don't have an account for money so I guess it is free.

We are conditioned from birth to fit into society, that shapes our consciousness and every decision we make. That means we do not and never will have free will. If our parents were chaotic in nature and conditioned us to not believe in society, then we are also conditioned and have no free will. This is all interpreted in our subconscious, our beliefs govern our will.

Boy, if I could only get a buck from everyone who believes me, I might be able to go get breakfast at McDs.


And of course if someone wanted to sabotage the right to make your own choices, they'd have to start by convincing people they don't even know what a choice is and build an entire dictatorship on that foundation.


Are you trying to say that we have a choice between electing an egotistical businessman and a compulsive liar for president and we should be glad we have free will to choose between the two?


I am not going to vote this upcoming election. See, that is our only other option other than voting for someone who hasn't a chance to win. So we have four choices in this election, we lose every way.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: cuckooold

One title..... Dice Man



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 12:22 PM
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originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: cuckooold

Do the science for yourself - look now to where your next thought will appear.
Is it possible to know what the next thought will be before it arises??

If it is found that thoughts appear without 'you' doing them then that is proof that that 'you' do not have free will.
Here is a nice video which will help you prove there is no free will - no need to believe or disbelieve a scientist.




The kicker? They are not your thoughts, not your words... just a perpetuation and a reconstruction using the same syntax of those already present. Cease thought and there will arise all sorts of phenomina, cease speech and there will arise all sorts of phenomina but the phenomina that arises also passes away unattached to its arising or its passing means freedom... no need for an inner voice to function no need to react to any voice or arising phenomena... it arises and it passes moment to moment on its own conditioned arisings making it duality itself, outside of such in quiecense with no inner dialoge nor external dialog to others unless required in the moment(out of politeness) in a monastery never required... one can see all of these arisings in and of themself as self and other supporting... as one simply sits in peace outside of all of that coming and going arising and passing in just pure awareness no so attached as those giving rise from those attachments that is the nature of suffering or samsara itself.

Peace is not present because so many other beings are so restless and prone to suffering due to those attachments that bring them no peace and constant suffering... but with love, compassion, and empathy it is ok, even those so mired as to ignorantly cause suffering in others with some intent... impermanence, their very nature of duality and causing themselves suffering is not lasting not permaent and subject to stress, pain, sickness, old age and death... so wishing or wanting to do ones enemies harm is pointless... as one so attached is like a puff of smoke after blowing out a candle, the sent lingers but becomes lost over time. Compassion says teach them, so they wont harm, empathy knows that that teaching will be used to advantages or greed hate and delusion to perpetuate ignorance... so it becomes a catch 22 because empathy also knows many will use it to cease greed hate and end their delusional ignorance.

I wish all a nice day...



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: rickymouse

Vote libertarian.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Analysis paralysis



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Not if that "choice" of not being part of God's plan is actually part of God's plan



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 04:35 PM
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Some studies have shown that the precognition exist. The body will start reacting in many situation before the stimuli has even come into existence/view.
An no these are not hipster/hippie/bs studies. One is out of Northwestern and another out of Cornell.
Is it precognition or determinism?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:11 PM
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a reply to: Discotech

Why would such a being and all the attributes tributted to such a being need a plan? Why would it need workers of various sorts as slaves or followers to carry out anything...

Its just the whole must create the I am what I am to be enigmatic and leave people confused and guessing... yet still holding onto a I think therefore I am ego... and thats the key to needing plans, workers, followers, and even slaves... an ego, a self a place from which to judge or control others while kept in the dark as to whom or what they are serving or doing in whatevers name.

Just saying god is ambiguious... you know how Solomon said the key to controlling demons or whatever was to know their name? Even in exorcisms knowing the name is supposed to give control or command over it... god isnt a name its a concept or idea, YHVH isnt a name its a concept or idea... and if there manevleant selfish energies? Then of course, theyd want to stay as ambigious as possible and not be named so as to not be commanded or known and stay irresponsible in that abuse of energy. Its a cowards way its a low way and such a coward does not need to be worshipped admired or invoked... as it doesnt want to be commanded yet it wants to befuddle confuse and command?

Wholly unworthy and best to cast such ignrant garbage from ones sight from ones mouth and out of ones consciousness and choose one that is known by word name and deed in a panthenon than something so nameless and spinless hungry for power and control... rebuke such is my advice in those that choose a path of duality let your choice be known.

My choice is obviously, in respect and reverence to all awakened buddhas and beings past and present and those arising in the future as a goal of manifestation into one body of awakening... beyond such duality in equanitmity and harmony.

Some random energy undefined escaping definition trying to collect enmass the ignorant not allowing itself identification? But acts through others that invoke it for its own wants needs and purpose? Just an ignoble paracite feeding off of the ignorant like a leech.

The awakened have no need of belief in gods or devils, as they are no different than any other being mired in a duality of extremes other than some attributes such as supramundane powers they attach too or long life they are blessed with from followers... not quite as asleep as regular sentient beings but no where near awake as a buddha that has renounced such attachments caused by desire, greed or hate to keep the ignorant in delusion.

My advice is know whom you are invoking for what purpose and why, calling or invoking a random energy under a blanket term is not advisable unless one enjoys plague and suffering, Im aware some say it with their mouth and project who in their minds... that is unacceptable if one desires a higher realm of birth, live like an animal in a human form? Thats exactly the form one will incarnate into an animal preta or ghost... doesnt matter if one is a god titan deva asura or human. That intent is the polarity positive or negative... balance? The middle? All encompassing wisdom? Knows them all in balance and arises or decends as a benefit to all in equanimity beyond bias born from empathy.

I urge not being so attached to such energies, invoking them, using them for crutches as a cause to attack another in hate or use belief of them for greed. It does not lead to any more peace or understanding beyond ignorance and delusion to wake up to reality as it is... just an oasis or port of harbor between lives but by all means know whom it is oneself and others are invoking.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:56 PM
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originally posted by: Restricted
Anyone who's ever been psychotic knows there is no such thing as free will.

Those who believe there is free will are still asleep.


...then those who think(?) they don't have free will are psychotic...

Å99



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 07:45 PM
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originally posted by: akushla99
...then those who think(?) they don't have free will are psychotic...
Å99


Can you name a single decision you have made that was not influenced in some way by another person or your own past experience?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: akushla99
...then those who think(?) they don't have free will are psychotic...
Å99


Can you name a single decision you have made that was not influenced in some way by another person or your own past experience?


...according to the 'research'...'I' 'decide' nothing...the 'decision' to follow the path to get to the point of publishing an idiotic conclusion, based on 3-second bursts of 'thoughts' you do not make...is an idiocy beyond comprehension...why anyone would swallow this guff is a mystery greater than the mystery of disenfranchising your own research by deligitimising the lifetime you took to publish the so-called results - as I have said already on this subject - I have no rational reason to believe anyone that in the one breath, tells me the research says what it says, while at the same time averring what it says...their opinion means nothing in that light...

Å99



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 08:30 PM
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All you have to do is pay attention to your thoughts and you should realize they're not from your imagination. We're robots and something is giving of thoughts so we feel in control of ourselves.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 08:39 PM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

I don't disagree entirely with your deterministic view point,but there is one thing within the article you linked that should be discussed.

Determinism removes personal responsibility of the actions of an individual, there are several reasons why that may seem scary to some folks who believe in free will. I could definitely see prosecutable criminals being let off on the basis that the heinous actions committed were due to his/or her internal biological forces(e.g increased adrenaline or other hormones) and that inevitably (s)he was going to commit this crime.

I'm for predictable models of human behavior but for me I'd opt for more soft determinism at the least.
There are some things we consciously have control over,and that is whether or not we allow the environment or internal forces to dictate our existence. The tyranny of biology can be a real bitch though...



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: NateTheAnimator

I agree that the "removal of personal responsibility" is a major drawback of the deterministic view point. You raise some very valid points and I think your position on the topic is a very reasonable one.

Currently, the only way I can attempt to resolve this drawback is to suggest the following: determinism doesn't remove personal responsibility, it only helps us better understand the role we were born to play in this existence. A serial killer might not have "willed" to kill so many people, but for the safety of others they need to be removed from the general population.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 09:23 PM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

Could you elaborate on how it exactly doesn't reduce individual responsibility?
Just suggesting it doesn't,really doesn't change much.
A possible solution would be to make good use of Operant Conditioning,Criminals are given harsher penalties for their crimes and those who contribute to society are greatly rewarded for the contributions regardless of how mundane or minor...This way the actions of any individual based upon determinism still have some merit and these people are directed towards a desired outcome.

There's is one thing that I don't think anyone can really dispute about the deterministic approach and that is we are not in fact fully autonomous,a lot of our choices are influenced by external and internal forces. We do a lot of reacting to circumstances than making cold,hard decisions.
edit on 5pm31America/Chicago3109America/Chicagopm533 by NateTheAnimator because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 09:56 PM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost
There is no role one was born to play, a child does not choose to whom it is born or where... although there is a great statistical probability of how the childs life will play out giving understanding to the adversities and how the child adapts or copes to them based on that demographic... and that in an of itself is enough to say how unfair bias in life is that upholds these stereotypes and false programming ditchotomy in a fatalistic damned no matter what programming, unless some freak occurance or epiphany of some sort spins them wholly out of te expected mold.

That doesnt mean there is no free will or individuality... it just means there is social engineering systems with a preference of bias to keep things predictable economies stable the cog and status quo spinning without much change or variation... in a sudo bubble and when someting major pops in that bubble any contengent plans on such a thing are then quickly shoved into play... like 9/11 leading to mass surveilence and the patriot act 1000s of pages but boom ready at the blink of an eye.

šo yeah theres plans and social engineering in the works and that whole business as usual even if the natives are restless, our bubbles are safe from popping leading to a rather smug tone... just look at those running for president... one leaked tons of top secret material among other things la la la gaining millions of dollars every day, one not even born in the US, one too honest for the job, one saying anything and everything just for attention even if it incites riots... worst of all our vote doesnt even count the way it is set up, and the way that is set up has been working towards were it doesnt even count down to the local level... oh happy day.

But eh greedy control freaks arent anything new... how paranoid they are knowing we the people hold the actual power is probably the most impowering thing we as people can enjoy and be seen as free will.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: NateTheAnimator

It's actually a really complicated topic, far more than most people give it credit for. Mainly for the reason that the terms we use are very loosely defined, such as "personal responsibility". When you state things like this, people accuse you of trying to overcomplicate things when the intention is actually to clarify, not overcomplicate.

Free Will. Does that mean the ability to act in any way that one decides? Can I will a briefcase with $1m to appear before me? Can I will to fly into the sky unaided by machinery? Can I will for that girl I love to feel the same way? I would say no to all those things. Therefore, unrestricted Free Will does not exist.

Do we maintain relative Free Will, meaning Free Will within the confines of the laws of existence around us? For example, can I will to drink pepsi instead of coke, keeping in mind I have a can of each in my house? Yes, I can make the decision to drink the pepsi can instead of coke. So in this case, we seemingly do have a certain degree of free will.

Now to put that into context. That you are choosing to drink either drink already indicates that it is not off your own volition. Why did you choose a soft drink and not water? Why a choice between those two brands in particular? How did you arrive at the situation where you were presented with this choice. Was it all due to random chance alone? I doubt it.

Personal Responsibility. The word "responsibility" is the contentious one, the word "personal" basically just means in relation to the individual. What is responsibility exactly? If I am driving and a hail storm erupts, causing me to crash my car into somebody's fence and destroying it, am I responsible? If I forget to lock my car at the station and somebody steals it, am I somewhat responsible? Had I locked the car, would it have been stolen?

While it might seem so, I am not a hard-line determinist and still believe we might maintain a degree of Free Will, I just believe it is highly unlikely. To be honest, I cannot, at present, refute your valid assertion that determinism cannot reconcile personal responsibility and have to leave it as one of the ever-present intellectual conflicts in my mind. Nevertheless, I will strive to take responsibility for my actions and how I treat others, despite that my mind believes these things are out of my control.


edit on 2/5/2016 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

If you believe that this existence is the only form of existence, then what you say makes sense. I personally believe there may be more to the overall workings of the universe than this physical existence. Do I have proof? No. But I have no more proof that there is a non-physical existence than you do that Free Will exists. We are shaped by our past experiences, some of which cannot be accurately relayed to others.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 11:37 PM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

I apologize for not being clear in my previous posts in regards to terminology...
What I mean by free will, is essentially making decisions with out the outcome being entirely bound to the influences of external or internal forces.

Personal responsibility,I meant is how we as individuals accept our faults or successes with out attributing it towards an external force. (e.g scape goats and the like)




While it might seem so, I am not a hard-line determinist and still believe we might maintain a degree of Free Will, I just believe it is highly unlikely. To be honest, I cannot, at present, refute your valid assertion that determinism cannot reconcile personal responsibility and have to leave it as one of the ever-present intellectual conflicts in my mind. Nevertheless, I will strive to take responsibility for my actions and how I treat others, despite that my mind believes these things are out of my control.


Oh ok,it's cool man. I also wasn't being argumentative,just hoping to discuss a beloved topic of mine that being psychology...If you ever do find a way to have determinism reconcile individual responsibility let me know,I'm sure it would be interesting to discuss in the future.



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