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Our concept of free will could all be an illusion, new research suggests.

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posted on May, 2 2016 @ 02:31 AM
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No, this is not a misplaced thread from Philosophy and Metaphysics, and nothing to do with religion, but a bona fide scientific study performed by neuroscientists.

www.sciencealert.com...


New research suggests that our idea of 'conscience choice' might not actually exist on the short-scale, and hints that free will is actually nothing more than a cruel, cruel trick our brains play on us. In other words, we're not actually making decisions, we're just telling ourselves we did.

The new study was performed by neuroscientists from Yale University, and only applies to choices made over short periods of time (we're talking a few seconds here). But they found evidence that people aren't actually making split-second decisions before an action happens, even though they think they are.


The article suggests that they don't know how this happens, but it provides fascinating food for thought that may change the way we view the world.


"Perhaps in the very moments that we experience a choice, our minds are rewriting history, fooling us into thinking that this choice - that was actually completed after its consequences were subconsciously perceived - was a choice that we had made all along," writes one of the researchers, Adam Bear, over at Scientific American.




The big-picture question is why our brains would have evolved to do this. There's a chance that it doesn't actually happen in the real world, and our brains just aren't fast enough to process decisions without glitching in the space of time given in this experiment. Or perhaps, Bear speculates, our brains tricking us into thinking we have free will might actually be beneficial - giving us the perception of control over our lives, and encouraging us to punish people for wrongdoing.


So, if free will is an illusion, does this affect the outcomes that occur as a result of our choices. It is an interesting conundrum, that perhaps can change the way we view reality down to a fundamental level.I recommend reading the article linked, it's interesting to look at this discussion from a scientific rather than philosophical perspective.
edit on 2-5-2016 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 2 2016 @ 02:39 AM
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If you believe you are free, then you are free.

P



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 02:44 AM
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a reply to: cuckooold

i know freewill exists, untill you get married...........

in all seriousness i dont think a human experiment could measure such a thing, also i know for a fact freewill exsists,

I chose not to pull out and now i have two kids.........just kidding....not really


i do know for a fact i have made decisions before how can that be refuted?

but either way cool find

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edit on 2-5-2016 by DOCHOLIDAZE1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:00 AM
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When I was about 15 I ran through the Ape caves with a small flash light like a bat out of hell for a long ways and actively chose not to fall and destroy my noggin.
I then nearly froze to death/drowned a few hours later when I jumped into a freezing cold river off a rope swing.
Seems pretty free to me. We are free to do anything exciting or stupid in life until the lights go out.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:04 AM
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a reply to: cuckooold

this has been known for a very long time by those who do meditation aimed at finding who they really are. This may sound like some bad joke - "What? you do not know who you really are?" But those take the trouble of delving within will eventually discover the truth - that the body-mind complex is not who they really are. And they will also discover that the so-called free will, decisions and happenings to each body-mind complex have all been pre-designed, that each role had been prescripted into the cosmic drama, long before they even appeared on planet earth. This drama goes on forever, and when one realizes, or wakes up from, the illusion, one becomes free! Most people are simply not aware of this illusion (recall The Matrix), and so they continue to become trapped and reified in that identification life after life. This is the rationale for the tenet "the kingdom is within you", and it basically exemplifies the self-realization of Gautama Buddha. The time line is 500-600 BCE, well before the "bona fide scientific study performed by neuroscientists."



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edit on Mayam16 11 20 by Rextiberius because: amendments

edit on Mayam16 11 20 by Rextiberius because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:07 AM
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I don't think you need neuro-science to answer this question.

If you observe your own decisions, you can observe that all of your decisions were due to conditions -that is, it was due to such and such reason(s). It is observable.

Or maybe there can be random factors that effected a decison..

Whether a decision was decided by random factors or whether it was conditioned, that is not free will is it?

What other things can exit that effect a decision?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:11 AM
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If you make a plan, to work your way through college, to pay for a university degree to study the science, to research, write and publish conclusions that are the result of long-term planning of a life able to choose to bring this into the public domain to question the sphere of free will - the intimation is yawn-worthy...

Å99



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 03:56 AM
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I learned this a while back. The responses come before the brain can process. Because the responses are wired. If it comes to ethical decisions then you are looking for "second order" deduction making. Such as saying I want to be the guy who opens doors for all women. Then your instinct is to open the door when you see a woman passing the threshold.

Honestly I lean to stoicism. Our free will lies in our attitude about circumstances. The fun is that we live in a multiverse with infinite possible worlds. So our preordained decisions could be anything depending where you are. Just get the right attitude about it.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 04:10 AM
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when everyone is programmed with conditioning, concepts, and beliefs with communication, and education while self validating their own existence by arguing solid known existence its really going to seem like theres no free will... everything is or was already predefined when we got here, unless we create something or get ideas about something, then that just falls under blanket subjects like art, science, religion, we help a lot of it stop being what it is... but doing that doesnt really define or or change it from macrocosim we can call that biggest glowing orb in the sky and call it Sun doesnt really make it what it is or change it even when someone points it out and says sun, sol, star, ball of hot hydrogen or even orangatang... it has a form and it has a function that goes on without humanity calling it anything it doesnt need us to be there or do what it does, it doesnt need our labels or investgations to do what it does...

But we need it for life as we know it... but life as we know it has come from a bunch of "special mostly hairless monkeys" that have learned to make more and more complicated hoots at each other past the point of insanity... when we decided some belief is a god when it is all make believe to effing being with, that isnt solid and tangible on contact or experienced... you can stare at some object with a name all day long... but that label doesnt make it what it is the word doesnt make it what it is, several foreign languages doesnt say what it is but they do in their own way... but its there it has a function yet no reason to think about it, no reason to mentally label it. It exists without a single thought from you or anyone else to support it...

Of course that doesnt mean it doesnt have some possible use to make life easier, but the trade off when do we say hey enough is enough sit down and realize what Im pointing to with so many words but actually not saying a single damned thing?

Thats where free will lay, form and formlessness... formlessness in form... because emptiness in form is the same as form in emptiness without a label. Upon direct realization of this and not dooped by all this inane monkey chatter we do and over complicate in an attempt to ease life, but are more a detriment to all life on the planet as time goes on... and only one historical figure over 5000 years ago said stop and wake up.

stop moving the body, stop moving the speech, and stop moving the mind... with intent. Many are always moving the body with mindless intention, obviously always talking about empty subjects of contact with intention, and then with great determination, say stopping all of that nonsense clouding the consciousness with programming and nonsense is impossible... due to attachment and clinging and grasping to it like that changes anything, or defines anything...

I repeat the same advice in respect to benefit all... stop



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 04:17 AM
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Many have long understood that freewill is an illusion, regardless of this and several other experiments which are intended to demonstrate that fact. When we "make a decision," our choice is ultimately predictable. Instinct, conditioning and circumstances make the choice, not you. You didn't wake up today, dawn a pink tutu and walk around town proclaiming that you're a dodo bird to all you met. You didn't choose not to do this; it's just not in your nature. At any moment in time, a seemingly infinite set of possibility confront you. You could do anything, but you'll ultimately only do one thing. You only have one future, and no matter what you think, you're going to do what you're going to do, and you're not going to do what you're not going to do.

It's been said that if one knew the position and movement of every particle in the universe at the time of its formation, a sufficiently intelligent being could have predicted the precise situation we find ourselves in today. The fact of the matter is that all things are predictable, given sufficient information. If that's the case, then your future is predetermined, and all appearance of choice is illusory. I assure you that the Schrodinger's Cat experiment is absolute nonsense. The cat isn't both alive and dead simply because you don't know its state. It only appears that way to you because you lack knowledge of events within the box which the cat occupies. Just because I don't know what you'll be doing twelve hours from now doesn't mean that you'll be doing both everything and nothing simultaneously. You'll be doing a specific thing, predetermined by your instinct, conditioning and circumstances. You'll be twelve hours further along a path with many crossroads, but your instinct, conditioning and circumstances will govern any relevant decision making, making each turn obstructed, leaving you to continue straight along the same single path from birth until death without variance, because you were always going to follow that particular path. You were always going to do what you were going to do.
edit on 2-5-2016 by Navarro because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 04:23 AM
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a reply to: Navarro

Sorry if I'm drifting but you are drifting into another Pandora's box of time. Honestly you are only ever in the present so what is this notion of future. Things that haven't yet happened? Wanna give me odds?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 04:59 AM
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Anyone who's ever been psychotic knows there is no such thing as free will.

Those who believe there is free will are still asleep.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: Rextiberius

Vey interesting reply. I agree that our lives are lived in accordance with the cosmos which so fascinated and occupied the thoughts of ancient peoples. With the Kingdom within us, one could almost say we are inside-out except we don't realise it. With our environment and the pressures it exerts on us, most don''t have time to spend on these thoughts and with our physical and mental needs, it could be argued we may not necessarily have been given the choice to know this quite deliberately because we weren't designed to.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:11 AM
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...from the article - I wouldn't call "suggests", "might not", "perhaps", and terms like this particularly devoid of doubt...

If the 'conclusion' is derived from decisions that researchers were always going to make - by their own subtextual admission - they made no conclusion of their own volition...clearly...and could hardly mount an argument that ever could be taken seriously, since, those arguments would be based on their conditioned responses to research, responses and conclusions they were always going to give...

In effect, the 'conclusions' have created a conundrum of infinite loop variety for researchers...where they cannot under their own circumstances make the kind of 'conclusion' they are making...without admitting their own predestined responses...

Å99



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:14 AM
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Saying something is true, like free will exists, because you think so isn't proof. People have fooled many times.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:23 AM
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originally posted by: roadgravel
Saying something is true, like free will exists, because you think so isn't proof. People have fooled many times.


...but spending the money on an internet plan in advance, to turn a computer on, to log into ATS, to select a thread, to formulate a response - is proof of what?

Å99



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:26 AM
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a reply to: cuckooold

Do the science for yourself - look now to where your next thought will appear.
Is it possible to know what the next thought will be before it arises??

If it is found that thoughts appear without 'you' doing them then that is proof that that 'you' do not have free will.
Here is a nice video which will help you prove there is no free will - no need to believe or disbelieve a scientist.



edit on 2-5-2016 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:34 AM
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originally posted by: cuckooold
So, if free will is an illusion, does this affect the outcomes that occur as a result of our choices.

There is always free will where a person who has just lost their job could either accept it as a challenge or get their plane and fly it into a government building in the form of revenge.

If i remember correctly, this actually happened a few years ...

The 2010 Austin suicide attack occurred on February 18, 2010, when Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single-engine Piper Dakota light aircraft into Building I of the Echelon office complex in Austin, Texas, United States


Yahushua has given everyone a perfect path that everyone that if followed will lead back to His everlasting love.

Its a narrow uphill path, with many temptations (fatal detours, off cliff, dead-ends) on the way.

Its more common-sense. People need to ask themselves, 'where do they want their spirits to end up for eternity ?'
Do they want to exist with trust-worthy spirits for eternity or be surrounded by spirits seeking revenge on them for eternity.

Everyone has a choice.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: roadgravel
Saying something is true, like free will exists, because you think so isn't proof. People have fooled many times.


...but spending the money on an internet plan in advance, to turn a computer on, to log into ATS, to select a thread, to formulate a response - is proof of what?

Å99


Proof of posting here.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:07 AM
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Suuuuure. I smell a rat!



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