The Disclosure Problem {Whitley Strieber's Journal}

a reply to: BO XIAN

This is way out on the fringe but I will lay it out there. I remember reading a hypothesis once on this phenomenon, that these entities were indeed transdimensional, the "ultraterrestrials" that John Keel wrote about. They make forays into our reality, but cannot exist in it for long. As some quantum physics experiments show, the act of observation literally affects the nature of reality. In other words, the more "real" these beings become to the general public, the more of a beachhead they establish in our reality. Keeping belief in them in the domain of the "tin foil hat crowd" may in fact be a way of keeping them from gaining more of a foothold in our world. Maybe this is the real reason for the coverup? I don't know but it was an interesting theory.

originally posted by: jeep3r
a reply to: BO XIAN

12 flags and no reply? Let's see if can get this discussion going...

If they have the capability to remain largely undetected and unidentified then it would seem as if they could also control whatever we know about them (incl. the rate at which disclosure would take place).

But then again: would they be interested in disclosing anything at all? Assuming they are a far advanced technological civilization, they might have gone through that phase of contact before and realized that it didn't turn out well (similar to us colonizing or invading other countries).

Perhaps they came to the conclusion that there isn't so much to gain, but a lot to lose when interfering with other civilizations (especially inferior ones). So maybe the galactic zoo hypothesis would hold true after all...

Oh no disclosure is coming remember? We just have to wait for it to come from Tom's mouth ( the dude from blink 182) before any one can take anything serious.

a reply to: openminded2011

I've been reading up on quantum physics recently and the aspect of particle behavior changing when observed is just mind bending. Anyway, the theory you shared is the most interesting that I've heard in a long time. Thanks.

a reply to: JimOberg

Two of us here have raised serious questions about his allegations concerning the astronaut Gordon Cooper stories. Do you want to examine this specific example or have you closed your mind to any possibility your judgment of Streiber's reliability might need modification?

I will examine the specific example.
I have listened to Strieber for years and i have not caught the man contradicting himself which in my view is a good indication of integrity although his interpretations as to what is actually happening as regards to the abduction/paranormal phenomena change due to the complications of having zero tangible evidence to pinpoint a case as mine also change as the whole thing is a mystery with huge attempts at guess work making up most of the framework.
Thanks for pointing out the Gordon Cooper stories i will look them up.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Interesting about Whitley's The Key. That only reinforces my conviction that it's a grand manipulation along with thousands of others. Did he post samples of the changes?

It was well documented at the time and i had both books original and the latest reprint of which i still have the original version to see the differences myself.

If anyone has read the book 'Hidden truth Forbidden knowledge' by Dr Steven Greer, narrating about his experiences and how he came to be in the position he is now, it would be glaringly clear that without the 'spiritual context' of it, i.e the energies and manifestation into solid form , the inter connectedness of everything with thought and feelings, the very changes in state of mind and being, is what 'allows' an experience. Many experiences in sleep occur due to suspension of conscicous mind, thereby lesser resistance. Unfortunately in the solid materialistic framework it is difficult to make room for these experiences, because not even our subjective states of being factor into it. I found many co-relating factors expressed in Greer's work and Ingo Swann's work. Both have explained these subtle understanding of beingness in their own ways. Both have documented their experiences and attempted to make sense of it and bridge it with our collective understanding .

Bernado Kastrup's books do a great job too in challenging our metaphysical assumption that 'materialistic'framework is the only valid explanation of reality. I think without this context, approaching subject of UFO and inter-dimensional beings is short sighted. The context is necessary and so is the acknowledgement of subtle perceptions. Same things are reported by people on '___' etc. Some in their sensory tank deprivation experiences, or meditative experiences report having very 'real' encounters with beings from other dimensions. Why is it that those states permit visibility and direct experience of this phenomena. Its because 5-sense system of perception is limited, and we all do use, however unconsciously other means of perception. Without a deep study of these subjects people are never truly going to grasp the understanding of those beings, even if we had a disclosure. We would be acting out our tribal instincts, our fear based xenophobic strategies for defense.

The ones that 'saw' a ufo, can easily be confused. As we can make people doubt their sensory perceptions. SO even if one after another the reports come in, that scope of doubt remains very real which breeds more cynicism.

The means to 'independently' verify these experiences, is to experience it by oneself. CE5 protocols are worth trying.

Lately I have been doing a lot of astral work and astral energy body
stimulation not just for my work in the Crowley A.:A.:. but also as a supplement
towards helping my magick and also astral projection proper.

I feel much more sensitive to the astral realm now as a result, and
was thinking of Kenneth Grant's (and Crowley's) work in regards to LAM and
also non human entities. More and more my gut is telling me that a
majority of nonhuman encounters we have as a race are actually with
astral beings rather than fully physical beings. Do you all have any input
or opinion on this? Perhaps they are naturally astral beings that
are only able to physically manifest with great difficulty and on a
temporary basis.

I have seen UFOs three times and also had a kind of nonhuman encounter but my experience and studies point to a largely nonmaterial basis for this phenomenon.

Let's resume the 'disclosure problem':

- Aliens won't go public, because they're abducting humans beings against their will and subject them to a genetic program. They need the secrecy, in fact they even erase victims' memories so the program won't get compromised. They have been doing this for decades and won't change their minds, because doing otherwise could cause massive panic, it hits the press, it then hits the power structure (government) and will eventually force their hands into 'protecting' citizens.

- Powerful governments, like the US, UK, must obviously be aware of what's going on. They're either receiving 'benefits' from the aliens, or they're 'fighting' them in secret, or just observing, or a combination of the any of those. Either way, going public is bad business, basically because it compromises the status quo.

The only way you're going to get any real disclosure, is if the aliens make a mistake and undeniable tissue/material is recovered somehow by civilians, or either some sort of major leak comes from a government source, making the situation impossible to be denied.

a reply to: JackHill

Have you made room for the human 'ARV' (Alien reproduction vehicles) used to abduct humans and perpetuate this anti-alien narrative?? So many people have no conscious recollection of 'alien' encounters , even if they were pleasant encounters, simply because the conscious mind framework, the filters of information do not have the room to incorporate those astral level of info.
Also Hollywood has been promoting this fear-based anti-alien narrative, so I doubt the government is 'operating under secrecy to maintain a status quo'. If anything these are clues to the propaganda machine of how to manipulate the bent of thinking in people who are largely unaware of the alien 'issue' towards fear and paranoia. That ensures complicit consent to weaponise space, should the situation come. Because people respond to fear based situations a lot more urgently than ones that might promote long-term benefit for all.
Werner Von Braun has already outlined the timetable for 'hoax alien invasion' , which seems to be nearing. Promoting fear and paranoia is in the best interest of any 'group', seeking control. Even the Betty and Barney Hill 'abduction' case was actually mysteriously pleasant . Some have theorised that the memory black out is simply to prevent 'trauma' of fear that most people experience when they experience something they cannot explain, or even to simply keep their lives as normal as possible. Many people under hypnosis will elbaorate on experiences they have no recollection of in their conscious waking state.


I think your comment, while reflects your own opinion of the matter, largely ignores all these facets of the issue. I havent had the chance to read your other comments so maybe I am reading this superficially, but have you looked into the issues listed above? The human version of 'abduction' scenarios planted to make people more and more afraid of the whole scene of Alien contact and disclosure.

a reply to: chris_stibrany

The problem with our current terminology is that when we delineate 'astral' and physical , (which I have also done in my comment) we are still creating a fractured picture. We have to acknowledge that its all inter-connected, and inter-related. So these encounters are happening on various levels of our psyche. We are consciously aware of only about 5% of the info available to us, rest of it is usually 'subconsciously processed. We are usually not even aware of a lot of things in our immediate environment until we 'focus consciously'. So its not a far stretch that other levels of our mind are not accessible to us in our conscious grid of awareness.
When we mediate deeply, disconnecting temproarily from the loop of reactionary interactive awareness with our environment, there is a space created in the mind where we can infact 'see deeply' the root of our mind activity. The very fact that people report similar info while meditating, taking psychedelics, having near death experiences etc points to a common theme.
All 'beings' are basically aggregate of ideas and choices, shaped by experiences. Same substance 'consciousness' but different orientations. I think the key to understanding these seemingly unrelated ideas and subjects is to study consciousness , the unifying factor. No matter which angle we pursue that from, many of the core understanding of these subjects do require us to understand consciousness and what it entails. With that context in place, we can 'empathise' and understand 'other species' (from physical point of view) to how we are all infact connected. Because lets face it, humans are hostile and xenophobic too. Projecting that on the 'aliens' (the very term denotes 'other') shows only our fear and xenophobia. We are more likely to be killed by a fellow human being, than an advanced race which is already capable of inter-stellar inter-dimensional travel, which can level our planet if they wanted to (anecdotal evidence suggests they have 'switched off' our nuclear missiles' on occasions). So all the paranoia is largely due our inaccessibilty of the whole picture and understanding of this subject. We are projecting fears into the dark. There is so much more to know and consider before we presume we are 'informed' on this matter.

All forms of life and being are simply variations on a single theme: we are all in fact one being doing the same things in as many different ways as possible." ~Alan Watts

originally posted by: krines
a reply to: JackHill

Have you made room for the human 'ARV' (Alien reproduction vehicles) used to abduct humans and perpetuate this anti-alien narrative?? So many people have no conscious recollection of 'alien' encounters , even if they were pleasant encounters, simply because the conscious mind framework, the filters of information do not have the room to incorporate those astral level of info.
Also Hollywood has been promoting this fear-based anti-alien narrative, so I doubt the government is 'operating under secrecy to maintain a status quo'. If anything these are clues to the propaganda machine of how to manipulate the bent of thinking in people who are largely unaware of the alien 'issue' towards fear and paranoia. That ensures complicit consent to weaponise space, should the situation come. Because people respond to fear based situations a lot more urgently than ones that might promote long-term benefit for all.
Werner Von Braun has already outlined the timetable for 'hoax alien invasion' , which seems to be nearing. Promoting fear and paranoia is in the best interest of any 'group', seeking control. Even the Betty and Barney Hill 'abduction' case was actually mysteriously pleasant . Some have theorised that the memory black out is simply to prevent 'trauma' of fear that most people experience when they experience something they cannot explain, or even to simply keep their lives as normal as possible. Many people under hypnosis will elbaorate on experiences they have no recollection of in their conscious waking state.


I think your comment, while reflects your own opinion of the matter, largely ignores all these facets of the issue. I havent had the chance to read your other comments so maybe I am reading this superficially, but have you looked into the issues listed above? The human version of 'abduction' scenarios planted to make people more and more afraid of the whole scene of Alien contact and disclosure.

I've listening to the abductees and the researchers, there's no defined patterns (the important word being PATTERNS) whatsoever that would suggest any human organization doing the abductions, at all. Please, listen to the actual witnesses. You mentioned the Hill case, do you really believe any human organization had the technology back then to immobilize two people, erase the actual 'memories' and suplant them with 'aliens' recollections? Do you undertsand that such phenomena is global and not only happens in the US territory, that in fact, it has been happening all over the globe? No human organization had back then the resources, logistic and technology to pull off such a thing. Not even now.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: southbeach

Great points.

Interesting about Whitley's The Key. That only reinforces my conviction that it's a grand manipulation along with thousands of others. Did he post samples of the changes?

AGREED about The Key and the globalist plan. I just think it's a piece of the puzzle that fits their plans well.

Bo Xian, here you go:

www.unknowncountry.com...

As for my humble point of view to this topic, I'll take a quote from The Key, "All mankind in all time is a whole being."

With the above being said, maybe disclosure is more like a maturity (or immaturity) of our collective conscience, and, until it hits a certian critical mass, we stay where we are at.

As for the positive and negative forces affecting this disclosure, or enhancement of collective conscience...I have more days than not where I believe the identity of such forces is trivial compared to what the outcome will be...somewhere between nothingness and everything and both (to get quantum-y)

A 1974 Ken Kesey's take, quote:

Just back from Egypt, Ken was excited about the struggle going on for the human soul," because we humans were compassionate, we would win, " he emphasized.

www.ochcom.org...

www.huliq.com...

I think that mabey the inner earth people will revel themselves first. Then after that mabey we all find out about the Gray's and reptilians and others after that.

Firstly, comments about Strieber are from uninformed opinions. I've read most his books and some you've never likely seen. He is someone to listen to very carefully.

Secondly, no one knows the whole picture. Our limited awareness and understanding of the physics of the universe and the reality of what is transpiring in our little bubble of reality is less than ignorance and borders on blindness.

Alien realities are so different in context to our simpleton modes and linear perception that any opinion or theorem we might fancy we have are less than illusory.

If you have not remembered an experience or any contact with beings from "outside" our world, dimension or reality, never had or seen the inexplicable experience of a UFO or all the anomolies that run the gamut of protrusions into our lives you can't begin to even guess what is going on. When someone writes about their opinion or judge another's honest experience as best they can explain it, they are then clearly seen as ignorant, scared or worse.

Science won't help us understand these phenomena, because our science is profoundly lacking in the understanding or even an inclusion of the most important component of our universe. Consciousness. Being. Awareness of the self and the unlimited nature of everything. Science has a big problem when it cannot add any equation for infinity or conciousness to any formula or mathematical idea.

We are very young. So young we can't even feed ourselves without poisoning the environment and ourselves. So young we are filling our diapers with waste and cannot change ourselves so the waist and toxins, poisons and ionizing matter just flows like water from us into our crib.

Have a little humility when judging others insights and experiences or understandings, or otherwise you just sound ignorant.

The realities we discuss here are real. We have experienced them. We are talking about them as best we can. The discussion will, if listened to carefully and without judgement, eventually give a hint and a flavor (a qualitative fact) that will tell you something that is actually real.

Assume you are ignorant and everything you experience becomes knowledge. Fight for your ignorant opinions and chastise others out of unconscious or conscious fears and you remain as stupid as a bag of rocks. (Apologies to rocks).

This one of infinite universes is also infinite. It's nature beyond our minuscule imaginations. Yet if you have humility and can suspend deadening opinions and an adapted belief system you have the chance to stand in wonder at the beauty and infinite diversity of your human experience in this and infinite worlds.

Keep your diapers on however. The real word is not for the faint of heart.

ZG

a reply to: BO XIAN

I have no clue whether or if what Whitley Streiber describes is real but I honestly believe he believes that what happens to him is real.

Here is an interesting interview with him:

At a guess ,they control time and thus their exposure.
That is the only way they could maintain such a close hidden hand,for so long.

originally posted by: openminded2011
a reply to: BO XIAN

This is way out on the fringe but I will lay it out there. I remember reading a hypothesis once on this phenomenon, that these entities were indeed transdimensional, the "ultraterrestrials" that John Keel wrote about. They make forays into our reality, but cannot exist in it for long. As some quantum physics experiments show, the act of observation literally affects the nature of reality. In other words, the more "real" these beings become to the general public, the more of a beachhead they establish in our reality. Keeping belief in them in the domain of the "tin foil hat crowd" may in fact be a way of keeping them from gaining more of a foothold in our world. Maybe this is the real reason for the coverup? I don't know but it was an interesting theory.

I think this theory has a lot of merit. Whitley as well believes it may be true to some degree, that the government is keeping it secret truly for our good. If you study the writings of Kenneth Grant he also states that focus and belief help to create portals for their ingress.

a reply to: BO XIAN

I think that Whitley Streiber absolutely believes that what he says is the truth.

This fact, for me, leaves only 2 options: He is imagining it; He isn't imagining it.

Everything else I could say would be conjecture, of course.

I reiterate: Whitley Streiber BELIEVES what he is saying.

It is fundamental that the wheat be separated from the chaff, both with the idea that there are aliens but more importantly, given the history of disinformation; that those who are active in the disinformation campaign be "outed" and shown for who they are.

In his latest Book "The Super Natural" which I highly recommend by the way, Streiber is offering a summary of what he thinks, may be going on, and has been and probably will, he is unsure if we are being visited by aliens, in his own words, " in the general sense." He says its not impossible that is who they are. He also speculates that maybe the visitors are from some alternate/parallel universe as well. He has talked about the hundreds of thousands of replies he and his wife Ann have received over the years from his Communion series of books, so its obvious he is far from alone in his experiences. He also speculates in his view, its possible the CIA, the Air Force and NASA do not understand what is going on, and if the situation is dangerous. He said he feels it could be. In the new book he has expanded in much greater detail some of his own, as well as friends who have had unusual experiences both at his former cabin site and other places. I am debating rereading the book because there is just so much more depth and experiences and thoughts to absorb. Its probably one of the best books I have ever read on the subject matter of ufo's/aliens and abductions and experiences.

a reply to: data5091

I think the government/military are aware of what's going on. But as you said, probably don't understand much of it. Thanks for the book mention, I'll check it out when I'm done with my current read