Colorado May Replace Obamacare with Single Payer

a reply to: carewemust

I was thinking something along the same lines. Colorado is a gorgeous state, but it does remain lacking for some things, like beaches, oceans, and warm weather in the winter. People will want to eventually leave Colorado's borders on occasion. What if they get hurt when they do?

originally posted by: dogstar23
a reply to: ketsuko

It's not a cop-out, it's just reality. Do you really think it could happen in the US without it turning into a huge bonanza for moneyed interests, rather than savings for individuals and businesses?

Also, I'm not socialist, though I do believe nationalized healthcare is in our best interests. 17% of our GDP and growing is a much bigger threat to the nation than any terrorist organization could ever hope to be.

I have only to look at our crumbling public schools to see what would happen to socialized health care.

Corruption is rampant there top to bottom and people can't escape it unless you are wealthy enough to either homeschool your children or put them in a private school, but even so, you are still being taxed for the corrupt and crumbling public ones. The kids stuck in them are little walking experiments for every curriculum that comes along and all kinds of social engineering, and far, far too many of them come out without even knowing most of the basics.

But the unions and the administrators and the district higher ups downtown are all getting rich, so it doesn't matter. Right?

I can't wait until health care works exactly the same way!

If one looks at the cost of living indexes for all across Colorado state, it appears that that healthcare is already the least expensive cost incurred by the majority of the populations there. The only places where it is the most expensive is in rural regions.

Cost of living Colorado

Is it really going to benefit the citizens in Colorado? Or cause more harm in the long run?

a reply to: CynConcepts

I would say that it would add fuel to those four or five rural counties who were trying to secede from Colorado to either join neighboring states or convince counties from neighboring states that were just as rural to likewise secede and form a new state with them.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: CynConcepts

I would say that it would add fuel to those four or five rural counties who were trying to secede from Colorado to either join neighboring states or convince counties from neighboring states that were just as rural to likewise secede and form a new state with them.

Why would they want to secede? This law would benefit them the most!

a reply to: CynConcepts

I'm sorry. I thought you were referring to projections after single payer. My bad.

Do you expect it to be an enormous success when a large portion of the rest of the country as well as the federal government want it to fail?

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

The state has its own internal system. If it succeeds, it does so on the merits of what Colorado does with it or whether or not such a system works.

If you take that attitude with everything, it simply functions as the same sort of excuse as "just haven't found the right people" which is often used for failing socialist states. I guess you could then say that the tax cut regime and their inability to fully transition to a working sales tax only model like the ones in Florida, Delaware and Texas, which we know work, is simply because the other states and the Feds didn't want it to work in Kansas for some silly reason.

Small business owners would be effected greatly. Where I live (rural Colorado), average wage is about $35,000. A 6.7% tax would be $11,725 per year in additional taxes for just 5 employees. A lot of small businesses are struggling as it is.

But, the employee's share would only be $96.25 per month, which is an affordable figure for individuals, looking at it from the employee's point of view.

This would be great for Colorado's business. With businesses not needing to provide health care to their workers, I could see a bunch of corporate relocations to Colorado if this becomes law.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I say let them do it. Let them do it and then let the rest of the country stand back and watch what happens.

Shoot, in 2 decades we're going to be full blown socialist/communist and more than half the country will be Islamic.

a reply to: TheBulk

Slippery slope much? I'd say the vast majority of the population know that total Socialism/Communism are awful ideas.

a reply to: ketsuko

It's actually a fairly decent and logical excuse, though. Speaking strictly of the extreme sides of the spectrums (far right and far left) the problem is inevitably people, not the systems themselves. The issue with Socialism isn't Socialism, it's Humans.

And to be honest, the problem with the US as it stands is its horrifically inefficient, useless, wasteful spending. It should be able to make basically any system work with the revenue it has now.

originally posted by: xuenchen
The State of Colorado in a "Pikes Peak or Bust" moment has a thing on their ballot this November to actually initiate a single payer health system.



According to a recent New York Times article, the insurance industry and conservative groups are already lining up to oppose the plan.

I can understand why business would be against it but why would the insurance industry be against it?
I mean they are still getting their money, correct?

Would it be because it would set a bad precedent if other states were to follow and where would the insurance industry have left to run to for the gravy train?

It is sort of like Walmart opposing any attempts at labor organizing and they would rather shutdown rather than let workers have bargaining power that would cut into their profits.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: CynConcepts

Never underestimate the power of "free" stuff.

Obamacare should more aptly be called Corporate Care.
It was never about free stuff. My premiums have gone up, those without always had it free, and insurance stocks are higher than ever.

It was a stealth bail out for the insurance industry.
One way or the other, the insurance industry is going to take a paycut because their prices are unsustainable in the global economy we have been thrown into. They will eventually run out of other peoples money.

originally posted by: Greggers
I am all for single payer, but I have my doubts it can work at the state level. I think it has to be done at the national level to work.

Exactly!
Since The Insurance Industry is against it, perhaps this the start of a good thing.
hotair.com...

Meanwhile, as Americans are suffering from rising costs and less access to quality health care, the biggest winners from the passage of Obamacare are the insurance giants. In the aftermath of the government health care takeover, there has been an explosion of health insurance company profits, windfalls and megamergers. As “stock market darlings,” health insurance company profits have skyrocketed to all-time highs and stocks have split even thanks to the health care law.

originally posted by: schuyler
So what happens to those who do not work, are unemployed, etc. Does the "payroll tax" subsidize these folks?

Those people always got free healthcare when they just went to the emergency room and left others to pay for it.
I think others would still be paying for it

originally posted by: Greggers

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: dogstar23

... if done right (which it probably wouldn't be) ...

I love this phrase. I see it attached to so many socialist proposals. It's almost like you are setting yourselves an out from the beginning ...

Kind of like capitalist proposals, which have a long, storied history of not being implemented correctly, both here in this country and abroad.

Excellent point
The Big Banks sing praise to capitalism while holding out their hands to the tax payers to bail them out

originally posted by: lightedhype
Bottom line is something needs to be done about current healthcare prices. As another post pointed out, currently the prices are inflated about 5x because the hospital has to over charge the health insurance companies greatly or they wont get enough. They overcharge and then settle. It is ludicrous.

In a free market, prices would be a fraction of what they are now, but there would be a lot of dead people as well.
The insurance companies take a lot of your money to give to shareholders, bonuses and politicians

www.opensecrets.org...

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $3,146,090,212
Insurance $2,190,651,832
Electric Utilities $2,013,127,133
Electronics Mfg & Equip $1,823,347,451
Business Associations $1,811,811,643
Oil & Gas $1,715,405,541
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,416,425,661
Education $1,399,862,870
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,310,021,801
Telecom Services $1,271,840,866
Securities & Investment $1,264,774,284
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,216,181,432
Real Estate $1,215,135,758
Health Professionals $1,189,983,794
Air Transport $1,125,384,003
Misc Issues $929,225,311
Automotive $891,793,138
Defense Aerospace $887,354,553
Health Services/HMOs $863,410,051
TV/Movies/Music $851,379,595

originally posted by: ketsuko


I can't wait until health care works exactly the same way!

I agree that the quality of healthcare will worsen but not for the reasons you suggest
Our crumbling infrastructure and collapsing industries is an effect from the NWO Globalization.

Many countries have protectionist measures to protect their economy and workers but not ours.
The doors were thrown wide open for Americans, skilled and unskilled to compete with third world and communist labor in India, China, Mexico and so on.

So the result is less money for Americans and less taxes from Americans for infrastructure.
Everyone is taking a bite of the s sandwhich except the ones that have politicians on speed dial like the Banking or Insurance Industry.

The Multinational Corporations that engineered and lobbyed for these trade pacts are sitting pretty