A U.S. gunship attack on a hospital in Afghanistan that killed 42 people

It is just another example of how CYA is still the dominant tactic in the military. I know it was back when I was in. I had never heard the term before, Cover Your Ass. Rule Numero Uno.

Shameful to me, that the government I pay taxes to is destroying a hospital with patients with my tax dollars. My government has become a source of such evil. So it goes with zealotry.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm not really sure there are Russian atrocities in Syria. There have been a few stories in the MSM about such things, but like MH17, those stories were never proved.

If Putin were such a war monger, why didn't he go to war with Turkey over the shootdown? Instead, he exercises restraint.

originally posted by: UnBreakable

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: UnBreakable

Its also worth noting that sense 911 that the ultimate war crime is never brought to the for front of these wars .Along with the drugs and weapons that is very closely linked they are pigeon holed and if need be put under the cover of security . This piece is a good little read ...How the CIA Writes History By Jefferson Morley www.informationclearinghouse.info...

Disturbing. But this says it all. Bold is mine.

The Cold War is over and Angleton is gone, but the espionage techniques he mastered — mass surveillance, disinformation, targeted assassination, and extrajudicial detention — remain with us, albeit on a much larger scale. Since September 11, 2001, the power of secret intelligence agencies to shape our future is obvious. Yet it wasn’t until I went to Georgetown in search of one of Angleton’s darkest secrets that I came away with a personal lesson in how the CIA makes history — by erasing it.

It may be relevant to mention James Jesus Angleton maintained his headquarters overseas in the Vatican. The CIA and the big Red, White and Blue history eraser. The story is main thing shaping the opinions of most people. We trust in a narrative of history that tells us what our country was and is to be - or supposedly was.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm not really sure there are Russian atrocities in Syria. There have been a few stories in the MSM about such things, but like MH17, those stories were never proved.

If Putin were such a war monger, why didn't he go to war with Turkey over the shootdown? Instead, he exercises restraint.

Actually they DID prove it was russians BUKS. didnt you get the black box recording data ?

a reply to: yuppa

Who is "they"?

The Russian manufacturer of the BUK system actually did some tests, and determined that IF a BUK had been employed, the pattern and details of the damage show it to be from a very early model missile, one no longer in the Russian inventory, but quite likely in the Ukrainian inventory.

Personally I am skeptical of the BUK theory, but there is evidence for AAM and cannon fire.

Well fair is fair...... the rest of the story. Oh but, but...

lubpak.com...

Who are the villains ? the ones who make a mistake or the ones who intentionally suicide bomb hundreds in city centers or populations of innocent civilians. Here we have cities with Civic Leaders, there they have territorial War Lords.

a reply to: Salander

It was a BUK and there was no evidence of an air to air missile nor machine gun impacts. The Russian "experts" said it was a BUK and somehow miraculously determined the missile that was used was only in the possession of Ukraine, which was another lie the Russians told.

Russia has targeted civilian infrastructure and when you arent using smart bombs the chances of missing the target are higher.

Russia has hit hospitals and refuses yo admit to it. At least the US investigated and released a report for everyone to see.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: odzeandennz

Would you prefer the US deny it like Russia and the Syrian government do when they attack hospitals and kill civilians?.

Its a combat zone and while the goal is to only hit enemy positions it does not always happen.

Yeah.

Do you remember when those Russians told the world blatant lies about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Do you remember when they illegally invaded the country, killing people by thousands, raping, desecrating holy places, looting, destroying the most basic infraestructures, displacing millions of people... erasing a whole country?

Those bastards, the Russians.

originally posted by: valleean
Yeah.

Do you remember when those Russians told the world blatant lies about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

I remember them lying and invading Afghanistan in the 70'/80's and lying when they invaded Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. I also remember them lying when they occupied E. Europe for 50 + years after WWII of course they had to lie since they were allied with the Nazis till '41.

I do remember wikileaks releasing documents about wmd's being found in Iraq in addition to papers showing a lot of those Iraqi programs being transferred to Syria. I also remember an Israeli airstrike on Iraqi nuclear facilities in addition to them striking Syrian nuclear facilities.

I do remember Russia lying about giving N. Korea nuclear weapons when they built them the YongBong reactor.

But why split hairs or, you know, care about facts.

originally posted by: valleean
Do you remember when they illegally invaded the country, killing people by thousands, raping, desecrating holy places, looting, destroying the most basic infrastructures, displacing millions of people... erasing a whole country?

Those bastards, the Russians.

Last I checked the countries are still present so please explain your overly dramatic claim of a country being erased.
I remember Hussein's supporters and detractors doing that in Iraq. I also recall Russia watching ISIS destroy ancient sites and only got involved to back Assad and not protect the ancient sites.

Coming back to the topic yes the US hit a hospital. The US admitted to it.

Still waiting on the same from Russia reference the hospitals they hit.

I am a little rusty on the UCMJ, but I am fairly certain they would not go to a court Martial unless they could prove that they intended to kill innocents... when they can end the persons career with a bit of paper work that will prevent them from re-enlistment and get them out the door in an other than honorable discharge.

If they beat the court martial proceedings, they get a clean record going forwards.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: valleean
Yeah.

Do you remember when those Russians told the world blatant lies about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

I remember them lying and invading Afghanistan in the 70'/80's and lying when they invaded Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. I also remember them lying when they occupied E. Europe for 50 + years after WWII of course they had to lie since they were allied with the Nazis till '41.

I do remember wikileaks releasing documents about wmd's being found in Iraq in addition to papers showing a lot of those Iraqi programs being transferred to Syria. I also remember an Israeli airstrike on Iraqi nuclear facilities in addition to them striking Syrian nuclear facilities.

I do remember Russia lying about giving N. Korea nuclear weapons when they built them the YongBong reactor.

But why split hairs or, you know, care about facts.

originally posted by: valleean
Do you remember when they illegally invaded the country, killing people by thousands, raping, desecrating holy places, looting, destroying the most basic infrastructures, displacing millions of people... erasing a whole country?

Those bastards, the Russians.

Last I checked the countries are still present so please explain your overly dramatic claim of a country being erased.
I remember Hussein's supporters and detractors doing that in Iraq. I also recall Russia watching ISIS destroy ancient sites and only got involved to back Assad and not protect the ancient sites.

Coming back to the topic yes the US hit a hospital. The US admitted to it.

Still waiting on the same from Russia reference the hospitals they hit.

Both Russian and US administrations have been proven pathological and criminal liars.

Do you know MIchael Morell? He's the former CIA Deputy Director. He wrote a book, "The Great War of Our Time: The CIA's Fight Against Terrorism From Al Qaeda to ISIS". He states the following in the book:

"We said he [Saddam Hussein] has chemical weapons, he has a biological weapons production capability, and he's restarting his nuclear weapons program. We were wrong on all three of those".

Do you remember Colin Powell delivering his speech in the UN on the Iraqi WMD to rationalize the invasion?

He lied.

(On the confusion and lies regarding the WMD in Iraq, I recommend this article: Twelve years later, US Media still can't get Iraqi WMD story right).

Do you remember one of the main justifications for the 1990-91 Gulf War? This is from Wikipedia:

-- During a speech in a special joint session of the U.S. Congress given on 11 September 1990, U.S. President George H. W. Bush summed up the reasons with the following remarks: "Within three days, 120,000 Iraqi troops with 850 tanks had poured into Kuwait and moved south to threaten Saudi Arabia. It was then that I decided to act to check that aggression."[91]
The Pentagon stated that satellite photos showing a buildup of Iraqi forces along the border were this information's source, but this was later alleged to be false. A reporter for the St. Petersburg Times acquired two commercial Soviet satellite images made at the time in question, which showed nothing but empty desert.[92] --

He lied.

And the story about Iraqi soldiers pulling babies out of incubators and letting them die on the floor, do you remember? From the Wiki:

-- The story was an influence in tipping both the public and Congress towards a war with Iraq: six Congressmen said the testimony was enough for them to support military action against Iraq and seven Senators referenced the testimony in debate. The Senate supported the military actions in a 52–47 vote. A year after the war, however, this allegation was revealed to be a fabrication. The woman who had testified was found to be a member of Kuwait's Royal Family, in fact the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the U.S.[95] She hadn't lived in Kuwait during the Iraqi invasion. --

It was another lie.

And we can continue, but no need, the point is proven: Americans, as Russians do, tell and rationalize blatant and criminal lies to advance their political agendas.

What a big discovery.

About the erasure of Iraq... Yes, it was erased, totally and criminally erased by the Americans some years ago. Socially, politically, culturally erased. You can keep calling Iraq to those ruins from which ISIS scumbag is raising. This is up to you. But the country once known as Iraq does not exist any more.

a reply to: valleean

If your only pointing at Iraq and not Iraq and Libya, which proved it doesnt matter which party is in charge we will still start a conflict based off false information peddled by the party in charge I have to wonder why you only focus on 1 party...

Now if your from the America in general is the root of all evil in the world crowd... I have to laugh and point out that our body count is nothing compared to the rest of the "civilized" west.

originally posted by: valleean

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: odzeandennz

Would you prefer the US deny it like Russia and the Syrian government do when they attack hospitals and kill civilians?.

Its a combat zone and while the goal is to only hit enemy positions it does not always happen.

Yeah.

Do you remember when those Russians told the world blatant lies about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? Do you remember when they illegally invaded the country, killing people by thousands, raping, desecrating holy places, looting, destroying the most basic infraestructures, displacing millions of people... erasing a whole country?

Those bastards, the Russians.

Those weapons were sent to SYRIA. where you know who used them. They were moved before the war so to give the impression of Iraqs innocence. ALthough Iraq part 2 was a mistake and should had been done in the first war if they wanted saddam.

ALso WHere was the mass raping you are talking about? Didnt see anything about that during the second war in iraq, Didnt see anything about them destroying holy sites either.

ALso your deaths were also casualties of war and not intended or deliberate. The terrorist are responsible for over half due to IED's and attacks on civilians for propaganda.

Now the russians in Afghanistan were committing genocide intentionally. big difference.

Also Iraq still exist. the people still exist. The ones whowere in charge arent in charge anymore so im guessing you are whining about your buddies not being in charge anymore right?

a reply to: Xcathdra

If it had been a BUK, why hasn't any of the western governments making the claim been able to prove it?

I saw it with my own eyes when it happened--there WAS forensic evidence of cannon fire out on the upper surface of the left wing. Nobody shows that picture anymore because it's too damning to the official story.

MH17 was just another false flag operation by US and Israeli interests, and god knows who else, meant to vilify Russia and Putin.

Your cannon fire was after crash in actuality then. The SU-25 CANNOT REACH THAT HEIGHT WITH A LOAD OF GUN AMMO INSIDE IT BTW 16,000 ft is way below 35,000.The manufacturers have said coudnt make that altitude and it was to slow to catch up to the airliner. Always visit the manufacturer of a weapons system for accurate metrics and operational profiles.

The pattern of impacts does suggest shrapnel warheads. They had a third party examine the wreckage and the flight recorders to avoid this manipulation claim you are using. It was a head on shot that hit on the left front. The pilot didnt have any warning or chance to even say mayday.

Oh but the su-25 has missiles..... YEah but not powerful enough to ONESHOT MH117. Heatseekers would had hit the engines. And their warheads are not big enough to had done such damage. i know of one instance where a passenger plane survived a direct missile shot to it and it landed safely.

I know you think mother russia can do no wrong but the facts speak volumes here.

a reply to: TechniXcality

US military knew they were attacking civilians. The reasoning was that the Dr.'s without borders hospital was treating enemy combatants along with civilians/allied combatants. The agency or whoever gave the call attacked for the aforementioned reaon according to Dr.'s without borders.

I'm glad our soldiers were not harmed in this event.
It has been handed through the proper channels and handled and was
declared not a war crime,
which I agree with. People die in war. It's a shame for those doctors
but they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Sometimes accidents happen.

If that is true that those doctors were helping the
enemy than they became the enemy too.
Like Trump said - even the families of the enemy will be considered the enemy as well and dealt with.
Now I don't feel bad for those doctors.
Assist the enemy element and you deserve what you get.

a reply to: Salander

The Dutch did talk about it and since they are the lead investigating agency it would be inappropriate for a nation to speak with authority on the topic. Naturally Russia dismissed the report because it didn't reflect what they wanted, which was to blame Ukraine.

The air to air missile and air to air cannon fire were not possible given the aircraft involved, there altitudes and the evidence.

Considering the rebels tampered with the crash sites I trust their version of events even less.

and no I don't believe you witnessed any of it. It seems to convenient, just like when Russia suddenly found "the Ukrainian pilot" involved and the "Foreign ATC" from Spain who was not real, and the fake image of the plane firing a missile at mh-17, and Russia using the exact same image with its aircraft and Turkey...

a reply to: yuppa

There are several SU25 pilots on record saying that the airplane CAN fly and maneuver at those altitudes.

Personally, I'm not certain it was SU25, but I am certain there were fighter aircraft maneuvering on the airliner.