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Lost in Thought and Action

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posted on May, 14 2016 @ 01:58 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost
Are we defined by our Beliefs or our Actions?

I think most people would argue that we are defined by our actions as opposed to our beliefs. After all, beliefs are generally passive; we maintain them, but do not have to express them through action. Whereas actions are generally active; we express them overtly and they affect others. Much of the time, an action is the direct expression of a belief: if I am thirsty, I will pour myself a glass a water and drink as I believe doing so will quench my thirst. Sometimes it is not: a pacifist, non-violent person shoving somebody else who is threatening their life.

So when does the line between belief and action get blurred? It seems this happens when you try to strictly define both belief and action. Technically speaking, thinking itself is an action, even though it is a physically passive activity. I am yet to meet a person who does not have bad/dark/negative thoughts at least rarely and only has good/light/positive thoughts. But it would be illogical to define somebody by the types of thoughts they have alone; after all, our personal thoughts do not directly influence anybody else, unless they somehow transform into action.

For example, say I have a neighbour who is travelling pretty well in life — he has a successful marriage, a loving family, a wide social network and is financially secure. Say I don't have all of those things and secretly am envious of him. I might hold deep, negative thoughts about him and even — subconsciously — hope that he loses these things because it's not fair he has them and I don't. Nevertheless, I don't speak negatively about him to other neighbours, always lend him tools if he is in need, and even invited him and his family over for dinner on the odd occasion, which they graciously accept from time to time.

Some would say this makes you somewhat "fake". That I am lying to myself and the neighbour by being friendly with him while harbouring negative feelings/thoughts about him. I tend to disagree with this assertion though; doesn't this really show that in this example, I am a strong and considerate person who values treating others with respect even while struggling with my own inner demons?

That is precisely why I could theoretically be friends with anybody, depsite whether their beliefs support or conflict with my own. I can be friends with racists, anti-semites, homophobes, transgenders, environmentalists, animal rights activists, anarchists, flat-earthists, conservatives, liberals, progressives, libertarians etc. because I do not define people by their beliefs alone. I do not even judge people by their actions because I realise most people do not act rationally in times of stress and difficultly.

I understand this is a rather unique perspective to maintain and I know not everyone will agree. Nonetheless, I was curious if anybody on this website could relate to what I have said and maybe share their thoughts.


When I was young I thought like you did, but as I aged I understood why all the sages suggest right thought along with right action. It's impossible to not have negative thoughts bleed into actions. It's impossible. That doesn't mean you just suppress your envy, though I do believe it's wrong. I believe that if you achieve actual happiness, irrespective of circumstances, you don't find the need for wrong thoughts. I also believe it's stupid to punish yourself for wrong thoughts, as that leads towards self hate and right action is impossible with self hate.




posted on May, 14 2016 @ 02:17 AM
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originally posted by: WhateverYouSay

When I was young I thought like you did, but as I aged I understood why all the sages suggest right thought along with right action. It's impossible to not have negative thoughts bleed into actions. It's impossible. That doesn't mean you just suppress your envy, though I do believe it's wrong. I believe that if you achieve actual happiness, irrespective of circumstances, you don't find the need for wrong thoughts. I also believe it's stupid to punish yourself for wrong thoughts, as that leads towards self hate and right action is impossible with self hate.


I think that is probably the wisest thing I've seen in this thread so far!
But that's just my opinion.

I think you are right. We used to think that all we express in the world verbally or through movement was that which we consciously chose to express.... then we learned how the subconscious sneaks it's two cents in that slippery- Freud way, and how we can totally sabotage our conscious intents because we were holding beliefs and thoughts which were opposing.

Whenever I find myself running into the same sort struggle or bad situation, I always start my self analysis by looking at what ALL my thoughts, feelings and beliefs concerning the subject are, going as deep as possible.

Because it seems like maybe 80 or 90% of the time, my problems in life are due to me having incompatible ideas which trip each other up!



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 03:59 AM
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originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
When I was young I thought like you did, but as I aged I understood why all the sages suggest right thought along with right action. It's impossible to not have negative thoughts bleed into actions. It's impossible. That doesn't mean you just suppress your envy, though I do believe it's wrong. I believe that if you achieve actual happiness, irrespective of circumstances, you don't find the need for wrong thoughts. I also believe it's stupid to punish yourself for wrong thoughts, as that leads towards self hate and right action is impossible with self hate.

Thoughts are thoughts - it is when thoughts are divided into 'negative' and 'positive' that they become troublesome. If there seems to be 'someone in there' concerned with thought - then there is an issue - because that is conflict.
Thought just happens - there is 'no one in there' separately doing thought - but the belief might be - 'I should not think this or that' - instead 'I should be thinking something other'. The belief that these thoughts should not be happening is the issue.
The dis ease arises with words like 'should' or 'shouldn't'! The belief that things (including thought) should not be happening is the conflict.

All action is neutral - when this is realized then all action is 'right action'. All that happens happens - it is too late to make it not happen. Can any cloud be labelled wrong or right? Clouds come and clouds go in the sky - the sky does not mind!
edit on 14-5-2016 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 04:34 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain
indeed people should all over themselves and everyone else and have simply forgot how to just be, nothing wrong with just being, or who anyone is... that why ive been smacking the conceptual its just make believe hammer for so long all over the place... its like a game of whack a mole. Since it is make believe why take it so serious and ruin so many lives when that make believe is open and wonderful when its not repression and hate and bias and bigotry and anti this and anti that control you and program this like one can never grow up and have a choice... even if youre 110 someone is gonna should you from craddle to grave.

it arises and it passes it comes and goes... it stops and it flows... its just concept if its not benfiting the entire world or making a case for equality its crap.

Lemme just justify why college or health care aint no kinda good free but spending billions to kill people we dont know, but spread hate on em so its like you know em when you dont and if you do you know its nothing but lies.

Yeah people are as dumb as reality tv has portrayed them to be, so good luck with keeping that sinking ship afloat... there are 3 generations behind the boomers going yall are out of touch with reality... and the ones in those 3 generations biting that poop sandwich and smiling are an extreme minority... fighting so hard to keep bathrooms in a christian ideal when its supposed to be separation of church and state is a fine example of how desperate that demographic that is going the way of the dodo is... to keep nonsense alive even if they wont be regardless of diet or not doing this or not doing that death happens... morals arent going to stop it from happening. Ethics wont either but at least its live and let live mind your own business... and quit shoulding all over people trying to control by power people gave them in the first place. Its rediculous and most all of the world knows that.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 06:15 PM
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originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: vethumanbeing

BBDL So its better to fold the hand you were dealt like the back of one of those magazines and lose? Lemmings follow and ive no need for a savior so no need to follow, and dont even want to lead. I leap how and when and where I want but thats simply called freedom.

So, you have a familiarity with that which is expressed as sardonic/irony? Backpedal the 'we are just having fun' humor component (inserted by you as not at all believable). You are playing at character assassination.

edit on 14-5-2016 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:25 PM
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a reply to: vethumanbeing

You seemed to be having fun... in reply our other buddy joined in and seemed to be having fun as well, like 3 drunks singing in a chorus line... if youre not having fun now seeing the images I guess youve sobered up? Im a ton of characters trying to pin anyone down by a small sliver or experiencing them is a biased judgment through ones own lenses of limitation... I dont wear those glasses and when someone tries to put a fake nose on me through the bias-focals theyre wearing not nice at all.

You can be whomever or whatever you want to be, the only person limiting that is you... people pointing and judging trying to limit me? tsk tsk how controlling. Adults do not need parents, especially when they hide behind no group or banner in self or other justification... and stand on their own personal responsibility for their actions and dont hide them like children or make excuses for them or cognitively disassociate from that responsibility cause I have a group called blah blah that supports my irresponsibility to myself and others to be a decent human being to all human beings.

Even people in some groups have that etos tats judge not lest ye shall be judged... that basically states not your job... and it only causes a never ending loop of ignorance based on control from that judgement... weak willed is what it is its called thy rod and thy staff not that one I borrowed to lean on and smack others with.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:38 PM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness


Given the brain of a human (in example) can function in relation to its wave state. In no different a way that in can operate in it particle state, that would be relevant to why many of us, have psi experiences.


In relation and issue would be environmental in retrospect.

One way of relating to psi ability is that it is a developmental issue akin perhaps to learning to walk.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 08:58 PM
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The interesting part of such a conjecture it that in such a wave state even the electrical patterns would be replicated.

In a wave state.

This is an interesting conversation.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: Kashai

In essence thats all matter conglomerated and unconglomerated is, science even back that up time and time again... and the seemingly empty spaces the energy or co operating cause to move from one state to another through a casual nexus.

But yes its all waves... even te collective conscious or unconscious, wen not buried under a huge reoccuring thought wave of personal or ego emination is where it sits or the main seat of consciousness or energy... but it is really empty thought forms echoing waves of sound on a mental level.

When the mind can drop that conceptual load and untangle itself its easy to tune into those energies sometimes specifically because they are all one waveform with their own specific signature, of ones past lives even as tat energy wave of your entire consciousness is still wiggling along same with others on roughly the same level... I think impersonators are very good at tapping into that where they attempt to embody that other persons energy and lose their own.

Some religions develop this and call it a transference of consciousness, transmission of the lamp or reincarnation without taking birth but someone so dedicated to the path that tey are willing to lose or share their consciousness entirely... thats why devotion comes into the picture.

Sure, its likely to be called pseudoscience... but since people are hot to trot to jump into an android form im sure teyll likely be paying close attention and trying to harness such abilities to move beyond the physical body... yes its possible but without a great deal of mental practice or being able to harness a specific wave form and eminate it so that senthetic body pulls it back to itself like gps cells then its likely going to be a failure without years of practice.

But such things in the name of greed or progress do have a lot of consequences that have not even been concidered... say one taps that wave and takes that new form but hasnt realized they are say an incarantion of Hitler as its on that same wave form... and upon taking that body that signature becomes present even as many adherants to him already try to embody him no different than the so called christ consciousness etc. and well then you have a live forever synthetic Hitler that may keep that information secret and start tat whole thing up again... not like people arent trying too themselves but it is of not good to humanity.

So theres one of the issues and draw backs... there are particle polarities and well some are not ones that need continuance especially those of a very dominate controlling ego expressing nature.

I suppose I gave more than what you were asking for, but thats been my experience of consciousness transferance or instant transmission to know or contact any consciousness one so desires... it of course as a supranatural or supramundane power in the wrong hands can be abused and by those knowing it already? It frequently is... and sometimes purely as psychological warfare... thats one of the problem with dual wave form consciousness though tipping back and forth between extremes of bias with no middle ground or root of balance. Attaching to such tings though in a lust for power and control is a hinderance and needs to be lain down and not practiced... because they typically come from a state still mired in ignorance and have no idea what they are doing to others but it certinaly isnt positive and it certinaly isnt bliss.

The path of realization is one of release not attachment... thats the easiest way to remember ones way through no matter what conscious state one finds themselves in heaven(s) or hell(s) helps to also remember all that is conditioned is also impermanent.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 09:33 PM
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The limits of our ability to comprehend in deduction do not allow for an factual orientation to reality.

Based upon what we today understand Infinity mathematically is a fact.

In irony what remains is supporting that position et all.

In potential a moment is infinite.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: Kashai

tis so tis so... that very attachment is also its very prevention.

The potiential moment to be infinite is what chan/zen masters have been MUing, EGGing on and clapping in one handed appreciation about for centuries now, with spontaneious awakening to reality unattached to any concept from any sense or the mind that filters or discriminates them. Simply being, Wu Wei... being nobody going no where, pure consciousness itself unhindered beyond suffering unattached yet while in form? Tries to point others the exit to such freedom as a fire that burns without fuel... it seems a futility I can assure you but happiness only pauses for empathy to those not knowing mired in that never ending suffering.

It simply is what it is beyond any and all concepts and it needs no help of any sort it being what it is? Its already in harmony due to its very nature of being.



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness


In hypothesis, imagine a predator whose senses only allowed to perceive quantum activity.

How exactly would it be able to find food and thus sustain itself?



posted on May, 14 2016 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: Kashai

sounds like if it was only to percieve quantum energy then it would have no perception of anything else, as it takes more than one conciousness to do so, like eye perception consciousness requires mind perception conciousness and tose two together would make the rest an impossibility... so preditor and prey become moot as all it knows is a singular thing that cannot distingush itself from other with a singular faculty of conscious perception.

Weve got a consciousness of 5 senses a mind consciousness to sort and distingish those 5 attachment not required and yet another that percieves beyond those 6 or basically the void or all pervasive space, this is the seat of consciousness not attached to the other 6 yet it has full experience of them without any conceptual attachment... or simply put just being, but since there is still a form even if it is gross or subtle mundane or supra mundane there is an experience of life and existence, yet not conditioned to such concepts that limit condition. Yet there is a choice of contact if one so chooses nothing really goes away except the bias of self even though there is a self its not an ego self... so its self but not self as the old edicts go.

I am however still in this form for a reason, and that reason is my son... I didnt want to leave him such pain of loss, as Ive always tried to make his life less stressful as possible... from not avoiding a divorce dispute from his moms post partum that made her regress to a younger state because her parents were demanding grand children, ad an existential crisis and well I was taking care of him while she went drinking and well cheated handed me devorce papers once her meds started kicking in... I didnt protest I let her have the house and cars and I entered homelessness. It wasnt my home home city and it was a painful separation from my son... she married cheat dude I think or one later and asked adoption I talked to her dad and he said he was a good guy so in order for more stability for him I consented to that as well.

It was tough for a long time being spurned like that, but I told her if we talked it would be all about him, just let any whatever between us go for his benefit. So I stayed away... hes nearly an adult now, so it would be pretty crappy of me to have let go and stayed dead on the cushion and took another birth. But im not here for me... but having that whole experience and through sheer will to not let him lose me? I some how remained. Sure its a possibility at some point at any time for that to occur cause and effect wise, but hes my son and losing him was not fair, him losing me twice? Would have been double unfair.

Of course with te possibilites of alternate realities this may have already occurred at many different levels or densities. Its conceptual so who knows its variable so what constant other than pure seeing consciousness that stares directly at reality moment by moment by moment.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 06:12 PM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness


God forbid something happens to you son what would you do?



We are differentiated in that we are made entirely of Flesh, Cells, Molecules, Atoms, Particles and so on. An issue would be, are we able to perceive reality. Beyond the common senses and orient perceptually to what reality is like at the Quantum Scale.


BigBrotherDarkness , given life after death is life suicide probably does not make things better.

We are in such construct here on this earth for reasons.
edit on 15-5-2016 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarknesslf


To present that Adolf Hitler and his response to society was not also result of his environment.....




Alois was an Austrian customs official and he was able to provide his family with a comfortable lifestyle; however, he and his son did not get along. Alois had a terrible temper and had a general bad attitude. He was obnoxious and conceited, and he often took his problems out on his children.

His wife was the complete opposite from him, but she had virtually no power in the household. Coupled with the fact that women did not have much power to begin with, she was dealing with an aggressive and dominating husband.

Read more at biography.yourdictionary.com...


biography.yourdictionary.com...


Not meaning I personally pardon Adolf Hitler for what he did. But I also see that the world is imperfect, to an extent people are mistreated and even murdered for no good reason at present.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 08:36 PM
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a reply to: Kashai

What would I do? Buy an electric train set and run it from time to time as that was his favorite thing in the world wile I was still in his life, and his energy signature in such would automatically connect and wed share a moment although not in form as per the usual as contact goes with people. Nothing to morn just because a light bulb filment blows making the container that harnessed light no longer useful that doesnt mean light dwelled in that one bulb if so no other bulb would produce light... so just an illusory container we take as a self because its been with us, but restructures on the atomic level thousands of times a second.

Life after life after life is attachment. You can wipe a hard drive and stick it into another computer can you not? You can also do the same ting without wiping the hard drive. Of course what makes that memory or computer even be such is the very energy flowing through it. Same way a tree is like a computer for telling season changes, but once the tree is dead theres no life in it or doesnt function... tis is really no different other than attacments to forms...

Its the energy that animates it, and it is a continuous stream regardless of how many forms... whether one is adept enough to detach from the conceptual conditioning through mind training practice to detach and realize this essential state of being or clear light awakening enlightenment or whatever labels one wants to slap on it it is going to be beyond any conceptual understanding, because that grasping is its very prevention... but once that conceptual house has burned to the ground theres nothing to rebuild its just unbound consciousness yet still has form... and on death after such realization? Lol whats death? An awakened unbound spirit or energy can be anything from a drop of dew to a flower blooming to grass swaying in the wind a cricket chirping anything mind unbinds first, then wen body unbinds? It also is free like the mind already is.

No belief needed, practice always practice and eventually the fruit falls on its own accord.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

Good conversation.



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 08:56 PM
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Energy and Matter based upon Albert Einstein are not separate but equal.


The Wolf could not find food in such a perspective in an altogether way and neither could we.




edit on 15-5-2016 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on May, 15 2016 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: Kashai

Thank you for being cause for such to take place... as its typically whose this that or the other or youre this that or the other based on the conceptual or basically bondage itself... rattling chains all I can do is say stop rattling youve got the key already... mind of bliss heart of empathy, im getting my sea legs so to speak so I may not have to break a vow but time will tell, of course like always sometimes its the company one keeps or guests one invites over to have a peaceful relaxing time can promote understanding and a meeting of the minds.

So thank you again for setting this duck back in its element, as its created a very peacful energy and aided my resolve.




posted on May, 15 2016 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: Kashai
Energy and Matter based upon Albert Einstein are not separate but equal.





The Wolf could not find food in such a perspective in an altogether way and neither could we.









And neither is created nor destroyed... just changes form on both accounts


Hungry hungry hippos is a game thats not much different than hungry like the wolf.




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