Lost in Thought and Action

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: vethumanbeing
Mine was a trick question, if Pandora asks who broke her box out of my duty to honesty I can only say I know te tune but point at you, and suggest not dredging lakes as thats a likely misdirection to buy you more time...

Nice parry; but you didn't answer my question. Not interested in Pandora as she does not represent any metaphor for Absolute Law or Infinity (the problems arrived at with each others totally opposite premise). The chances of a negotiated deal (to coexist) between the two appears dismal.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Unfortunately words can never reveal the absolute but only halfway express it, all that expressing does is point... sometimes directly sometimes indirectly, sometimes on many levels but it all amounts to a hill of beans... when words and expression just build philosophy, religion, society, and ego. One must experience the other half of words, none. Silence. Stillness. Peace. Tranquility. the labels do not make anything but concept and expression of various forms of this contact is all things communicated but half the truth, thats what people take as solid and contrete I can touch it see it feel it etc. of course belief does the same thing but making it personal and not seeing it as the universal unsaid... leaves that half guessing and grasping just as much, simply because to sit down and lose all thought and concept and dwell in a sphere of that true absolute of emptiness shows the entire other half of the picture, then the practice moves from cushions to everyday life and activity unbroken in that peace and serenity, of course its obvious others are not at peace and seeing the full picture and out of empathy one points with compassion, when another refuses to see the pointing out of compassion and empathy then some would say with labels they are no different than a demon but that is just going into duality and labels and solves nothing but drawing lines against equality and equanimity which is the absolute fundamental nature.

So whether you were speaking of Jacks cow to counter Joshus Mu... shows that Jack was also in a box that expectation can buy more than chicken if thats the asumption... but those expectations and assumptions are what te ego self and programming limit itself with, where people will argue theres no free will... karma of course is another law, there are two polarities in law also scientific and humanistic a positive direction and a negative one well obviously these two polarities exist as well for the unseen or spiritual side as well meaning to escape such extremes one must creep a bit closer from their view point and see anothers isnt as scary as thought... and that extreme just moved and the view broadened and a new balance or middle was found... the more one does this, the less extreme views get the more humanistic instead of animalistic or speciesist in our own species we become, towards equality... shedding all of that limited ego viewpoint doesnt come from examining every last pointing or learning every last word, but shedding them like cleaning a dirty plate to eat a healthy meal... but the food is different once that plate people havent washed since birth becomes clean enough to not posion oneself and others with.

So aside from all of these words... I cannot give you that experience... people can have it at anytime, people have recognized it when the mind stops in awe and marvel at something... but the same can occur sitting down and letting it all go for that clean plate. But many walk away with ego still there, they have achieved something... when it is every single last person past up to that point that pointed both good and bad that achieved something... the ones pointing in a good direction are whom we respect and pay reverence too those practicing the same get hommage a nod of thanks for trying and the negative are a lesson of how not to be that solves essentially nothing other than an example that does them and others no good, of course reacing out a hand to unstick them is what compassionate beings do... but one can only slap ones well intended hand away before fine... maybe someone else will take the task as theyve armored themselves against you for whatever reason... later they may want to apologize and express remorse, but that only condones the possibility they slip backwards into that backwardness. When the absolute needs no thanks as it acts out of empathy once seen realized and embodied that wishing or wanting to is still coming from an egotistical self nature that cannot forgive themselves and require it from others, of course in belief they thought it was already there... til so humbled. To continue learning humility one must bite the very bullet they fired and make the very bed they lain in on the way to cleaning their plate so its no longer posioning anyone.

Perhaps none of tis makes sense to the question asked, but at some point it will and to some not oneself it will or already does. Learn to dwell in absolute silence to actually hear, to actually see, etc and then one can finally absolutely experience and be free beyond all of that tat mires people in suffering so attached to a illusion of self and other created delusion instead of reality. Sounds simple I know but rote grasping at concepts is still a concept one has grasped none the less, if already understood then theres nothing to be said and other topics that one may wish to converse about... or not as dwelling in that emptiness is just as friendly a conversation or theres simply work of day to day that must be accomplished like cleaning actual plates instead of metaphorical ones.

Hope youve a nice time of whatever you choose.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

BigBrotherDarkness: Hope youve a nice time of whatever you choose.

Not sure what you are asking me to do/resolve within myself. I have a pragmatic outlook on the 7 seven laws of the Absolute (they are ITS LAWS) and ring true as far as That Entity can describe Itself/justify motives. I have more than just an acquaintance with the aspirations of Infinity as well which are not bound by the Absolute. I am not going to dismantle your argument as it has such beauty describing the person you are and well worth reading.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I ask nothing of you I was just answering the question of the absolute I was asked. The Madimika sp. may be off but thats the relative and absolute of which I was speaking. I am not familiar the the 7 laws or concepts you speak of, but from your character I can tell they likely fall along similar lines as many thought systems do... others may have an interest if you wish to elaborate, it may seem rude that I myself am not really interested in conceptual structures these days, as they are an illusion even though they point to a way of living, thinking, feeling like pretty much all other systems instead of just being. If this has somehow offended you my humblest apologies... but please do not let my lack of interest keep you from sharing your experience, as it is as said obviously opened much to yourself not unlike the practices that I studied and took up many years ago and decided time to walk it as Id had enough pointing practice and talking to make a firm resolve and finally break free for good... now im just a silly person that empathetically loves too much, knowing the struggle all too well attempting to aid and help others free themselves from self inflicted suffering or perpetuating it whether asking for it or not...

I suppose that makes me rude as well

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness
I would question first your bold negative "a large brother that is living in the dark". How can you inspire with shadow boxing? You know that enlightenment will (like a spotlight) obliterate your shadow/dark existence. I realize you have given up conceptually spiritually; why? What is your point of purpose as are not progressing or adding to the positive growth to/of this system; you are in fact attempting a negative coup (destructive) to the paradigm. Study, make your apologies but I know what you are, a cheap apologist; a dangerous destructive element inserted into a system that is attempting to remain hidden in a positive stasis growth pattern to destroy it.

a reply to: vethumanbeing
big brother darkness is actually just a combination of big brother and brother darkness with brother in the middle as a bridge big brother of course as hommage to ATS being concidered a conspiracy site when everyone with real interest researches their hearts out... and brother darkness for Rick James' nickname of Freddie Murphy... after popping him out of no where like a zen master with a hossu stick that left a literal lasting impression on him... comedy gold on the show and of course zendos everywhere.

Black and white as you mention are simply extremes of each other, the polarities mentioned in te last post but there is no balance. If we take the daoist yin and yang, we have the maculine logic and the feminine ration two extremes that should balance each other... but in the kundalini system this is not accomplished as two separate individuals but come together as one in a balance or harmony for ration. logic and emotion in balance, the two polarities or extremes in armony in perfect balance for reason without subjectivity or being subject to illusions from the conceptual, or in union with the absolute nature yabyum in equanimity.

If one takes the two extremes of black and white where people are either extremist in ideas of purity or darkness impurity, and know that the dao means to be in motion or fuild like water and spin the yin and yang the black and white extremes dissapear into gray. Meaning in balance as one without extremes... daoist and buddhists basically got along ok and formed chan which is chinese meaning mind. when it moved into japan it became zen but basically the same thing... mind training to free oneself from the chains of conditioning or causality from arising... making the mind it self free and beyond all condition.

Consciousness lain bare without any mental attachment at all, the eye sees but does not label what it sees, the ear hears but does not move to identify based on past experience... the other senses simliar, meaning all the conscious programming one has done to themselves or learned by others as good bad positive or negative black or white fall entirely away... and whats left just pure unadulterated sensing and percieving moment to moment to moment as it arises and acts accordingly to the situation, whether others do or not is not ones concern... however, all beings so mired in their personal attachments and judgments that make all their experience unique to them with an ego, is the very thing that brings them suffering pain and loss... that ends in old age and death, being so chained. When experience is variable and one builds an ego out of all these various fragments of experience they miss each experience as its own entire universe of experience... for just a tiny sliver and say done... self conditioned and basically doomed by these limited attachments and aversions that are illusions and concepts tat they delude themselves and others with... in a self and other affirmation process that doesnt make it any more real.

Of course, such a thing as I speak of can be comprehended, one can study and find what I speak of, people can philosophize about it, preach and perch on it... but it cant be attained in such a manner, but all of that helps in some way until enough is enough dwelling in mental concepts and contructs and thoughts tossed about like in a boat in a hurricane from one extreme to another lost at sea and forgetting in the calm waters hurricanes still exist to be tossed about yet again helpless. So when we find balance away from such extremes we are no different than the boat the hurricane the calmness or the entire ocean itself and wherein such a thing? How could anyone be lost...

Raw experience with no definition, but one is there if it arises... if I came to this thread an no reply? This post wouldnt exist, wouldnt need too... conditions called for it, so here it is.

Please be aware assumptions are usually false... im simply a husk that spirit flows through, when this husk is shed what is there to miss? Its already empty.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I apologize even for things I havent even been a part of, its called humility, empathy, understanding, compassion born of wisdom in the nature of suffering something we all do no matter any distinction made across the board in humanity... and Im the dangerous destructive element?

I suppose if disparity, segregation by division after divsion, bodies piled high for senseless acts of wanton unapologetics in the name of control and domination over a bunch of fake plastic material nonsense poisioning the entire worlds oceans, stripping resources... so some douchbags can say look at me im special for my obscene trying to hard to impress be some elite, alpha, sheep nonsense while millions of people suffer every day over that very life style of greed, due to famine, war, destruction, and senseless hate and violence... thats justifiable? No thats sociopathology... and theres no social programs or socialism in such an extremist ideology.

I dont apologize for those whove made and perpetuate war, nor do I apologize for those that continue to spread hate and fear in order to keep the most unsustainable lifestyle graspings for not only the US but the whole entire world and its ecosystem functioning... for something as fleeting as 50 to 80 years you show ones ass to the world, instead of be a part of it. At my age a year seems 3 months and it only seems to increase such a down turn the older one gets... unless theres of course dimensia or some sort, where the person has no idea when and where time is, some are still fighting wars over 45 years in the past... make it about religion... 1000s of years in the past.

The children and the future do not deserve it, we did not deserve it our fore fathers did not deserve it... so continuing to perpetuate it? Yeah if we are to stop such senseless stupidity? The wisest are the first to apologize.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: vethumanbeing

BigBrotherDarkness: I apologize even for things I havent even been a part of, its called humility, empathy, understanding, compassion born of wisdom in the nature of suffering something we all do no matter any distinction made across the board in humanity... and Im the dangerous destructive element?

Why take on as an apologist; the weight of the world? You are one person (not tasked for this) Jesus was the one (self?) chosen to do such a thing.

BBD: I suppose if disparity, segregation by division after divsion, bodies piled high for senseless acts of wanton unapologetics in the name of control and domination over a bunch of fake plastic material nonsense poisioning the entire worlds oceans, stripping resources... so some douchbags can say look at me im special for my obscene trying to hard to impress be some elite, alpha, sheep nonsense while millions of people suffer every day over that very life style of greed, due to famine, war, destruction, and senseless hate and violence... thats justifiable? No thats sociopathology... and theres no social programs or socialism in such an extremist ideology.

It is all allowed to happen (otherwise would not); our creator is curious.

BBD: I dont apologize for those whove made and perpetuate war, nor do I apologize for those that continue to spread hate and fear in order to keep the most unsustainable lifestyle graspings for not only the US but the whole entire world and its ecosystem functioning... for something as fleeting as 50 to 80 years you show ones ass to the world, instead of be a part of it. At my age a year seems 3 months and it only seems to increase such a down turn the older one gets... unless theres of course dimensia or some sort, where the person has no idea when and where time is, some are still fighting wars over 45 years in the past... make it about religion... 1000s of years in the past.

Your year is only 3 months? Mine is one day equals a week. No dementia observed from this vantage point. You spoke about 'silence' (eternal soul). "What we actually are is only pure self-awareness, because self-awareness is the only thing that we experience constantly and in all states, whereas our ego or mind is a confused mixture of pure self-awareness, which alone is real, and various extraneous adjuncts (such as this body in waking or some other body in dream), all of which are unreal, being just illusory appearances projected by our mind. In order to experience our self as we actually are we need to be aware of our self alone, in complete isolation from all such adjuncts, and we can be aware of our self only by focusing our entire attention on our self alone".

BBD: The children and the future do not deserve it, we did not deserve it our fore fathers did not deserve it... so continuing to perpetuate it? Yeah if we are to stop such senseless stupidity? The wisest are the first to apologize.

Neither did we deserve this circumstance; but are here to correct perceived wrongs.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

It appears your belief has prevented you from walking it or extending others a hand, of course I know thats not true Im sure you walk your faith and have helped others... not really different from myself or others. The difference is te labels and consistency... so why keep labels people draw lines against on hearing or stick to a belief that isnt all inclusive? No matter what way one goes or comes from if the destination is the same? Why should all of tem argu on how to get there with eachother? The roads names and signs like dogmatic terms will be different, the culture local to them are different yet similar but the destination the same.

Which I ask you is more freeing and happy for the travelers?

I had a conversation with my son on this subject yesterday, and there is much to be pondered on this.

I often end up seeing two different possible perspectives, which I can't help but consider a "masculine" or "feminine" approach - not so much in terms of "women or men feel this way", but more like I can look at it through my own masculine or feminine sides. My own Yin or Yang.

The Yang side objectifies everything and everyone (including myself). From that eye (I) what matters is what you do. Your actual action and behaviors, and your physical impact upon the world and others. That "self" or identity can be completely determined according to what I have done so far, in a very concrete way that can be observed by others.
This side of me struggles a bit though, with the consequence of being somewhat held to that observation by others - what others reflect back to me cannot be discounted. If the majority of people around me characterize me in a certain way, I am forced to acknowledge it is who I am in this sense. (maybe not all of who I am, but the more people see it, the larger a part of me it is).

In other words, if 85% of the people around me say I am a cold heartless bitch, then I must embrace that as a true description of who I am, for it is the impact and influence I have upon others. Doesn't matter if I actually feel great love inside for everyone, if I am not expressing that in actions others can recieve and comprehend that way.

The Yin side is just the opposite - I am that which I feel and think. The internal world. Perhaps because I am female, I tend to see this side as predecessor. That which gives birth to the Yang/object self others observe.
This side is full of ambiguities! This side holds opposing feelings, and thoughts which determine which ones shall be enacted. This part is not all conscious - it is like a deep lake, which has shallow beaches I can analyze at any moment, but also depths that take more effort to dive into and observe. Even the life in those depths are choosing acts for the object/self.

The thing is, even when, to use your example of the jealous feelings and the non-jealous actions for the neighbor, the actions were STILL a result or product of your thoughts! Because your thoughts upon value and meaning chose those actions.

This is why I personally have a huge interest in philosophy of morals. It seems to me that my thoughts about morality and ethic are the boundry line and organizing influence between the "object me" and the "subject me", or the Yang and the Yin.

They each regard these deliberations differently - the yang object is mostly concerned about how others shall see me and what my acts will say I am. The Yin is more concerned about the us as a whole, what shall my behaviors have as consequence for others and in the larger scheme of things?

They both argue sometimes and feel easily threatened by each other. I most identify with this voice writing now, which actually doesn't care a lot either way, I'm just observing and enjoying the ride no matter what, and juggling these two in each moment. I'm choosing ethics and morals in each moment, trying to find the best confluence for them both. Not always making it. I wiggle and wobble on that tightrope.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Dark Ghost

It is indeed a superstition to judge others or even oneself according to what they believe or think. One could have the most perverse and violent thoughts without ever acting on them, and he is no more evil than the one who has the best and most positive thoughts.

There is another problem though-
One, if you know what a person thinks or believe,
then it is because they have expressed it somehow.
They have written or spoken it outwardly. (action!)

They may talk of murder, but if they do not do murder, they cannot be judged according to those thoughts, your positions says (if I have comprehended correctly?)

But

These thoughts influence and impact others around them.

Charlie Manson never actually killed anyone.

This comes into play in the example of politicians. It is important in our intimate relations, in which people very close will feel and act out each others emotions and thoughts even when they are not verbalized.
You see this in couples, and between parent and children - one thinks and feels, and the other acts out for them.

On one hand, the object can argue - still doesn't matter. The thinker-feeler holds no responsibility for the actor. We are each responsible for self containment and discipline, no matter what we are being influenced and injected by our environment and others.

But the subject argues - this is not totally fair when we consider that there are people who are not capable of containing and disciplining all emotions and beliefs. Children, for example, people lacking in mental development, education, or experience....these are all a part of our environment and community. It is in our own interest also, to be careful of what we think and feel, because even if we don't act it out, we shall cause someone else to.

a reply to: Bluesma

When you look out of a window and see people animals etc what speaks? Its concepts not ones own but learned. So wen not looking out of an actual window but the windows of the eyes... the same thing. So its te conceptual or illusion judging the conceptual or illusion trying to come towards some resolution. But attached to form it seems varied and changing and not oneself. So of course to form groups etc the two affirm each other or deny each other... but beyond such arising of concepts and not attached to form how could the two be any different?

It is simply a mirror of one or the other when such judgments are being made from concepts or distinctions of the illusion and being attached to such.

Realtive reality and absolute reality, the absolute reality knows no distinctions as being one self or one whole or one spirit or seeing with the same nonjudmental eye in peace and equanimity, the relative is the subjective or the veil the spirit, or true self gets lost in concepts and has forgotten. But it is always there and always present but due to day to day life living in mental concepts outside of absolute reality... it gets dust on the true reflection that is the self.

Labels one attaces to or uses is the dust and not the actual reflection of the absolute.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I'm sorry. I don't understand a word of that.

We would have to come to some mutual conceptualisations first, to communicate.
I do not know what an "absolute" reality is.
Nor a "true" self.

I can only describe the experience of now. I cannot proclaim that experience is "absolute". ?

I have no belief in an absolute reality to refer to in receiving your post there.

a reply to: Bluesma

Sorry for the conceptual... with words its impossible to anything but express the conceptual, otherwise its just knowing and at that point its enough said to enjoy a relaxing silence. The same goes for the individual mind when no one is around, it is typically full of conceptual chatter. When more people are around the effect of concepts is compounded... it is only lessened by understanding concepts mutal through communication... like youve asked.

The window was a metaphor for the house or body one lives in with its doors of perception that form a self through fragments of experience and stores them in the rooms and closets until over flowing, yet the things we grasp and store in that house is not complete as a real experience, just a very small part of it... the more experience one has of a particular experience, the wiser to that experience one is said to be, like first day on the job as a sailor vs. 15 years on the job as a sailor. People attached to all these varying fragments is what consitues a self, and in total will argue that all of those concepts are the full experience of being. while that may be true to them... it is not the whole truth of experience.

So when we get attached to these concepts as a self and call them complete we can get pretty well deluded to reality and call it truth when its far from it, even if we agree in group tere is a disagreement due to such ego graspings. In all of that where has the ability to have pure raw unadulterated experience gone? Other than to be limited and conditioned by past experience?

Wiping all of those empty concepts away clears the rooms of needless clutter out of the mind, frees one from burdens and causes less suffering form themselves and others, as hate and greed are less likely to be perpetuated understanding the equanimity that arises from a non judging state, into one of understanding and empathy having been stuck in the same routines or patterns that limit and control, instead of inspire and grow. Of course unfortunately, not everyone is free from such hate or greed systems so in wisdom of understanding we do the best we can to try and can such systems, so te world becomes a much happier, healthier, and freer place less dangerous for those that come after us or those we leave behind.

In esscence, when someone thinks of yourself as just a fragment of all you are or can be due to limited experience as a "cold hearted bitch" then you obviously know there are more sides to yourself than that limited view... yet due to past experience, and not so ego driven you can ration perhaps ive been cold due to this this or that, and then agree... but in all honesty neither is a true statement. Like racists arent racists thinking racist thoughts 24/7 they sometimes eat, sleep or poop meaning that isnt really themselves its a concept theyve learned and have chosen to focus on.

Now if they maintain that that view of you wen you know it isnt a permanent thing then that will bring you no lasting happiness around such people, the same could be said if you start thinking the same about yourself leading into depression. So what is the real issue itself? The very concepts that are conditioned and that we condition ourselves or others with that bring no good or peace to ourselves or others and perpetuate them instead of resolving them. Which a world full of such occuring? Understanding is the best weve got going, and of course sharing concepts is thhe way we do such, but they are dual natured and can be used for good intents and purposes or bad intents and purposes.

But ultimately none of those concepts are reality as concepts must be learned and as subjects to aid our form then they can be benficial, if they dont aid our form then they can be detrimental and thats where discrening what the intent is becomes very important, unfortunately people can hide or lie about intent... for various reasons, while such reasons may appear logical or rational and a benfit to the individual... they are egotistical as thats typically te only person such behavoir benefits. When carried out in groups? much more a difficult thing to tackle for society.

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

where has the ability to have pure raw unadulterated experience gone?

I suspect it has drowned in a sea of words,
or
a house filled by a hoarder.



I am married to a hoarder. I keep us from suffocating by going through it periodically and throwing out what is not useful.
I don't feel a need to get rid of all objects, but I like moderation.

i just described the experience that others can actually witness- the "me" and my husband as two separate objects in a relation. Other people can witness this state of affairs.

On the other hand, it also describes perfectly the interior experience no other person can bear witness to.
It is exactly the dynamic of the Yin and Yang within. Yang likes to collect and possess, Yin catagorizes and drops the unecessary into the depths, dusts and sets out the necessary in the shallows to be expressed.

Which came first? Which is this "absolute" reality?
Does it matter?

a reply to: Bluesma

The beginning doesnt matter, occam would die from cutting exhaustion before ever solving the divsions that can be made by conceptual systems on top of conceptual systems... the absolute of course sees beyond those conceptual systems, and becomes resolute and firm rooted in the very nature of humanity itself not separated from it as an individual or group.

Compassion with such knowledge of course, says live and let live just try not to harm anyone else and we kinda find ourselves right where we are already. Dispassion with such knowledge is the other extreme old testament god type business floods killing and completely pissed off that humanity cant get along.

The new testment? Forgive the ignorant bastards cause they know not what they do... but dad damn it they try.

Knowing people try of course means theres hope, and it also means no one is ever alone in their struggles no matter how remote or unique they may seem...

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I'm sorry, there's too much difference in our collective influences for effective exchange!
I am not part of a religious belief system-grouping, so am not able to capture the references to biblical stuff.
They seem to carry meaning and inference for you, which I am not aware of.
So I don't capture the thought you are trying to communicate.

But maybe you know I would like to and that I am trying...?

a reply to: Bluesma

Hey its a subject, I grew up subjected to the bibical stuff. As I got older and out from that paranoid parental authority, I look at all of it objectively as a subject... I dont avoid it as thats kinda an extreme, as many many people do run on and are geared towards belief of the conceptual and have faith in its various theories not yet proven fact... its cute like little kids running around in towels playing super heros. Unfortunately they break vases and tear up the house if left unchecked... as history has shown time and time again... metaphorical analaogies of course because the bombs and wars of the various conceptual ideologies rarely does anything other than divide people and keep such a thing in motion as perpetual... for peace at some point someone has to say take off the cape but keep the wonder...

Thats all I kinda do these days, and I speak from and to various systems from taking them as a subject... not as a reality. When most of it is belief or limited experience? Might as well have a fancy jacket that straps up in the back and a padded cell for all that banging ones head against the wall demanding it is real... or an impatient in patient, better to dwell in known facts IMHO but have an idea of peoples make believe, for better understanding so their drives and motives and what is going to sling them into fits over their chosen weeeeee! thats not fun or beneficial for every one.

posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: vethumanbeing

BBD: It appears your belief has prevented you from walking it or extending others a hand, of course I know thats not true Im sure you walk your faith and have helped others... not really different from myself or others.

I do not have a 'belief system' as that is dependent upon others collective dogmatic barks/roars/slavering biting or demands one to be prostrate on ones knees in order to fully subjugate myself (acknowledge) that a higher influence of others in power control me.

BBD: The difference is the labels and consistency... so why keep labels people draw lines against on hearing or stick to a belief that isnt all inclusive? No matter what way one goes or comes from if the destination is the same? Why should all of them argur on how to get there with each other?

I am a Gnostic of no faith at all; just one in knowing; but see that some faith belief systems do help others as provides 'hope' or structure to their circumstance. Religious belief systems (differing) exist to polarize sections of society/culture. Polarization is never a good thing as divides.

BBD: The roads names and signs like dogmatic terms will be different, the culture local to them are different yet similar but the destination the same. Which I ask you is more freeing and happy for the travelers?

Once out of this false physical body you may be shown road signs, "exit ramps" (as if on an expressway). Which one will you take that expresses your mind soul body experience on this Earth to help you in your progression? Will it be the physical sciences, religion, the arts, metaphysics? You will be with other souls that have a likewise/similar outlook. You become a traveler in the afterlife (finally REAL); you choose your destination; what exit ramp appeals to you most (not the word hoarder exit ramp).

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Bluesma

Hey its a subject, I grew up subjected to the bibical stuff. As I got older and out from that paranoid parental authority, I look at all of it objectively as a subject... I dont avoid it as thats kinda an extreme, as many many people do run on and are geared towards belief of the conceptual and have faith in its various theories not yet proven fact...

I didn't mean anythign about whether or not the Bible is real, factual, or whatever....
I just meant I am a bit ignorant about the references and meanings that are popular. People refer often to biblical stories, even in a totally metaphorical way to illustrate ideas. I have used the term "prodigal son" before because someone described to me the story in the Bible of the Prodigal son.

My stepfather has always said everyone should read the Bible- (even though he was a psychoanalyst and philosopher and atheist) simply because it is such a big part of our culture and history in the west, it is important to be aware of it.
Unfortunately he came into my life a little late, after my real parents had tried to protect me from brain washing by not allowing me to be exposed to religion.

Knowledge of this cultural heritage can be helpful and it provides a lot of vehicles for ideas, or communication short cuts!

Anyway, that's all I meant, I don't totally get all that you meant with those particular references. Better I just admit that than to take random guesses and perhaps be way off. (though I have been known to do that before too....)