Is human sexuality actually slavery?

originally posted by: crowdedskies

originally posted by: Profusion

Why do most people consider slavery to sexuality to be a thing we should all be proud to have to endure? Not to mention a thing we should gleefully endure? And, it's weird not to want to endure it?

Endure it ?? Wow, this is a bit of a drastic point of view.

It is certainly not a case of "close you eyes and think of England for me". Perhaps it is the latin in me. Surely , sexuality is all part of our experience and also something to be enjoyed as well as other great things in nature. Do I detect a bit of british stiff upper lip here ?

I don't mean to often but I don't regard sex as something to "endure". Rather , it is something to enjoy just like many other things in life.

Talking about slavery, I am a slave to chocolates though.

My nationality isn't relevant to this discussion. In this post I will be using the following definition of sexuality:

sexuality

the sexual habits and desires of a person
www.merriam-webster.com...

Sexuality has ruined more lives than probably anything else. Consider all the ways it can ruin people's lives:

1. Unwanted pregnancies

2. Having children too early in life

3. Crimes of passion...consider how many people ended up in prison because they couldn't control their sexuality.

4. People being killed for their sexuality

TORONTO - A Muslim lesbian couple who claim they will be killed if deported to their native Israel due to their sexuality is being given a second chance to remain in Canada.

Iman Musa and Majida Mugrabi, of Toronto, arrived in Canada from Tel Aviv in 2007 and filed unsuccessful refugee claims that were appealed to the Federal Court of Canada.

Judge Roger Hughes on March 8 granted the couple another hearing by an Immigration and Refugee Board based on new information that shows one of Mugrabi’s cousin confessed to the “honour killing” of his sister 12-years ago.
Muslim lesbian couple fight deportation

5. Wasted time thinking about sex when one could be focused on far more productive things.

6. Being shunned by society due to your sexuality (in a different way than #4)

I tried to explore the issue here:

Do gorgeous women have it easier or harder than the rest of us?

7. Being forced to go through the awkwardness of puberty

8. Feeling alienated due to feelings of sexual inadequacy (which can start right after puberty and last for the rest of one's life)

9. Being driven to cheat on a significant other due to one's sexuality

10. Money and time wasted on being transgender (there's no point to being transgender without sexuality IMHO)

11. Families broken up because of #9

12. Relationships broken up because of #9

13. Serious diseases caught because of one's sexuality

14. Sexual addiction

15. Pornography addiction

16. People being ostracized or shunned for their sexuality (obviously a more subtle thing than #4 but similar)

17. The pain that can come from unwanted abortions/giving children up for adoption when someone doesn't want to can be horrible

I'm sure there's more to it than the above. Your argument seems to be that it feels good (in your opinion) so it's not something to endure. I would argue that lots of things that feel good are ultimately destructive and sexuality is no different.

I see no difference between sexuality and most destructive afflictions that one can endure. I'm sure you'll argue that sexuality isn't destructive but you won't be able to win that case based on the facts.

Here's something British that I think is relevant here:


www.youtube.com...

It not slavery anymore when if one enjoys being enslaved, dominated, and tortured...It pretty much becomes a Fetish when that line crossed.

Have you been reading Schopenhauer?

He was one of the best known people to put forth the argument that love and sexuality make us foolish and unreasonable, and hinder us in pursuing other goals in life, ultimately denying us true or lasting happiness. He also said nature and impulse drives us to choose mates that are, in terms of personality and compatibility, totally mismatched. He points to the fact that almost all couples, should they stay in each other's presence long enough, become estranged and insufferable to one another. He also believed that marriage, as an institution, was horribly oppressive and stifling to both parties, man and wife.

There is a case to be made here, but your OP did not really try hard enough to establish good arguments.

originally posted by: Specimen
It not slavery anymore when if one enjoys being enslaved, dominated, and tortured...It pretty much becomes a Fetish when that line crossed.

You are speaking of free people that have a choice to play with or explore this behavior. What about the others enslaved within it (sex trades) or those suffering a religious belief system gone mad with no choice (this describes 3rd world countries).

a reply to: cooperton

Some are slaves to their urges, others have conquered them. You are either consumed by the beast, or you tame the beast.

After taming the beast its ok once in a while to let the beast roam free. Otherwise life would be mundane and uneventful

a reply to: LittleByLittle

The strangeness that Hindus can understand Karma on an extreme level and then totally ignore the understanding and create caste system

who knows...maybe the idea of reaping karma that you sow, payment of karma is another false belief like "sinning". Maybe "karma" is an invention of the "gods" to give you hope that some reward will manifest in the afterlife, while they suck off your energies on these lower planes. Keeps the serfs from storming the gates!

Why someone would choose to see the whole of sexual as slavery is beyond my comprehension. That would appear to be a very limiting view on something that can potentially provide quite the opposite of slavery... liberation.

You can warp many things into a view of slavery, but if you do this as an end, and not a means to an end, then this is err. Is the flesh something to be ridden of? Is that the way to liberation? If so, many many things will be seen in a negative light. That's not wise in my book. I think moderation and perspective are key, which it seems you are lacking in.

a reply to: Profusion

The drive to procreate when overly aroused actually inhibits intellectual reasoning. Evolution kept sexual urges safe guarded from it. I'm sure many women have said "I'm never having sex again!" after giving birth. Shuts the brain down for awhile.

a reply to: Profusion

Why do most people consider slavery to sexuality to be a thing we should all be proud to have to endure? Not to mention a thing we should gleefully endure? And, it's weird not to want to endure it?

Because if on some level they cannot tame their desires they fear the person who can overcome their own sexual desires. Remember the drive to sexuality is akin the drive to reproduce; there is a strong evolutionary/biological imperative.

a reply to: Profusion

Sexuality has ruined more lives than probably anything else

Come now you exaggerate, you forget alcohol, tobacco, wars, drugs, depression; I could go on

I perceive this as misplacing responsibility.

originally posted by: Profusion
Sexuality has ruined more lives than probably anything else. Consider all the ways it can ruin people's lives:

1. Unwanted pregnancies

That isn't because of sexuality, any more than murder is because knives and guns and arsenic exist. It's because of poor planning, poor education on the subject, inaccessibility to necessary tools OR information (there is a cycle of fertility; anal and oral sex and other variants don't lead to pregnancy); poor upbringing (lack of discipline / maturity / responsibility) and more.

Underlying all that, it is probably due to the cultural problem of artificially extending adulthood. People are breeding (and evolution wins most battles) at 13. Sooner with hormones in their food. If people haven't been given what they need on several levels by then, or especially by age 16 never mind later, they're probably doomed. But that wasn't the mere existence of sexuality. It's the dysfunctional environment of culture and individuals we bring it into.

2. Having children too early in life

Humans are supposed to have children early in life, that's why we're fertile young. Fertility decreases and health risks increase as women get older and I don't mean old. A friend's husband is a leading fertility doctor and I hear it's a big shock, after culturally telling women to just wait to have children until they've had school and established a career and have some money -- and then it doesn't happen. And every smallest health issue matters to that and in our culture and food/tox environment those are added to daily. Then they're aghast that what likely would have happened immediately when they were young isn't happening at all at age 27 or 32 (depending on not always visible, underlying health). And all those little things on health matter to the fetus and future generations also.

It's too early at 16 or 18 because you're not allowed to be an adult then. Men could go to sea and became commanders by then or before in old days, women could have four children plus be responsible for most of a farm. We not only keep people children but our society has no place for them if they get with child once they become fertile unless they a) qualify as 'adult' and b) marry someone with money. Which is rare.

Anyway, but the only important point is that bad decisions made from lack of planning, lack of responsibility, and usually lack of education -- because truly having these things driven home in a responsible person makes for 'just in case' planning -- may indirectly be part of the larger sphere of sexuality but they are not sexuality itself, they are cultural and personal issues, and if you applied those same "errors in judgment" to people's checking accounts -- some people do -- the results wouldn't go well either.

3. Crimes of passion...consider how many people ended up in prison because they couldn't control their sexuality.

I assume you are speaking of someone who felt unable to keep from leaping upon someone and raping them. Jealous murder is a crime of passion but that isn't about sexuality, it's merely that sexuality is one of several elements of perceived territorial ownership in a relationship. Assault-rape is a violent crime which really cannot be separated from issues of violence and power. I don't see this as about controlling your sexuality except in the way that going postal would be about controlling your temper. There is far more involved than one can blame sexuality for.

4. People being killed for their sexuality [quote]A Muslim lesbian couple who claim they will be killed if deported[/quote]

Bad religion is bad religion. That isn't about sexuality. That's about levying barbaric evil upon an entire culture in the name of god.

5. Wasted time thinking about sex when one could be focused on far more productive things.

Daydreams exist as our body telling us what energies it is holding and what energies it is drawn to. If you're hungry, you'll daydream about eating. If you're insecure, you'll daydream about having power and conquering someone. If you want sex, you'll daydream about that. It's not sexuality's fault if one can't get laid and spends their time mooning over it instead (welcome to earth, for most people, sadly). I agree it's common and there's likely more constructive mental pursuits. Especially if you haven't got it available so you really need to focus on something else.

6. Being shunned by society due to your sexuality (in a different way than #4)

Yeah that sucks but it isn't just about sexuality, that is a tribalism thing all cultures will have some version of and it applies to things that are not sexual as well.

7. Being forced to go through the awkwardness of puberty

This is a hormonal purgatory that deserves more blame than 'sexuality' which is merely one of the awkward areas.

8. Feeling alienated due to feelings of sexual inadequacy (which can start right after puberty and last for the rest of one's life)

This is a cultural and psychological issue. Sexuality doesn't cause this. Plenty of people are sexual without this.

9. Being driven to cheat on a significant other due to one's sexuality

I think sexuality doesn't cause that, it's the excuse for that is all. A man doesn't sleep with the new secretary unless his feelings for his wife have reduced to the point that they matter less to him than brief pleasure with someone he doesn't even care about. (Some men are dysfunctionally developed in a way it never does.)

The whole concept of "driven to cheat" is like the "driven to be sexual in a way that gets you imprisoned" -- it's a huge intellectual and ethical cop-out where grown men with the maturity of six year olds make lame excuses for being pathetic. Through my life I've seen innumerable good men, of quality character, who are only offended at the weasels making their gender look bad with this kind of stuff. Men are incredibly sexual beings birth to death if they're healthy, privately in regards to pretty much every woman whether appropriate or not, but that doesn't make them children, cretins, criminals or idiots.

continued

a reply to: Profusion

10. Money and time wasted on being transgender (there's no point to being transgender without sexuality IMHO)

Nobody has any idea what causes gender dysmorphia (and there are likely multiple causes) but it is about the perceived self not about sexuality -- there is no predictability about the sexual preference, or "sexuality" (drive) resulting. In many cases sexuality actually is avoided entirely. Just because gender is associated with sex does not make that a sexuality problem.

11. Families broken up because of #9
12. Relationships broken up because of #9

13. Serious diseases caught because of one's sexuality

Add idiocy to the list. You can catch serious diseases because of one's drug habit too.

14. Sexual addiction
15. Pornography addiction

Brain problem not a sexuality problem -- sex is the symptom. Visit youtube for TED talks they actually have quite a few, though I've only seen a few, on these topics.

16. People being ostracized or shunned for their sexuality (obviously a more subtle thing than #4 but similar)

Tribalism is not about sexuality which is only one of the things is encompasses.

17. The pain that can come from unwanted abortions/giving children up for adoption when someone doesn't want to can be horrible

All points on unwanted pregnancy apply here.

RC

For those who enjoy sexuality, it is not submission but pleasure.

It's only slavery for those who do not wish to experience it but still do.

originally posted by: Profusion

Sexuality has ruined more lives than probably anything else. Consider all the ways it can ruin people's lives:

1. Unwanted pregnancies

2. Having children too early in life

3. Crimes of passion...consider how many people ended up in prison because they couldn't control their sexuality.

4. People being killed for their sexuality

Oh come on ! you are going too far

What about diseases, greed (biggest cause behind ruined lives - I keep reading about people who lose money to criminals); war (did you forget about this ?) plus all other horrifying things in life.

Luckily sex provides a wonderful refuge from the vile world. As I said before , it is the lack of sex that is behind all the evil on the planet. If people had more sex they would be content and happy with their lot.

By the way, I have identified the two greatest killers. They are HMRC and red traffic lights.

HMRC - (UK tax authorities)
Red traffic lights - Whether on a bus, in a car or on a train, the frustration tightens you heart and and shortns your life.

a reply to: Profusion

I think that you are really confusing the sexual act with perversion.

The sexual act is sacred. the ultimate goal is to lose the separateness and be at one with the other person. If you love someone and have strong loving feelings towards them , sex is the best way of getting under their skin and bonding.

Even if it is casual love, sex is still food for the soul . Just like the body needs food .

I would never underestimate the magical power of sex .

we live in a culture obsessed with sex yet think sex is shameful at the same time.

the hypocracy astounds me

Is human sexuality actually slavery?

I think it is. My hormones destroyed my life many times over.

When I reflect on my behavior then, I am ashamed and disgusted that I surrendered to such stupidity.

I've wished most of my life that I were Vulcan.

Well, going by that definition breathing is slavery too.

I'm not particularly impressed by this line of reasoning.

However, from a metaphysical perspective, Samael Aun Weor would indeed say that yes, in a certain sense mundane human sexuality is slavery; sexual yoga would be the key to freedom, i.e. enlightenment.