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originally posted by: neoholographic
The Case Against Reality A professor of cognitive science argues against it
the historical buddha said there is but one taste of all of experience and it is like salt... meaning there is really no difference in the object in reality other than the conditioning of subjectivity in which we create a differentation giving it a personal quality through ego, instead of what it actually is... and in doing so that is just a delusional self supporting construct of bias or duality. objectively, you and your brother have a mother and thats the reality beyond that is just subjective distinctions to be made, like what encompasses being a mother... etc etc and how each is going to have a distinct reality yet a common percetion as to what is accepted in a shared experience or disagreement as to what that subject is or isnt.
originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: neoholographic
You are misinterpreting the view presented by Hoffman.
Nowhere does he claim that there is no objective reality. His point is that your view of reality will depend on your sensors and what input they are optimized for. Your view/perception is subjective, not the reality.
originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
But if you continue that thought....how can you define what objective reality is?
originally posted by: Baddogma
First off, love your threads, NeoHolo... meaning I love the subject, too!
Well, we most definitely all are experiencing a "simulation" of our environment filtered through imperfect biological/cognitive filters... there is a truth there...
for example, our feet, due to gravity, experience a different time than our heads do, being usually further away from the gravity well... and all our senses are approximations of a small portion of the information flying out around us and we're waves moving through a stormy sea of bigger waves... but the "waves" might not truly exist, either!
There is another lecture on Youtube given at Google headquarters where the mathematician proves that either there is NO actual universe we are in, or there are many of them.. .so multiverse or no-verse, no in-between.
If no-verse, then that would fit the simulation option as it's all consciousness .. .doesn't make it less "real" for anyone freaking out there... just means that what we agree to as reality is different than we commonly think.
A rock can still smack you ... but, rather than meaning it was/is a hard rocky rock, it just means that you convinced you (or your consciousness) well enough to crush your imaginary skull... heh.
Maybe, anyway.. but veeeery likely.
SO row, row, row that boat....
Hoffman: I call it conscious realism: Objective reality is just conscious agents, just points of view. Interestingly, I can take two conscious agents and have them interact, and the mathematical structure of that interaction also satisfies the definition of a conscious agent. This mathematics is telling me something. I can take two minds, and they can generate a new, unified single mind. Here’s a concrete example. We have two hemispheres in our brain. But when you do a split-brain operation, a complete transection of the corpus callosum, you get clear evidence of two separate consciousnesses. Before that slicing happened, it seemed there was a single unified consciousness. So it’s not implausible that there is a single conscious agent. And yet it’s also the case that there are two conscious agents there, and you can see that when they’re split. I didn’t expect that, the mathematics forced me to recognize this. It suggests that I can take separate observers, put them together and create new observers, and keep doing this ad infinitum. It’s conscious agents all the way down.
Hoffman: The idea that what we’re doing is measuring publicly accessible objects, the idea that objectivity results from the fact that you and I can measure the same object in the exact same situation and get the same results — it’s very clear from quantum mechanics that that idea has to go. Physics tells us that there are no public physical objects. So what’s going on? Here’s how I think about it. I can talk to you about my headache and believe that I am communicating effectively with you, because you’ve had your own headaches. The same thing is true as apples and the moon and the sun and the universe. Just like you have your own headache, you have your own moon. But I assume it’s relevantly similar to mine. That’s an assumption that could be false, but that’s the source of my communication, and that’s the best we can do in terms of public physical objects and objective science.
Hoffman: I think it has been. Not only are they ignoring the progress in fundamental physics, they are often explicit about it. They’ll say openly that quantum physics is not relevant to the aspects of brain function that are causally involved in consciousness. They are certain that it’s got to be classical properties of neural activity, which exist independent of any observers—spiking rates, connection strengths at synapses, perhaps dynamical properties as well. These are all very classical notions under Newtonian physics, where time is absolute and objects exist absolutely. And then [neuroscientists] are mystified as to why they don’t make progress. They don’t avail themselves of the incredible insights and breakthroughs that physics has made. Those insights are out there for us to use, and yet my field says, “We’ll stick with Newton, thank you. We’ll stay 300 years behind in our physics.”
“The reality we can put into words is never reality itself.”
― Werner Heisenberg
He says everyone is having the 1st person experience and there's no reality outside of experience itself.
But why does that mean that reality is vastly different than our perception? Why not like a torrented compressed movie versus the Bluray quality version. You could never totally recreate the Bluray from the ripped version, but that doesn't mean it doesn't closely approximate the movie. There's no reason why an internal reality would vastly depart from external reality, sure there could be compression quirks that pop up, there's a lot of loss on wavelengths, etc, but I just don't see why that means nothing exists the way we think it does.