Worker Bees & Soldier Ants: America's Fascist Army

Originally posted by centurion1211
But you, in your infinite wisdom, have been able to determine that everything on Rense that trashes the U.S. and/or Bush and which therefore furthers your personal agenda is absolutely factual, beyond a smidgin of doubt.

You fail to acknowledge my disclaimer. Not at all surprising.

Originally posted by drfunk
I thought what was great about America is that everyone is alllowed to have their own point of view without fear of persecution? yet we find ourselves surrounded by these ex-US military grunts who somehow feel every fight America makes is a fight of righteouness, of good vs evil and we even receive threats from them because of our opposing views. Ever heard of Vietnam? what did we learn from Vietnam? what, you can't remember? neither can Bush, Cheney,the neo-cons or those who have blindly put their faith towards them.


thanks,
drfunk

Keep Viet Nam out of this one, I doubt you even was born then!
We learned from Viet Nam that the liberals called the troops baby killers, spit on their uniform, and came out to tell the world Hell no we won't go. French in that time left us holding the bag, and Johnson was an A***hole. Many of our men have been effect with agent oragne and their health is slowly going, in the newspaper printed things that slapped the men fighting right in the f**** face. Did you see a F**** welcome home, or turn your F**** head because they were labeled killers and no thanks to Jane Fonda for her role during that time was outright F*** communist acts. What did you F*** learn in your history books that can not replace the F*** experience of being there! Back off!
DAV member.................Veterans for a better tomorrow and helping those who serve with honor. We are still healing from those who mock and drag an era from the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[edit on 23-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

[edit on 23-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by centurion1211
But you, in your infinite wisdom, have been able to determine that everything on Rense that trashes the U.S. and/or Bush and which therefore furthers your personal agenda is absolutely factual, beyond a smidgin of doubt.

You fail to acknowledge my disclaimer. Not at all surprising.

If you read, I said check your disclaimer!!

Originally posted by ancientsailor
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[edit on 23-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

Did we forget to take our happy pill today?

I think you kind of proved his point with your inflammatory and nearly incomprehensible rant against, I'm not exactly sure who.

I mean, if we're passing blame for vet treatment, let's not forget polite society who casually used, and then dismissed the Vietnam vets who no longer served a purpose, other then to remind those in the god fearing suburbs of our leader's failed international chess move.

But, hey, please feverishly worship the same type of men who dictate another entire generation be sacrificed for the political science experiment of the complicated few.

By sending American troops into Iraq, this administration has put a cheap price tag on those same soldiers' lives. By supporting and not protesting those actions, Red State America has given their tacit approval for the casual, indifferent body count that has followed. You want them in Iraq. I want them home. Who's REALLY looking out for their best interest.

But, it's too late now for that.

The war in Vietnam was hatched by moralists on both sides of the Aisle. Then they all woke up in the realists' world. Thirty years later and we've come no further. The only question is whether or not the moralists will wake up in time to avoid another catastrophe like Vietnam.

Like I said Brim, back off!
Wet behind the ear and do not know how to be a man, nor how to deal with the world only those you think are modle roles who slander America. A young person uses these words to sound intellegent which does not make him a man, nor a woman. Experience is this life you totally do not understand what life really means to people across this world as a whole, just from book, media, and your own salvation that leads to a deadend because you have to follow, not lead. Bridge a gap to different cultures is work, you are afraid of hard work. I am the knowledge you will not understand of men who served and those who serve. You have not one ounce of compassion of those who seek to be at least able to get medical care for their children, not ration, people to dream without fear, and live like a human being in a country you do not understand, nor have the time to about Iraq, or any nation. You think all those countries, everyone of those people there think the same way towards us, you are wrong for you have not ventured there. Good luck on your never ending story.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

[edit on 24-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

Originally posted by ancientsailor
Like I said Dr. watza, back off!

Was that for me, or the other guy?

Such rage, and venom, and hostility! I guess some enjoy living in the past.

By the way ECK:

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
My avatar represents one of the best, most honorable aspects of my life.

You might wanna edit out that line since you changed your avatar.

Originally posted by ancientsailor
Like I said Brim, back off!
Wet behind the ear and do not know how to be a man, nor how to deal with the world only those you think are modle roles who slander America. A young person uses these words to sound intellegent which does not make him a man, nor a woman. Experience is this life you totally do not understand what life really means to people across this world as a whole, just from book, media, and your own salvation that leads to a deadend because you have to follow, not lead. Bridge a gap to different cultures is work, you are afraid of hard work. I am the knowledge you will not understand of men who served and those who serve. You have not one ounce of compassion of those who seek to be at least able to get medical care for their children, not ration, people to dream without fear, and live like a human being in a country you do not understand, nor have the time to about Iraq, or any nation. You think all those countries, everyone of those people there think the same way towards us, you are wrong for you have not ventured there. Good luck on your never ending story.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

[edit on 24-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

I guess it was for me. I couldn't tell before, considering you were addressing someone else. However, as difficult as that part was, trying to make sense of your post was even harder. I've given up trying to comprehend it after several times of reading it. If English was your second language, I'd work with you here. But, I know you're American.

All that I ask, is that you try and make sense for me, so at least I know what I'm disagreeing with. Because, all I know so far is that I'm against your stance on RUN ON sentences and PARAGRAPHS.

Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by ancientsailor
Like I said Brim, back off!
Wet behind the ear and do not know how to be a man, nor how to deal with the world only those you think are modle roles who slander America. A young person uses these words to sound intellegent which does not make him a man, nor a woman. Experience is this life you totally do not understand what life really means to people across this world as a whole, just from book, media, and your own salvation that leads to a deadend because you have to follow, not lead. Bridge a gap to different cultures is work, you are afraid of hard work. I am the knowledge you will not understand of men who served and those who serve. You have not one ounce of compassion of those who seek to be at least able to get medical care for their children, not ration, people to dream without fear, and live like a human being in a country you do not understand, nor have the time to about Iraq, or any nation. You think all those countries, everyone of those people there think the same way towards us, you are wrong for you have not ventured there. Good luck on your never ending story.

[edit on 24-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

[edit on 24-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

I guess it was for me. I couldn't tell before, considering you were addressing someone else. However, as difficult as that part was, trying to make sense of your post was even harder. I've given up trying to comprehend it after several times of reading it. If English was your second language, I'd work with you here. But, I know you're American.

All that I ask, is that you try and make sense for me, so at least I know what I'm disagreeing with. Because, all I know so far is that I'm against your stance on RUN ON sentences and PARAGRAPHS.

Wet behind the ear

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
This is an essay I found sorting through articles - yes - at Rense. Believe it or not, there are some very profound and enlightening pieces on that site.

Only for brain adled morons who can't think for themselves.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that insulting? Perhaps if I had refered to you as a fascist insect then it'd've been okay?

Granted there is also plenty of iffy stuff..

Ah, der, ya think?

You just have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaffe. Read this with an open mind.
Open enough to let your brain fall right out right? Or do only nazi soliders do that?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by ancientsailor
You are basically saying that this article accuses me and my brothers and sisters of the armed forces of immoral status. What do you truely believe without reading the BS?

Guess what? I served, with pride, also. I got out, deprogrammed and realized that as a civilian, it is now my duty to do everything in my power to make sure whatever administration is in power uses our military wisely. The truth of the matter, however bitter a pill for you to swallow, is that the Bush administration has used and abused our men and women in uniform unlike anything we have seen since Vietnam. Corruption sows corruption and corruption spawns abuse. I'm sorry you are incapable of understanding this. My friend, a Vietnam vet, has a saying for folks who blindly and ignorantly support this unGodly regime and its policies: YOUR FLAG AIN'T GONNA GETCHA INTO HEAVEN ANYMORE! You might wanna think about that - that is if you truly give a shyte about those serving our nation. They need the support and oversight of their citizenry now more than ever. Without our demanding accountability from our representatives/leaders, we leave the troops in Iraq hanging in the wind.

What means more to you (everyone), your own personal fears and Xenophobia, or the the TRUTH?

Amen Brother! No one ever seems to notice veteran status among the vocal dissenters to our current Fascist state.

A few points:

- Rense as a source: this site is 95% linked material, 5% original composition. Meaning, they have no input into the content development, and do list disclaimers as such. So, for issues with content, question the orginator. In this case, BellaCiao , which seems to be an American expatriat site based in Italy. Here's another one of their articles by a very notable author:
Support our Troops: Bring them Home

- Too many of you would be given an "F" for reading comprehension: you all jumped into the deep end with both feet , put on the sack cloth garments, and beat your breasts at the "slam" & "indignation" vectored towards our military. The article speak of the nation's people falling prey to group think it has nothing to do or say about our military!!!!

Please , sack cloth wearers, reread:

"Growing daily like a malignant tumor, still entranced by the devastating images of the new Pearl Harbor, which the corporatists in power did nothing to help stop and everything possible for it to succeed, this multitude cannot see in shades of gray nor in the prism of color. Instead, like living inside the television sets of the past, only black and white can they perceive, their antenna only receptive to the microwaves of good and bad, evil and good, friend or foe. Different shades of reality escape them just as much as the reality of what transpires around the world.

This army of fascism is the product of years of methodical ingraining of ignorance and indifference into society by those holding the reigns of power. It is the end result of the re-wired human brain preyed upon and feasted on by television and the corporations that control thought through it. Obedient to the monitor, blind to reality, the army now gathering life takes direct commands from the images, sounds and war cries emanated by television. Acting on instinct, and on the televised propaganda they are conditioned to obey and follow, the army now walking among us neither questions nor searches for answers, preferring to exult the fantasies of fiction over the embarrassments of truth, preferring to dwell in ignorance rather than being liberated by knowledge.


Now, go back and look at the Brown Shirt Movement during the Weimar Germany period, and draw the analogies to our current states of jingoism, xenophobia and "righteous" militarism - the genesis point for fascism is in more fertile soil today, than where it grew from then in Germany
Get some of the Italian Blackshirt movement read as well.

Until you , and you and everyone else now know who you are, do that, please stop polluting the discourse with halfcocked spout offs.


ECK, a question: Why did they take Jim from Taxi's hair, eyes & mouth in your avatar?

Originally posted by Bout Time
Too many of you would be given an "F" for reading comprehension:

Worker bees, soldier ants. Soldier ants. Soldiers are in the military. It makes a distinction between the civilians and the soldiery. After making this disction, it says nothing about 'i don't mean that the army is this fascist army'. It clearly includes soldiers amoung the workers and civilians, and anyone who reads as such is perfectly correct.

On the subject of the brownshirts, its invalid. There are not organized mobs of conservatives marching in the streets wreaking violence and mayhem. The Blackshirts, Garibaldi's blackshirts, helped liberate italy and make it independant and sovereign, so the analoy there fails too. The US is not a more fertile ground for fascism than weimar germany or pre unification italy, particularly because the vast majority of the public is not ready to take to the streets and incite mob rule and anarchy over anything.

The article casts no dispersion on the standing military - you're trying to close degrees of prose to mean exact definitions, which is not the case.

That we do not have rioting hordes in the street is true; but that again is the license of analogy - we're not going to get a 21st century equivalent to shirtsleeve activism handled in the same fashion. But, a quick visit to FreeRepublics message board can glimpse you the same mentality.
Ignorance and piecemeal knowledge of the facts is the "Miracle Grow" fertilizer needed - we have that now in spades, via a willful & complicit corporate media and what I've come to call "overload ignorance" ( when folks are trying to work several jobs to make ends meet, or keep the one they have, or being knee deep in everything except the politics in front of them....they can only digest the sound byte morsel).
I did look up corroboration for my recollection of history & the rise of fascism in Italy via the Black Shirt Movement, and I was correct: colloquial term originally used to refer to the members of the Fasci di combattimento, units of the Fascist organization founded in Italy in Mar., 1919, by Benito Mussolini. A black shirt was the most distinctive part of their uniform. The Black Shirts were mainly discontented ex-soldiers. Ultranationalist, they posed as champions of law and order and violently attacked Communists, socialists, and other radical and progressive groups. They broke up strikes, destroyed trade union headquarters, and drove socialist and Communist officials from office. In Oct., 1922, their activities culminated in the famous march on Rome, which brought Mussolini to power. Afterward, while the term “Black Shirts” continued to be used to refer to party militants in general, the name Fasci di combattimento designated the local party units.
The Fear Factor is a crowd control mechanism that has us allowing the clearly fascist undertakings of today's US governement. Almost that alone has made for the fertile ground I mentioned. There are also numerous threads where I've gone into great detail on how this is not your grandfathers fascism & how today's hybrid is more dangerous because of the very fact that it's not started in the streets, but is a trickle down application.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
To everyone that despises the current administration of the United States of America, even if you say you're an "American":

"We" don't care if you hate us. "We" welcome you to "openly" oppose us. "Our" wrath will come down upon the heads that oppose us like an asteroid "from the Heavens", and will find it's target!

Do not hide behind the guise of "American" and say you hate what we're doing!

Real Americans do not think the way "Liberals" do!

One day I'll have my vengeance! And you won't like it!



[edit on 14/1/05 by Intelearthling]

LMAO

Originally posted by Bout Time
The article casts no dispersion on the standing military - you're trying to close degrees of prose to mean exact definitions, which is not the case.

I'm sorry, but I simply disagree. He uses the term soldiers. He talks about an army of fascists. I agree it can be used to mean 'all those goddamned carsalesmen republican hacks, they're a veritable army of greed'. However, the writer's actual writing does not preclude or exclude soldiers from his 'soldier ants', in fact, it does seem to be including people who, after 911, volunteered for the military to fight. How can it not be taken to include them, amoung the rest?

That we do not have rioting hordes in the street is true; but that again is the license of analogy

Sure, one can call backers of pre-emption 'brownshirts'. But the analogy isn't particularly good, since its so dissimiliar to the actual brown shirts and blackshirts.

units of the Fascist organization founded in Italy in Mar., 1919, by Benito Mussolini.

Ah, musolini's blackshirts, yes. However his blackshirts were emulating Garibaldi's blackshirts, and, sinec garibaldi lead to the nation of italy and its king, i figured, what the heck, maybe he's talking about them.

The Fear Factor is a crowd control mechanism

Bah. Joe Rogan could stop a few people, but not an entire crowd.

that has us allowing the clearly fascist undertakings of today's US governement.

While I'll agree that there is large corporate interesting in government, I do not agree that the government is in any meaningful way, 'fascist', or had you intended it as mere 'allegory'?

but is a trickle down application.

For my own part I don't see the Bushes as fascists. They're hyper-capitalists, but thats not particularly important.

"trickle down fascism' means that there are no brownshirts.

To me, the essay (not an article to be confused with news), began with the assumption that the american army is fascist. So, of course this is an OPINION piece. Dictionary.Com defines FASCISM as:

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism."

I think you would be hard pressed to HONESTLY declare that the US military fits this description. If you can say it with a straight face about America, then I wonder how you would describe the governments/militaries of Europe, Asia, the Middle East etc. In fact, when you look aat it that way, it starts to appear that EVERYONE is a fascist! It seems that everyone has an opinion one way or another about this war. Neither side wants to speak civily about it. People who put out these opinion pieces are trying to promote their ideas. Their own ideas that they BELIEVE is correct. They are NOT trying to educate anyone and they are not willing to budge on any of their points. The fact is that people on both sides of this argument BELIEVE they're absolutely correct with no room for compromise. This is Exactly why religious fanatics fight. I am in no way endorsing the US army or the US government, I just think that promoting these accusations help absolutely NO ONE.

What means more to you (everyone), your own personal fears and Xenophobia, or the the TRUTH?

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

Who was it that recently reminded us that the truth is subjective???

Originally posted by ancientsailor
Keep Viet Nam out of this one, I doubt you even was born then!

It applies. I'm sorry that sticks in your craw.

We learned from Viet Nam that the liberals called the troops baby killers, spit on their uniform, and came out to tell the world Hell no we won't go.

That whole chapter was a sad and tragic period in America's history. Some of us learned plenty WHY things got to such a wretched state. American soldiers were placed into an untenable situation (much like today's Iraq). Greed, corruption and madness reigned. Atrocities were committed.

Ancientsailor, remarkably, you now support those very entities that created and sustained the Vietnam catastrophe. The cognitive dissonance is staggering.

Your abuse of the F-word doesn't do anything for your argument,btw.

and no thanks to Jane Fonda for her role during that time was outright F*** communist acts.

Several years ago she had a conversion to Christianity. She acknowledged the pain she caused Vietnam vets and apologized. I don't supposed that means anything to you?

What did you F*** learn in your history books that can not replace the F*** experience of being there! Back off!

You think you're the only one who's ever been in a war? Plenty of other people here at ATS have, too. And we all have differing views. Based on this quote of yours, your experience hasn't helped you out much. Your anger and resentment comes across loud and clear, before anything else.

Originally posted by ancientsailor

Keep Viet Nam out of this one, I doubt you even was born then!
We learned from Viet Nam that the liberals called the troops baby killers, spit on their uniform, and came out to tell the world Hell no we won't go. French in that time left us holding the bag, and Johnson was an A***hole. Many of our men have been effect with agent oragne and their health is slowly going, in the newspaper printed things that slapped the men fighting right in the f**** face. Did you see a F**** welcome home, or turn your F**** head because they were labeled killers and no thanks to Jane Fonda for her role during that time was outright F*** communist acts. What did you F*** learn in your history books that can not replace the F*** experience of being there! Back off!
DAV member.................Veterans for a better tomorrow and helping those who serve with honor. We are still healing from those who mock and drag an era from the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[edit on 23-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

[edit on 23-1-2005 by ancientsailor]

I really can't believe this. Are you insane? Vietnam was an awful war, soldiers were baby killers, murderers, rapers and destroyers of villages, it's a FACT that this happened, Vietnman was hell on earth and the US govt wrongly sent young men to die in hell on earth. Agent Orage ruined many people's lives and to this day it has its effects on the soldiers and their offspring. How can you deny this?? how can you just turn a blind eye and put a happy face on the soldiers actions and what happened over there? President Johnson wasn't an arsehole as you put it, he was one of the greatest presidents in american history who's domestic legislation changed the country for the better, though his foreign policy was poor. You learnt nothing from Vietnam but you think that you should blindly follow and support the government and the military into every war they get into regardless of what moral or honourable grounds they find themselves in. If you really had any respect of those soldiers you would question the governments every move and the military's actions in any war so that they know they'll get it if they decide to go have another Iraq or Vietnam somewhere.

anyways that's all I have to say, you are amongst a new breed of young people no doubt who has been indoctrinated with the propaganda of the Bush regime. Look towards history for answers, not the present spin on it.

thanks,
drfunk

I really can't believe this. Are you insane? Vietnam was an awful war, soldiers were baby killers, murderers, rapers and destroyers of villages, it's a FACT that this happened, Vietnman was hell on earth and the US govt wrongly sent young men to die in hell on earth. Agent Orage ruined many people's lives and to this day it has its effects on the soldiers and their offspring. How can you deny this?? how can you just turn a blind eye and put a happy face on the soldiers actions and what happened over there? President Johnson wasn't an arsehole as you put it, he was one of the greatest presidents in american history who's domestic legislation changed the country for the better, though his foreign policy was poor. You learnt nothing from Vietnam but you think that you should blindly follow and support the government and the military into every war they get into regardless of what moral or honourable grounds they find themselves in. If you really had any respect of those soldiers you would question the governments every move and the military's actions in any war so that they know they'll get it if they decide to go have another Iraq or Vietnam somewhere.

anyways that's all I have to say, you are amongst a new breed of young people no doubt who has been indoctrinated with the propaganda of the Bush regime. Look towards history for answers, not the present spin on it.

thanks,
drfunk

Excuse me, DrFunkel? What was that about Viet Nam? We are well aware of the era of Viet Nam, what it did to our men, and people like you call them baby killers and proclaim you are a new breed. New breed of what? Hate? This action has been around a long time.
Oh, that old term spin on it, it means your gay and you like men. This is a gross, I prefer women. Also, when Kennedy was shot, he was going to bring back our troops from Viet Nam. He was twice the President than Johnson. Johnson just plain forgot to bring home our men, he covered it up with a few good deeds! I tell ya he made money, huh. I lived through it, history books painted a good picture, huh. There are many things you can fill a book up with, not the reality. I would like to ask where were you when the Mr. Clinton took office. I am where I was when he went in and he left. He did not do much for the Veterans during his regime. If you ask anyone in Arkansa about his time as Govern of that state, lol a lot of chicken factory jobs. They basically laughed at the other 49 states, they did not want him.
Hell, damn near everyone voted to get his a** out of Arkansa. What happened after he left office, moved to New York because they knew he would not be elected for anything back home, wife senator NY-I do believe she has her own bedroom...lol Where were you when Veterans asked for help of donation?
Yeah! turn your head when a vet needs help. We have Nam Vets who are councilors at Vet Centers who care and can help, VFW, American Legions, and other vets who give of their time. Your new breed stats suck because you jump out of the bushes scream what will we do, then run when we need your help. How glamours you are punk. Big balls to talk on screen, no balls for the reality of life. We are the veterans who served so you can wine all you want. So wine, here is a dime, take a walk BSter, your freedome did not come with slandering others! Blind people do fine, it just the smell of S**t out of your mouth that is foul. This what our schools of professor of the new breed have taught, nothing.
Have not reached you adult age have you?
I am done with you.

[edit on 25-1-2005 by GI_WOLVES]

[edit on 25-1-2005 by GI_WOLVES]