The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: Raxoxane

.You remember something a certain way and you mention it.It has nothing do do with demanding special treatment-it is merely stating one's memory of something.

That's not the issue. It's when a snake oil salesman tries to convince you that your memory is correct, and that the entire universe has somehow changed so that the past has been erased and replaced with something that conflicts with your memory that the problems start. Incidentally, why do people get angry when they are told they may simply be mistaken, as everyone is from time to time, yet they are willing to swallow the horsewallop that reality has somehow changed? I would be offended if someone thought I were that gullible.

originally posted by: DJW001
Incidentally, why do people get angry when they are told they may simply be mistaken, as everyone is from time to time, yet they are willing to swallow the horsewallop that reality has somehow changed?

Simply because they are special, and as they think the whole world revolves around them to even hint that their memory may be wrong is a huge affront to who they think they are.

originally posted by: tweetie
a reply to: tigertatzen

Various ATS members have been using the term to mock others. It's a meme. It began in part, if my MEMORY serves which in this case it may not because I wasn't paying much attention, with some young people reported in the news who wanted a safe space so their feelings couldn't be hurt by others. Don't quote me on that but I know I'm at least close.

Special Snowflake Syndrome

I haven't read the thread but I knew the term would come up a lot in an ATS search because I've seen it used so many times.

Yes I can tell it's completely unoriginal, since every person mocking others with it is using it, and they rarely use their own material because that would mean they might not be like everyone else and it's apparent they find that threatening since they continue trying to project that onto you and others...but it just strikes me as silly, since all snowflakes are "special". Singling out one snowflake and making fun of it for being different, like a pack of bullying kindergarteners is amusing to me, since all of them are different. It seems maybe it would have made more sense if they picked something like cookie cutters or candy molds or something that would matter if one didn't match the other. You know, something that actually has the possibility to be "special" in some way.

I'm also baffled by the term "meme". Apparently it does not refer to those silly posters with the text on them that people post on facebook. I have no idea what the new meaning is. I've seen that used liberally throughout the thread too. Makes it difficult to follow the conversation.

s.a reply to: tigertatzen

I'm also baffled by the term "meme". Apparently it does not refer to those silly posters with the text on them that people post on facebook. I have no idea what the new meaning is. I've seen that used liberally throughout the thread too. Makes it difficult to follow the conversation.

Correct. The concept of a meme is based on a theory that compares human thought to evolutionary biology. The current slang usage is a corruption of this:

en.wikipedia.org...

I hasten to point out that the theory is at least ten years old, as I recall discussing it with colleagues in the late 1990s. Just because you have not heard of it before does not mean it did not exist.

As for all snowflakes being different, that is a popular folk belief. There are a finite number of configurations, based on the geometry of water molecules.

originally posted by: DJW001
s.a reply to: tigertatzen

I'm also baffled by the term "meme". Apparently it does not refer to those silly posters with the text on them that people post on facebook. I have no idea what the new meaning is. I've seen that used liberally throughout the thread too. Makes it difficult to follow the conversation.

Correct. The concept of a meme is based on a theory that compares human thought to evolutionary biology. The current slang usage is a corruption of this:

en.wikipedia.org...

I hasten to point out that the theory is at least ten years old, as I recall discussing it with colleagues in the late 1990s. Just because you have not heard of it before does not mean it did not exist.

As for all snowflakes being different, that is a popular folk belief. There are a finite number of configurations, based on the geometry of water molecules.

Why would you assume that I think it "never existed"? That's quite a stretch, and completely inaccurate. All I said was, the term apparently means something other than just posters with amusing text in them. Not that those never existed...of course they existed. They still do exist, actually...people post them in threads here all the time. I've even done it on occasion. It is entirely possible, you know, for people to not know every single meaning of every single term on the internet. That doesn't mean there was a "reality change" just because someone has not heard of something, does it?

To be clear, I know what a "meme" is as far as a funny/silly poster or quote. But I figured, correctly as it turns out, that it doesn't just refer to those. Perfectly normal.

The snowflake thing, however, is not just some "folk myth", as you suggest. I learned that in elementary school, not at some folk gathering. Now, apparently it matters what type of snowflake is in question, but it's definitely rooted in science, not myth. It simply struck me as a silly association by which to single out one person and mock them for being different. And it still does. Something far more "ordinary" would make more sense...cookie cutters, for example. That was all.

www.its.caltech.edu...

a reply to: tigertatzen

Excerpts from DJWOO1's link to Wikipedia [bold-faced words are mine]:

The "culture" being ATS:

A meme (/ˈmiːm/ meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture".[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a mimicked theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures.[3]

The word meme is a shortening (modeled on gene) of mimeme (from Ancient Greek μίμημα pronounced [míːmɛːma] mīmēma, "imitated thing", from μιμεῖσθαι mimeisthai, "to imitate", from μῖμος mimos, "mime")[13] coined by British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins in The Selfish Gene (1976)[1][14] as a concept for discussion of evolutionary principles in explaining the spread of ideas and cultural phenomena. Examples of memes given in the book included melodies, catchphrases, fashion, and the technology of building arches. [15]

I don't mean to go off topic but I saw the special snowflake branding start at ATS and kept seeing it being used by an increasing number of members to label, in a condescending way, the people who do not think/perceive in the same way as they do. The mocking term has been brought to this thread and discussion as well, as an intellectual weapon. If it has spread to other websites and forums, I don't know, because I haven't pursued it.

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

It only becomes personal if you are highly defensive. That poster used circular logic to support their case. You yourself, and others of the ME crowd, flatly reject memory issues as an answer to your problem. That is you being closed minded.

I was open minded to this years ago when it popped up in the Berenstain thread, but since there is not one shred of scientific evidence that says anything other than faulty memory is the issue then I must dismiss the explanations derived from fantasy.

You engage in logical fallacies, as does the entire ME crowd, to support your case. Then you say people like me are insulting you for pointing them out...it's kind of sad.

I have shared several ME experiences. The difference between the bulk of the ME crowd and me? I am not crazy or delusional. I accept that my memory was wrong and I won't throw myself into the world of fantasy to make myself feel better.

did someone remember Muhammad ali dead? Some people seem to think so.

As I've observed this thread develop and expand, I've decided to take the "scientific review methods" used by some contributors, since that's the kind of thinking they're grounded in long term, as a compliment to the nature of the subject matter because if it didn't interest them they wouldn't be here.

I don't take the insults and mocking as compliments, which only serve to discredit the integrity of the creators of those comments in this type of venue, but the phenomena isn't going away any time soon no matter how many insults are hurled.

I'm a female. I wasn't socialized as a male. On the grade school playground boys test, insult, curse, razz and challenge each other, and go after each other's weaknesses and faults. That is how they toughen each other up for being in the world later on in life. The behavior extends into the locker room in high school and continues on for many years with many males, and now into the internet. It's fun for many of them unless they can't measure up and give it back. It also extends to the intellectual level for those so inclined. Not all males do this but many do.

I use the faulty memory arguments to hone my perceptions and thinking skills as to what this phenomena is actually about. Everyone knows their memory functions are not always accurate and could give countless examples but this phenomena goes beyond that which is why it doesn't die.

Just some thoughts.

a reply to: alienDNA

I don't have a recall on that one but I know others do.

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: tigertatzen

originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: tigertatzen
I don't speak Italian, but I am fluent in Spanish and I can assure you that the letter 'a' is pronounced more than one way, just as it is in English...but rarely is it ever pronounced like the 'a' in "apple". The most common way is how it sounds when you recite the alphabet en Español: "Ah".

It's my second mother tongue and I can assure you 'A' always sound like 'A' it doesn't change.
The vowels in Spanish don't change sound, they sound the same all the time.
Perhaps it sounds like Apple for British, as Americans do have different pronunciation.

Yes, well it's my first language. The 'a' in apple sounds like the same letter in "hat" in America. That sound is not commonly used in Spanish. It is an "ah" sound. Like "hot". Exactly as it's pronounced when reciting the Spanish alphabet. Where in the world is the Spanish 'a' spoken differently? Not Spain, Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba or America. That's very interesting.

Eta: Sorry, but vowel sounds do change...I'm changing them right now with each word. In every language they change. In Spanish, for example, the word "Abuela"...both A's are pronounced "ah". But in a word like "guay", the vowel sound changes to a "long 'A'". Exactly like the A is pronounced when reciting the alphabet in English. It is an alternate vowel sound.

I could have sworn "guay" was pronounced with a long I sound. Since Y is like a vowel, it's like a combo of the short A sound plus the long E sound. Maybe I'm too used to South and central American dialects. Long A sound comes from E, usually. It's quite different from English where we can pronounce different vowels several different ways. With Spanish it's usually pretty specific. I could easily be wrong here, but I swear that's how folks say it.

Yes, like the word "hay" is pronounced. You're not wrong, actually. I phoned a friend on this one. My husband's grandma, who is from Mexico. She says there are many different Spanish pronunciations from region to region.

She said the word "guay" is pronounced differently in California and also in other countries. She also said it can be spelled three different ways. She believes that American English has influenced that with every language spoken here. It makes a lot of sense. The most predominate dialect spoken by Mexican Americans here is referred to as "Spanglish", more so by the younger generations. It's a pidgin dialect, and not always easy to understand, either.

i checked swedens biggest forums and noone is talking about it there. +1 to only english speaking countries..
it gets a mention but not much more.
at that same forum we discuss chemtrails for example, with over 8000 comments, and 71000 comments on the assange/rape thing.

this has since creating the thread, gotten 6 comments since 14th of april.
biggest forum in swe covering all topics that could possibly be discussed.

www.youtube.com...
title: "mandela effect true we now have the same anatomy we have merged or died"
(that sentence though... "

bluebeard, who seems like a stereotype conspiracy nut, posted this vid few hours ago.
youre in good company people

edit:
and pretty much every video ive watched, is just going over the same things again and again, and not a single piece of proof is offered.
christianity and cern also seems like a very common theme.
So yeah. Great company


edit2:
lOL another classic:
"Mandela effect has removed 3 of my kids from this existence they just don't exist"

WTF!!
www.youtube.com...
this is just getting too good now... And I called it.. I said in my very first post, this rabbit hole is TOO deep, DONT fall in!
And some people did fell in, and here we have a prime example. Wanna stay sane? Dont become this guy!

its getting just too much... haha.. im just dumbfounded..
I mean, this guy points at stuff on the map, saying "i dont remember that being there" - and that is enough for him to claim he is from another world... just cause he dont remember a country being the way it is..
i mean ... seriously.. ??

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: tigertatzen

That's not what I said...in Spanish and French speaking countries there is little if any variation in accent. Only the uneducated sound different, and I'm not saying that to be rude.

In English speaking countries accents can change just miles from each other.

Ok, well I was referring to the US. Thank you for clarifying what you meant as you did not specify. But accents most definitely DO change from area to area in Spanish speaking countries, and quite significantly. The cadence of speech also varies, and different slurring of consonants. For example, baño, in some areas, is slurred and pronounced "vaño".

It's often difficult to communicate with other Spanish speaking people from other countries because of this issue. People from Guatemala, for example are difficult to understand. Their pronunciation is different, they speak more rapidly, and of course use slang that makes no sense to people from other areas.

There are also words that have multiple different meanings, just like English...for instance, how a lot of people in the north say "pop" while people in the south say "soda"...it's like that with many languages. I don't speak French, just Arabic and Spanish, but Arab dialects are that way too.

You are right, the education of the speaker does make a difference, just like it does with English. And I think, too, from where that education was obtained. I learned English from a Brit, so I have to remind myself not to spell things the way I was taught...like neighbour or colour...because my fellow Americans think I'm misspelling the words.

I'm thinking that things like this can account for at least some of the Mandela effects. It might also factor in to the apparent exclusivity of the phenom to English speakers.

a reply to: DJW001

Let me put it this way-and bear in mind i speak only for myself-i have looong before i've ever even heard of the ME,known that this world/matrix/our reality is far more complex and strange than i could even begin to imagine. I have distinct memories of living in an apartment block where i NEVER lived,for instance.I have watched reality shift without ingesting Any drugs,natural,synthetic,legal or illegal. I have experienced since early childhood childhood so many things of such high strangeness that it is simply gobsmacking. I don't need a snake-oil salesman to tell me or try and convince me that there is something very strange going on,on this planet,and that the nature of reality is light years from being as simple as most people accept it to be.

I honestly do not Know what is causing this ME,but i am Not going to just assume it is all,the whole entire thing is, because of Everyone speaking of anomalous memories as simply being forgetful or stupid.I have seen and experienced too much in my 51 years to just assume people are full of it, people speaking about things the majority think is stupid. I have never given a s**t what the majority thinks,or believes.

I say how i remember something-and incidentally being South African,i find it super-bizarre that so many people have distinct memories of hearing the news of Mandela dying in prison. Had That happened,my country would have erupted into a bloodbath that would have been nothing short of biblical.I did not like him,personally,BUT he was the one who stood as a bulwark,who stopped this powderkeg nation from detonating into a landscape from Hieronymus Bosch.

And it WAS ALWAYS Rose Wilder STONE,my whole childhood long,i Devoured those books and the name of Laura Ingalls Wilder's daughter was always cited in a brief synopsis about the Ingalls family,and Laura Ingalls Wilder's life story.If someone can find mention of her first husband Mr.Stone having died and her remarrying to a Mr. Lane-well then there is no mystery,is there? But i looked and could not find anything about that.

en.wikipedia.org...

Only thing is-it was before,Rose Wilder STONE. I would stake my life on it. My life.

originally posted by: tweetie
a reply to: tigertatzen

Excerpts from DJWOO1's link to Wikipedia [bold-faced words are mine]:

The "culture" being ATS:

A meme (/ˈmiːm/ meem)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture".[2] A meme acts as a unit for carrying cultural ideas, symbols, or practices that can be transmitted from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a mimicked theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures.[3]

The word meme is a shortening (modeled on gene) of mimeme (from Ancient Greek μίμημα pronounced [míːmɛːma] mīmēma, "imitated thing", from μιμεῖσθαι mimeisthai, "to imitate", from μῖμος mimos, "mime")[13] coined by British evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins in The Selfish Gene (1976)[1][14] as a concept for discussion of evolutionary principles in explaining the spread of ideas and cultural phenomena. Examples of memes given in the book included melodies, catchphrases, fashion, and the technology of building arches. [15]

I don't mean to go off topic but I saw the special snowflake branding start at ATS and kept seeing it being used by an increasing number of members to label, in a condescending way, the people who do not think/perceive in the same way as they do. The mocking term has been brought to this thread and discussion as well, as an intellectual weapon. If it has spread to other websites and forums, I don't know, because I haven't pursued it.

I seriously have never heard it at all before this thread. I'm not a huge purveyor of the internet...I only come here or facebook, and to look specific things up. That's quite possibly why I've only seen it used here, but of course anything is possible.

I also never saw the word "meme" used until 2013, and was not sure what it was until I finally asked my brother. He told me it was those posters/quotes that everyone shares on social media. He neglected to mention the other meaning. But the first time I've ever seen it used in this context was right here on this thread. I likely would not have even found that out otherwise, lol.

I also would not likely have ever noticed most of the MEs if not for this thread, come to think of it. Or more accurately, would have had cause to question them further, because I did notice a number of them and just brushed it off. But I noticed the majority of them at different times. Like I said before...gee, thanks Prince.

originally posted by: TombEscaper
You seem to be confused about the difference between proof and evidence. The coasterbuzz topic is most certainly valid evidence of a non-Berenstain reality.

It is SUBJECTIVE evidence. It could really just be a group of people conversing together that have confused the term over the pronunciation in the past. I've seen plenty of groups of people discussing topics and incorrectly spelling things and being wrong about their claims. It's kind of an appeal to popularity, it doesn't bear any indication on whether it's correct or incorrect.

se a GPS navigational system en route to every place you travel to; nearby friends' or family members' homes, your local grocery store, your bank, your workplace, etc?

If not, why not?

Do you have to pull out a lyric sheet to read from every time you sing "Happy Birthday" to someone?

If not, why not?

When talking to long-time familiar friends, acquaintances, and family members, do you first verify their names before addressing them by their names?

If not, why not?

The big difference here is that the things you mention are done by the people pretty consistently or often enough that the memory stays sharp. Most of the claims in the thread go back to childhood and are from people that do not do those things every day or even every year. Most are relying on memory from 20+ years ago, they haven't been actively reading the Berenstain books over the years to keep the memory fresh. It's not nearly the same as the happy birthday song which people usually hear several times a year for their entire life or remembering the route to drive from your home to work each day.

If you made that journey once, 20 years ago, chances are you would forget the route. If you only had one birthday celebration in your life and hadn't heard the song in 20 years, you might forget the lyrics. If you only met somebody a few times 20 years ago and then see them today, it is quite easy to forget their name. You are mistakenly comparing recent memories to memories from a long time ago. It's a faulty comparison. Short term memory and long term memory are treated differently by the brain.

I have demonstrated multiple times how the ME phenomenon, by and large, is NOT predicated on issues of long-term memory.

You really haven't though, because almost every ME instance is folks remembering things from 20 years ago, not daily routine stuff that is repeated over and over again throughout your entire life. The happy birthday song literally repeats the same line over an over. It's kind of hard to forget or mix up.

Just think about it. Who is more likely to remember something accurately?

- The person that does it on a monthly/weekly basis.

- The person that hasn't done it in 20 years.

The answer is obvious. 99% of people do not have "perfect" or "certain" memories of an event from 20 years back.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: TombEscaper

no - its evidence of delusional twits

So a whole congregation of people is made up of "delusional twits" because you refuse to contemplate reality being more complex than your Matrix-indoctrination has conditioned you to believe. People who hold to the notion of the BerenstEin Bears, ME experiencers, are all "delusional twits" according to you and yours.

And yet, it is supposedly the ME'ers who are the self-exalting, condescending ones.