Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
ally you don't see the hypocrisy in deciding a 2 year old is trans and swapping them without any difinative test, and undeniably a really crappy diagnosis rate..

Parents of some of these kids say as soon as their children can talk they are saying they are a girl or a boy. This is a fundamental basis of who all of us are as people and even kids know when it is wrong. If your mother put you in dresses and pig tails as a child, at what age would you have protested this? At five? At seven? What age would have known this was wrong for you?

For the umpteenth time, what clinicians look for is this that this behavior and vocalization is expressed consistently, persistently and insistently over time. When a kid has been trying to tell his/her parents this since they were two and is saying and demanding the same thing when they are 4 or 5, that is when they are evaluated and diagnosed.

That is your test. Is it definitive? No but when associated with other problems such as depression, anxiety and the whole list I don't feel like typing out for you AGAIN, and transitioning turns these kids around, makes them happy, cooperative and able to socialize then it doesn't take a brain scan, blood test or a rocket scientist to figure out this makes the lives of these kids better and improves their quality of life.

You really don't see how crazy that sounds???

It sounds crazy to you because you haven't witnessed it or experienced it but I know if my folks had listened to me when I was five and if it had been possible to transition back then, it sure would have sparred me a lot of grief, frustration and having my ass kicked for being different and sticking out. It would made my childhood far less traumatic, far less violent, a million times happier and I wouldn't have had to live for years locked away in my bedroom wanting to kill myself or be dead because I didn't want to live a lie or be perceived as something I was not. It took my parents until I was 15 and was nearly killed before they even started to get it and believe me, I've had every friggin' test under the sun and then some starting from the age of 10 until I was 17 and got a break for a while until we could actually find a doctor that knew what the hell they were talking about to get me hormones.

Save your cries for definitive testing for someone that cares. The proof, the test is in the children's lives that are improved, that are livable and happy and that have the chance to be normal kids. If you're going to stand in the way of that just because you don't understand it then I'm going to be standing in your way so these kids don't have to deal with crap in their lives by someone that thinks they know better than their own parents and doctors.

There is no way you are a parent...no parent thinks their 2 year old has even close to that level of cognative thinking.


All of no group of people have gone on to having improved lives....


You show your bias in the way you word things and refuse to even contemplate an alternative.


It's really just been one ridiculously false absolute after another..and absolutes that nearly anyone could tell you was illogical as can be..

You want to give these kids a happy life, but reject even the thought that it could involve making them match their brains and bodies match 100%...

Making a trans person the closest proximity to the opposite sex we can, is not making them 100% whole. Even if it was a lie they needed to make life bare able, it would still be a lie.

But even when it is a hypothetical best case scenerio. You can't comprehend it the other way....

If you could make their brains match their bodies, that would make them 100% whole, but you would rather them be 70% whole and face all the negative social ramifications of being different... Just so they have to stay trans....

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

lgbt movement
lesbian + gay + bisexual + transgender
the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual
transgender is a born condition where the brain does not match the gender of the body, a childhood condition that lasts a lifetime.

Marrying transgender to lesbian gay and bisexual as the movement is labeled, promoted and presented to society to accept is what I am talking about.

You are correct in stating the "T" in LGB is a completely different thing. These various minorities have aligned purely for political expediency and clout. Some in the LGB factions want to be divorced from the T and some in the transgender camps feel the LGB's have abandoned championing for their needs after the right for marriage equality was won.

Take my word for it though, there are many organizations and groups specifically addressing the needs of transgender children, their parents and adults that have nothing to do with LGB. And by the way, being gay or transgender isn't a lifestyle. Sheesh!

And tying pedophilia into of any of this? Aw come on man, you're being delusional and paranoid.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

lgbt movement
lesbian + gay + bisexual + transgender
the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual
transgender is a born condition where the brain does not match the gender of the body, a childhood condition that lasts a lifetime.

Marrying transgender to lesbian gay and bisexual as the movement is labeled, promoted and presented to society to accept is what I am talking about.

You are correct in stating the "T" in LGB is a completely different thing. These various minorities have aligned purely for political expediency and clout. Some in the LGB factions want to be divorced from the T and some in the transgender camps feel the LGB's have abandoned championing for their needs after the right for marriage equality was won.

Take my word for it though, there are many organizations and groups specifically addressing the needs of transgender children, their parents and adults that have nothing to do with LGB. And by the way, being gay or transgender isn't a lifestyle. Sheesh!

And tying pedophilia into of any of this? Aw come on man, you're being delusional and paranoid.

So the LGB side of the movement did get what they wanted out of the merger, marriage rights.
The plot thickens.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
If you could make their brains match their bodies, that would make them 100% whole, but you would rather them be 70% whole and face all the negative social ramifications of being different... Just so they have to stay trans....

Yes but the fact is the brain can't be made to fit the body. EVERYTHING under the sun has been tried. Drugs, massive doses or hormones, electro-convulsive shock therapy, aversion therapy, reparative therapy, exorcism and praying it away and all have failed and failed miserably.

Am I biased, you bet. You also fail to see how transitioning young, blockers and hormones is to prevent the social ramifications of being different. The trans people and kids that you see out and open are just a very tiny minority compared to those completely blended into society as normal boys and girls and men and women you never hear of or have any idea they were born a different sex.

Transitioning kids is to normalize them so they can grow up and not be transgender or different.

Making a trans person the closest proximity to the opposite sex we can, is not making them 100% whole. Even if it was a lie they needed to make life bare able, it would still be a lie.

What is a lie is to live a facade, as someone you are not pretending to be something you are not. With the exception of being able to carry children, which is something a lot of women can't or never do, I feel 100% whole and am as female as the next woman in the ways that matter. Except for here, now that someone inadvertently revealed my medical history and I'm begrudgingly talking about it, people have been clueless about my sex at birth since I was 18 so it is possible to have a perfectly normal and fulfilling life. Is everyone as fortunate? No but they're certainly not to be denied opportunity to do what is best for them. My childhood would have been better, it would have been easier, I would have fit in and had many advantages that it did not. I see these 5 and 6 year olds exactly like I was. I know what is in store for them if they are forced to be and live as something they are not and I want to spare this pain and difficulty in their lives.

Maybe we should be listening to what Transgendered people want, rather than dictating to them how they must be?

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
If you could make their brains match their bodies, that would make them 100% whole, but you would rather them be 70% whole and face all the negative social ramifications of being different... Just so they have to stay trans....

Yes but the fact is the brain can't be made to fit the body. EVERYTHING under the sun has been tried. Drugs, massive doses or hormones, electro-convulsive shock therapy, aversion therapy, reparative therapy, exorcism and praying it away and all have failed and failed miserably.

Am I biased, you bet. You also fail to see how transitioning young, blockers and hormones is to prevent the social ramifications of being different. The trans people and kids that you see out and open are just a very tiny minority compared to those completely blended into society as normal boys and girls and men and women you never hear of or have any idea they were born a different sex.

Transitioning kids is to normalize them so they can grow up and not be transgender or different.

Making a trans person the closest proximity to the opposite sex we can, is not making them 100% whole. Even if it was a lie they needed to make life bare able, it would still be a lie.

What is a lie is to live a facade, as someone you are not pretending to be something you are not. With the exception of being able to carry children, which is something a lot of women can't or never do, I feel 100% whole and am as female as the next woman in the ways that matter. Except for here, now that someone inadvertently revealed my medical history and I'm begrudgingly talking about it, people have been clueless about my sex at birth since I was 18 so it is possible to have a perfectly normal and fulfilling life. Is everyone as fortunate? No but they're certainly not to be denied opportunity to do what is best for them. My childhood would have been better, it would have been easier, I would have fit in and had many advantages that it did not. I see these 5 and 6 year olds exactly like I was. I know what is in store for them if they are forced to be and live as something they are not and I want to spare this pain and difficulty in their lives.

Yea, at 18 your life became normalized, because adults don't have to go where they are not wanted/don't want to be. As an adult you can disappear and reinvent yourself. Being bullied becomes a criminally prosecutable offense so , except for the odd whisper your basically left alone.

However we are talking about swapping trans kids.... Having to go to school with children is a far different animal!

But we are not talking about adults, we are talking about the effects on making the changes to a child....

Swapping a kid in grade school will ensure all of the negative social aspects previously mentioned. Taking your kid from being considered kinda weird, to totally different and and the center of gravity for every bully in the tri-state area.


Would it really have been SOO devestating not to include your school in your personal life? Being yourself at home, while playing a role at school that allowed you complete your education?

Honestly it seems like "how you are viewed by others" plays a bigger role in trans happiness than, then being able to be yourself....if it was about being yourself, you can be yourself at home... You don't have to be yourself every second of every day...

It really seems like it's an issue of "I don't care how devestating a kids childhood is, as long as there are more openly trans kids so I feel validated and not so isolated, screw the bullying and misdiagnosis that might could have been avoided....

If your brain wiring doesn't match your DNA, it would be a no brainer to fix it. The reason trans people exist today is because we cannot fix it. Not because science wants to arbitrarily create a third gender because of a very uncommon birth defect. Only 1 in a few thousand are even diagnosed transgendered, and a big portion of the time those are misdiagnosed. Meaning the actual is far lower.

originally posted by: Painterz
Maybe we should be listening to what Transgendered people want, rather than dictating to them how they must be?

We are talking about children, who inherently can't make such decisions for themselves....and how young of a child you can reasonably make that decision for...

Can a 2-4 year old provide enough input for a Dr/parent to make the decision to change their dress and name?

Can an 8-10 year old provide enough to begin chemically blocking puberty?

That's a totally different question than "should adults be able to do what they want, as long as no one is hurt?"

That ones a real easy yes for anyone rational.

Just an opinion, Not meant to offend.

It's child abuse. No child should go through any kind of medical interventions of any kind in regard to gender. Not until they are old enough to legally make that choice on their own. As an adult. Until then it should be treated as a psychological issue, and dealt with accordingly.

imo

originally posted by: ausername
Just an opinion, Not meant to offend.

It's child abuse. No child should go through any kind of medical interventions of any kind in regard to gender. Not until they are old enough to legally make that choice on their own. As an adult. Until then it should be treated as a psychological issue, and dealt with accordingly.

imo

Hormone blockers are given in pre-puberty to delay the physical changes - - so "child" can make their own decision when they turn 18.

Do you understand the physical changes? If you are a female in a man's body - - - you do not want that body taking on the physical male changes. Same as a female to male does not want breasts.

a reply to: ausername

Good thing it's just an opinion, and you don't have any control over how families decide to deal with this issue. Good thing indeed. Because it's opinions like yours that are already causing many teen suicides.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Any child under 16 should'nt be opting for a sex change or even being allowed to consider one. In school they should be taught about 'hormones' and Male/Female relationships as usual and yes I believe that if one's mind is a bit crazy and confused and if there was/is a way to re-wire the parts of a brain which make you certain of your sex, then that operation should be in place.

Lets face it.... if you have a Penis.... you are a Male. If you have a Virgina... you are Female.

Male and Female Pro-create... not Male and Male or Female and Female. So, if you can re-wire a persons ?brain to fit their Gender, you should also be able to re-wire a persons brain to that of Straight!

But anyway... not to go off topic.... but you are born what you are born. If one grows up to be flat-chested for instance, this doesn't mean you are supposed to be Male and you can get treatment so your Breasts enlarge. As for having a wee member... you can get treatment down there too.

If you prefer playing Male games or being more Macho.. that doesn't mean you are supposed to be Male (If you are Female). If you like Colour and the smell of Flowers that doesn't mean you are suppoed to be Female (If you are Male).

The Media tends to decide for most people who are thinking about it. Those people do need help IMO.

Whilst we're on the subject of Trans.... why don't these stay off Dating sites? What makes them think that if they change sex and display it on their profiles as such, that they wil attract the opposite sex? But on saying that I'm glad they do spell out on their Profiles that that is what they are because it wouldn't be very fair on the opposite sex if they found out later in Life!

Having said all this though.... I believe that 'Gays' have more Psychological problems than those harbouring thoughts of changing sex.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Painterz
Maybe we should be listening to what Transgendered people want, rather than dictating to them how they must be?

Can an 8-10 year old provide enough to begin chemically blocking puberty?

Why does it keep getting younger that hormone blockers are given?

They have been used for years with no lasting side effects.

originally posted by: ausername
Just an opinion, Not meant to offend.

It's child abuse. No child should go through any kind of medical interventions of any kind in regard to gender. Not until they are old enough to legally make that choice on their own. As an adult. Until then it should be treated as a psychological issue, and dealt with accordingly.

imo

There are definately Psychological issues involved. IMO, they do need help and if the brain can be re-wired to help them, then they should have it done.

What is wrong with that? I'd say it's a better option than chopping off certain parts of your body or taking hormone treatment to stop you growing certain parts!

Well they arent there yet but they are getting closer. STem cells are wonderful things arent they?

Anyway heres a interesting link. WARNING MEDICAL SCIENCE NUDE MODELS AHEAD.

second type woman

One day Transgenders will be able to have natural births too. Aint that cool?

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ausername
Just an opinion, Not meant to offend.

It's child abuse. No child should go through any kind of medical interventions of any kind in regard to gender. Not until they are old enough to legally make that choice on their own. As an adult. Until then it should be treated as a psychological issue, and dealt with accordingly.

imo

Hormone blockers are given in pre-puberty to delay the physical changes - - so "child" can make their own decision when they turn 18.

Do you understand the physical changes? If you are a female in a man's body - - - you do not want that body taking on the physical male changes. Same as a female to male does not want breasts.

That's kinda interesting, if a male child was born with breasts or facial hair on a female, if you had the ability to fix it at birth, should you?

Or just in case the kid might be trans, don't fix it???

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TinfoilTP

the first three are a sexual lifestyle where they choose how to reach orgasm other than exclusively heterosexual

I see. You consider orgasm that which defines you.

You don't see a problem where children are seen as adult enough to accept their own transgenderism as it is presented alongside a purely sexually orientated movement?

"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No, it defines them by their choosing and I have no problem with it.

your second response,
"Boys on this side, girls on that side" is sexually oriented?

No it is not and that is my point. Why marry transgender to gay lesbian and bisexual other than to equivocate it. That is what it has done, equivocate one with the other in the publics eye. It is a deception. To deceive is to have a purpose for it is more work to deceive than to tell the truth. That purpose is logically to be able to promote pedophilia to the public as the next stage in the sexual revolution.

PEople used to live a lot shorter time...so those back then were all pedophiles right? It wasnt uncomon to have a teenage wife.

I think so...

I don't think the time that has passed has erased the truly monsterous acts. Rape, murder, torturers.

If not then that means anyone who rejected their society and say, taught there daughters to read, are not now nor were they then criminals....

I think it just makes the ones who bucked the system that much more heroic..

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
. . . it's a better option than chopping off certain parts of your body . . .

Surgery is only one option.

Some choose it, many don't.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ausername
Just an opinion, Not meant to offend.

It's child abuse. No child should go through any kind of medical interventions of any kind in regard to gender. Not until they are old enough to legally make that choice on their own. As an adult. Until then it should be treated as a psychological issue, and dealt with accordingly.

imo

Hormone blockers are given in pre-puberty to delay the physical changes - - so "child" can make their own decision when they turn 18.

Do you understand the physical changes? If you are a female in a man's body - - - you do not want that body taking on the physical male changes. Same as a female to male does not want breasts.

That's kinda interesting, if a male child was born with breasts or facial hair on a female, if you had the ability to fix it at birth, should you?

Or just in case the kid might be trans, don't fix it???

Do you have children?

Have you raised children?