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Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

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posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: redshoes

Yeah. Agreed. This has already been pointed out, but that fact is being heavily downplayed to continue the narrative of "unknown side effects".


To be fair there is actual concern within the medical community of the effects of the treatment on brain development. Again to me it comes down to risk analysis as a parent. Not to make it sound inpersonal. Is the possibility there may be a lag in brain development worse than the anguish of GD?

Parents also give their kids say a drug like canabis oil without widespread testing nearly all anecrdotal evidence because everything else failed and the situation is that in need of relief.


This is why I maintain that this isn't my business and the decision should be left up to a professional, the parents and the kid in question. It's not my place to decide what is best for the child. If the family agrees that transition would be best, then fine. Let's do it. I don't have many problems with the procedure as I've already mentioned.


I agree. I have been saying the same thing. Just trying to put it in perspective for others and expand apon what you are saying.




posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
I would not call that going all out. They have to be very careful on how they are moving forward with that research.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Yea I don't understand why it is so confusing for some people.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: Krazysh0t
I would not call that going all out. They have to be very careful on how they are moving forward with that research.



I find it no different than the risks involved with taking puberty blockers in relation to gender transition. Especially since the side effects from using them for other reasons are already known.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 11:01 AM
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The diagnosis ='s the swapping/hormones, there is no test, so the diagnosis is everything.


Nope, not true, a diagnosis, does not automatically result in the prescription of hormone therapy.



The diagnosis is only found to be validated 20% of the time (the 50% was me being conservative and allowing for inability to complete the change).

So we would be doing this 100% based on a diagnosis that only has a 20% confirmed success rate and an assumed (by my random self) 50% real success rate!!!!

So your kid is diagnosis as transgendered, you have a 50/50 chamce that diagnosis is right. Go you decide to stop puberty till 18, with there being no studies to tell what the end results are.....


Again, not true. You're assumption here is that gender identity expression is a fixed constant. There are plenty of studies that show this is probably not the case for a large degree of people.

Allowing a patient to express their chosen gender more often than not results in them coming to terms with who they really are and as a result the dysphoria is overcome. So even in the case of the 80% of kids who change their mind and go back to being their birth gender the outcome is a success.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: redshoes

If that turns out to even be real numbers. The whole 80 percent may be overblown. New studies are being done to check the one source everybody has been using.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Well my 20% figure is based on professional experience.

There are plenty of anecdotal cases that suggest the percentage of people who have this condition to some degree or another at various stages of their development is increasing, due probably to the increased public awareness and the identification of gender fluidity, gender non conformation and binary identities as a form of gender identity.

As evidenced by the downgrading of GID in the latest draft version of the DSM.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: redshoes
a reply to: luthier

Well my 20% figure is based on professional experience.

There are plenty of anecdotal cases that suggest the percentage of people who have this condition to some degree or another at various stages of their development is increasing, due probably to the increased public awareness and the identification of gender fluidity, gender non conformation and binary identities as a form of gender identity.

As evidenced by the downgrading of GID in the latest draft version of the DSM.


Got it.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

So now the schools are presenting birth certificates of the transgendered kids to all the students?


No, but the principal will know, and then whoever they tell. Unless you move outta state your going to be the gossip of your last town and today with social media especially, it's real hard to vanish. Your kids going to slip up sooner or later. When that happens, what is a bigger story?

" I heard tommy dresses like a girl at home."

Or

" we found out Tina is really a boy. Look that Tina dressed as a girl right there."

And I am not validating any of that stuff, but I'd be damned before I decided to sentence my kid to that, and I don't care what she decides about any of that.....

I would help my kid hide a body. I would (beep) the whole time and talk trash...but i would go get a shovel and start digging.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: redshoes
a reply to: Krazysh0t

You should also note that hormone blockers are used commonly for a number of recognized medical conditions that have nothing to do with gender identity disorder. The protocols are well established and the drugs are controlled medications only available through prescription by a registered medical practitioner.

For example, T Blockers are used to treat some forms of advanced and chronic acne to prevent serious scarring.
Hormone blockers are also prescribed to some females to help regulate or alter menstrual cycles and other psychical problems.
These are the same drugs that are used to treat people with gender identity problems, although in most cases the prescribed dose is less for someone with GID.

These are not 'new' or 'radical' forms of treatment. The meds have been around for a long time and are well tested.



But not when it comes to blocking puberty indefinitely OR all the way through to adulthood. The first case of that was in 2007, so there are no long term studies. Hell there as prob only a handful who have finished growing completely.

So no one can claim anything resembling the

"Oh, it's no big deal, if they change their mind they will start puberty at 27 and be perfectly normal..."

People on here have been claiming. I posted a link from PBS (does it get more credible than boring @$$ PBS? Lol) a page or so back.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: redshoes




If my kid can't handle that, then the problem is with my kid.

How will my kid hold down a job if they insist they don't have to wear a uniform?

What do you mean what I see? I've only focused on the reality of the situation, it's the emotional side I think is undefinable.


The reality doesn't seem to matter to the people who send there kid dressed in a way that makes them a target. That's the reality.


Who are these people that you are referring to?

Would you not agree that a better solution might be to educate our kids to accept people no matter what their race/gender/religion etc?

why are you so prepared to accept that trans kids are somehow legitimate targets rather than those that are doing the targeting?

A kid gets beat up or worse because he wears a dress to school. And you seem to be implying that it's his own fault for wearing a dress?

Where do you draw the line? Are female rape victims to blame for being female?

Sorry dude, (I assume you are a dude, no offense meant) your logic doesn't stand up.



Why can't it be both?

Why can't we teach our kids better AND not let your personal kid be the punching bag?


Take an extreme example, if a group of crazy group of terrorists is going to behead your kid if they find out your kid is gay. Then they ask your kid if he is gay. What do you tell him to answer???

"Be yourself baby, don't let them tell you how to be..."

Or

"Pretend your straight till we get the hell outta here."

If you tell your kid to pretend are you supporting terrorists?

Does it mean you want all gays beheaded?



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

Take an extreme example, . . .

Everything has extremes.

Extreme is not a good argument.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: redshoes



The diagnosis ='s the swapping/hormones, there is no test, so the diagnosis is everything.


Nope, not true, a diagnosis, does not automatically result in the prescription of hormone therapy.



The diagnosis is only found to be validated 20% of the time (the 50% was me being conservative and allowing for inability to complete the change).

So we would be doing this 100% based on a diagnosis that only has a 20% confirmed success rate and an assumed (by my random self) 50% real success rate!!!!

So your kid is diagnosis as transgendered, you have a 50/50 chamce that diagnosis is right. Go you decide to stop puberty till 18, with there being no studies to tell what the end results are.....


Again, not true. You're assumption here is that gender identity expression is a fixed constant. There are plenty of studies that show this is probably not the case for a large degree of people.

Allowing a patient to express their chosen gender more often than not results in them coming to terms with who they really are and as a result the dysphoria is overcome. So even in the case of the 80% of kids who change their mind and go back to being their birth gender the outcome is a success.



If a persons gender is fluid, then the last thing we should do is go around changing kids....


There are no studies that show IF there are side effects...

So if some one is likely to go back and forth, with concern to gender. Then how the hell should we be stopping puberty in kids!!!

I'm down if we can confirm they are wired like the opposite sex, and always will be. Then it even makes sense to do the operation as early as possible.

But if it's not even something that is likely to remain true...that's just nuts...



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

Take an extreme example, . . .

Everything has extremes.

Extreme is not a good argument.


It's the same exact concept.

Would you unnecessarily make your kid a target, to make a point and/or on the opinion of a 4 year old.

That the kid would be targeted, I don't think is even debatable...



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

So now the schools are presenting birth certificates of the transgendered kids to all the students?


No, but the principal will know, and then whoever they tell. Unless you move outta state your going to be the gossip of your last town and today with social media especially, it's real hard to vanish. Your kids going to slip up sooner or later. When that happens, what is a bigger story?


Or they could just move to a city where there are far too many people for busybodies to worry about what everyone is doing.


And I am not validating any of that stuff, but I'd be damned before I decided to sentence my kid to that, and I don't care what she decides about any of that.....

I would help my kid hide a body. I would (beep) the whole time and talk trash...but i would go get a shovel and start digging.



So you would would help your kid get away with murder but not help them be happy about their gender JUST because of hypothetical bullying? The consequences for being uncovered for murder are FAR more severe than a bully or two picking on you while you are in school (something that only lasts for like 1/7th of your lifetime). Plus, for helping the kid bury the body, you get to share his consequences. I'm starting to doubt your claim of being a reasonable and logical person in the OP.
edit on 28-4-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Personally, I feel that some people are getting way to involved in other peoples lives. This world seems to be all about what other people are doing. This is more disturbing then the following point here, no offense to you OP.

I know you are only pointing something obviously others are in talking about and you obviously do not agree with it.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

So now the schools are presenting birth certificates of the transgendered kids to all the students?


No, but the principal will know, and then whoever they tell. Unless you move outta state your going to be the gossip of your last town and today with social media especially, it's real hard to vanish. Your kids going to slip up sooner or later. When that happens, what is a bigger story?


Or they could just move to a city where there are far too many people for busybodies to worry about what everyone is doing.


And I am not validating any of that stuff, but I'd be damned before I decided to sentence my kid to that, and I don't care what she decides about any of that.....

I would help my kid hide a body. I would (beep) the whole time and talk trash...but i would go get a shovel and start digging.



So you would would help your kid get away with murder but not help them be happy about their gender JUST because of hypothetical bullying? The consequences for being uncovered for murder are FAR more severe than a bully or two picking on you while you are in school (something that only lasts for like 1/7th of your lifetime). Plus, for helping the kid bury the body, you get to share his consequences. I'm starting to doubt your claim of being a reasonable and logical person in the OP.



Weather or not the process would fix her depression exc is hypothetical.

That she would be bullied (assuming you don't home school) is not hypothetical.

Hell even I'm my bs plan, there is a strong likelihood of bullying.

A total swap in grade school would guarentee it, prob putting your kids name at the top of the bully list.



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Weather or not the process would fix her depression exc is hypothetical.

That she would be bullied (assuming you don't home school) is not hypothetical.


Actually you couldn't be more wrong. Your bullying scenarios rely on quite a few "what-ifs". Gender reassignment surgery has a very good chance of helping depressed people with gender dysphoria. It may not be a given, but there is a correlation there that don't rely on fuzzy what-ifs.


Hell even I'm my bs plan, there is a strong likelihood of bullying.

A total swap in grade school would guarentee it, prob putting your kids name at the top of the bully list.


You put too much weight on bullying... It really can be a manageable problem. Especially if you can get the faculty on your side (which they should be). If the faculty is contributing to the problem, then change schools or report it to the school superintendent
edit on 28-4-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 02:03 PM
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Call me old fashioned but if a child is biologically male i.e born with male organs and male genes, then its MALE. Same applies to a kid born with female organs/genes..Its FEMALE.

Am i a hater and a bigot for having this opinion?



posted on Apr, 28 2016 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




And you keep trying to ignore the severity of the differences,

Doesn't look like either one is going to budge on this .




Irregardless isn't a word, and if they are overcome. Good for those people, but it still isn't the same thing as being transgendered.


Merriam Webster



Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance


I bet those same people feel equally as discriminated against if not more so .



I just want to mind my own business. If a family feels it is the right course of action, who am I to say no?


Agreed.




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