Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

So just add transgender to the long list of stupid things kids pick to bully other kids over. We both know that that list is completely arbitrary and up to the kid anyways. People get bullied for being too pretty, too ugly, too fat, too skinny, too smart, too dumb, too anything. So there is no point in sitting there saying, "well we shouldn't go through with this. Think about the bullying?" # the bullying. It is part of being a kid. If it wasn't transgendered, they'd be making fun of the kid because he was too effeminate for a boy or something else equally stupid.

Plus, until there is some form of definitive test, the parents will face ALOT of push back from employers, neighbors and family members, and be looked at as horrible parents....and not just by religious crazies.

Hence the counseling.

Those things don't ensure your kid is the primary target of bullies, every single grade, every single school, every single town.

Yes, because people go around announcing their transgenderism to the whole school in every school they move to. /sarc

You think the school won't know when you openly swapping... You have to present a birth certificate to register...

a reply to: JoshuaCox

So now the schools are presenting birth certificates of the transgendered kids to all the students?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

And like I said before. There has to be a ground floor to any science.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ah yes so, shall we say that any depraved experiments which may benefit mankind are okay because there must be a ground floor?

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
A Trans boy does not become a girl after hormone blockers or even a surgery. They are just the best facsimile of a girl that we can turn a boy into.

Maybe so, but he or she can certainly pass for the other gender. Moreso when the reassignment operation is done during childhood.

So I think the first point about some one wanting to be an animal is fair. Because, no we couldn't make them an animal, but we could make them the closest facsimile of an animal a human can get. Exactly the same as making a boy the closest facsimile of a girl we can.

Not even on the same level. Attempting to make a human into an animal will just result in them looking like a human with animal features. They wouldn't be able to pass for that animal. EVER. Again. A transperson can still pass for the opposite gender since they are still human.

But I'm not agreeing with the fact that because of this people are going to start trying to become animals....

That quote reeked of the "if we let gays marry, what's next, marrying animals!!" And I don't want any part of that one.

Yes, it comes off the same way to me too.

This emotional impact on either group isn't measurable.

Blocking puberty will not mean they cannot , nor guarentee they can, pass for the opposite sex as an adult. They will still have to tell any potential partners they were born the opposite.

They sure as hell won't pass in grade/highschool where the swap will guarentee them being made into a pin cushion for every bully in the area.

I work with high school and middle school kids after school. The tides are definitely changing. It is far more excepted than ever before. The fact that you even hear about the bullying of trans kids is a big step. It used to just get hushed and swept under the rug.

I also twice a year do an after school week long antibullying /self defence class. Most of it is based in posture, psychology, and language but there are physical self defence aspects. Best way to deal with bullys is confidence. They prey on the weak.

So a trans kid feeling confident not looking like the opposite sex of their gender identity (remaining androgenous before puberty) is a big step in confidence.

I agree it's getting better, and hopefully one day we will know enough to invent some form of test to ensure we get it right....but that isn't today.

So if you make that decision today. Then you are no question putting your child at the center of a tornado of @$$ holes.

My way to handle it, to recap:

Let your kid be themselves at home, but at school dress the kid some what unisex and maybe come up with a unisex version of their name. If there name is Keven Collins, go by KC instead.

That way your child can complete school work and such without being a target.

I would explain how no one gets to be themselves in public. We all play a role. If not I would go to work in my boxers and smoke pot at my desk

.but instead I iron my shirt and wait till the ride home to smoke.

The earlier your kid learns that almost none of being an adult involves "what you want to do" and the vast majority requires you to do stuff you don't" the better off the kid will be.

I do not see a crazy amount of mental anguish comming from this plan. The kid doesn't have to play a role constantly, just where it is in the kids best interest.

And no I would not punish them for being discovered or telling people. But I would not send my male sone dressed as a pretty pretty princess, when I KNOW he is likely to be assaulted, just because I want to make a political statement about right and wrong.

It doesn't matter what you see it matters what reality is. If your plan didn't work what would you do? I have to constantly adjust my plan to get a positive result with my son. Thats just being a parent. The parents with rigid plans often have the most trouble adapting to challenges.

If my kid can't handle that, then the problem is with my kid.

How will my kid hold down a job if they insist they don't have to wear a uniform?

What do you mean what I see? I've only focused on the reality of the situation, it's the emotional side I think is undefinable.


The reality doesn't seem to matter to the people who send there kid dressed in a way that makes them a target. That's the reality.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

And like I said before. There has to be a ground floor to any science.

A 50% success rate (my own bs figure) does not get you passed the fda, but it's good enough for children??

As long as legit trans kids are have the potential for a better life, then screw the rest?!?!

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Ah yes so, shall we say that any depraved experiments which may benefit mankind are okay because there must be a ground floor?

That's a hard question to answer. There are modern medical advancements that are in use today that we can directly attribute to the horrible things done to the Jews in the Holocaust. Now don't read this the wrong way, I'm not condoning what happened there, but the point is that science needs to get its start somewhere, and sometimes that may include setting aside your ethics to do so.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You should also note that hormone blockers are used commonly for a number of recognized medical conditions that have nothing to do with gender identity disorder. The protocols are well established and the drugs are controlled medications only available through prescription by a registered medical practitioner.

For example, T Blockers are used to treat some forms of advanced and chronic acne to prevent serious scarring.
Hormone blockers are also prescribed to some females to help regulate or alter menstrual cycles and other psychical problems.
These are the same drugs that are used to treat people with gender identity problems, although in most cases the prescribed dose is less for someone with GID.

These are not 'new' or 'radical' forms of treatment. The meds have been around for a long time and are well tested.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

And like I said before. There has to be a ground floor to any science.

A 50% success rate (my own bs figure) does not get you passed the fda, but it's good enough for children??

As long as legit trans kids are have the potential for a better life, then screw the rest?!?!

That 50% success rate you are referring to has nothing to do with the drugs working or causing side effects, which is what the FDA would be concerned with. So this is a false correlation.

a reply to: redshoes

Yeah. Agreed. This has already been pointed out, but that fact is being heavily downplayed to continue the narrative of "unknown side effects".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Man I just watched the remake of the movie Coma. Your comment made me think of that.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: redshoes

Yeah. Agreed. This has already been pointed out, but that fact is being heavily downplayed to continue the narrative of "unknown side effects".

To be fair there is actual concern within the medical community of the effects of the treatment on brain development. Again to me it comes down to risk analysis as a parent. Not to make it sound inpersonal. Is the possibility there may be a lag in brain development worse than the anguish of GD?

Parents also give their kids say a drug like canabis oil without widespread testing nearly all anecrdotal evidence because everything else failed and the situation is that in need of relief.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I understand that, but in a modern society we do not sideline ethics for progress. I mean if that were the case then they should go all out on stem research and genetic manipulation because hey so what if thousands of babies are killed or horribly mutated, in the end we could solve all genetic disorders and a whole host of other problems.

a reply to: luthier

Yeah. Medical advancements have always been a delicate balance between ethics and necessity.

a reply to: Azdraik

We are going all out on stem research.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: JoshuaCox

And like I said before. There has to be a ground floor to any science.

A 50% success rate (my own bs figure) does not get you passed the fda, but it's good enough for children??

As long as legit trans kids are have the potential for a better life, then screw the rest?!?!

50% success rate has nothing to do with the drugs working or causing side effects, so this is a false correlation.

The diagnosis ='s the swapping/hormones, there is no test, so the diagnosis is everything.


The diagnosis is only found to be validated 20% of the time (the 50% was me being conservative and allowing for inability to complete the change).

So we would be doing this 100% based on a diagnosis that only has a 20% confirmed success rate and an assumed (by my random self) 50% real success rate!!!!

So your kid is diagnosis as transgendered, you have a 50/50 chamce that diagnosis is right. S. So would you decide to stop puberty till 18, with there being no studies to tell what the end results are??

If my kid can't handle that, then the problem is with my kid.

How will my kid hold down a job if they insist they don't have to wear a uniform?

What do you mean what I see? I've only focused on the reality of the situation, it's the emotional side I think is undefinable.


The reality doesn't seem to matter to the people who send there kid dressed in a way that makes them a target. That's the reality.

Who are these people that you are referring to?

Would you not agree that a better solution might be to educate our kids to accept people no matter what their race/gender/religion etc?

why are you so prepared to accept that trans kids are somehow legitimate targets rather than those that are doing the targeting?

A kid gets beat up or worse because he wears a dress to school. And you seem to be implying that it's his own fault for wearing a dress?

Where do you draw the line? Are female rape victims to blame for being female?

Sorry dude, (I assume you are a dude, no offense meant) your logic doesn't stand up.

originally posted by: Azdraik
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I understand that, but in a modern society we do not sideline ethics for progress. I mean if that were the case then they should go all out on stem research and genetic manipulation because hey so what if thousands of babies are killed or horribly mutated, in the end we could solve all genetic disorders and a whole host of other problems.

Actually we do all the time. Especially because most kids are not taught philosophy or ethics and religion is fading so the chances of having deep understandings of ethics ingrained in a belief system comes by chance. Science can not replace philosophy in this regard. Yet we act like it does. Science doesn't really care about ethics. Nor does the market.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: redshoes

Yeah. Agreed. This has already been pointed out, but that fact is being heavily downplayed to continue the narrative of "unknown side effects".

To be fair there is actual concern within the medical community of the effects of the treatment on brain development. Again to me it comes down to risk analysis as a parent. Not to make it sound inpersonal. Is the possibility there may be a lag in brain development worse than the anguish of GD?

Parents also give their kids say a drug like canabis oil without widespread testing nearly all anecrdotal evidence because everything else failed and the situation is that in need of relief.

This is why I maintain that this isn't my business and the decision should be left up to a professional, the parents and the kid in question. It's not my place to decide what is best for the child. If the family agrees that transition would be best, then fine. Let's do it. I don't have many problems with the procedure as I've already mentioned.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
The diagnosis ='s the swapping/hormones, there is no test, so the diagnosis is everything.


The diagnosis is only found to be validated 20% of the time (the 50% was me being conservative and allowing for inability to complete the change).

So we would be doing this 100% based on a diagnosis that only has a 20% confirmed success rate and an assumed (by my random self) 50% real success rate!!!!

So your kid is diagnosis as transgendered, you have a 50/50 chamce that diagnosis is right. Go you decide to stop puberty till 18, with there being no studies to tell what the end results are.....

Clearly you don't know what I meant. The FDA only cares about if the medicine works as prescribed and the side effects are minimized. It doesn't care about the 50% transition rate of kids seeking help for gender dysphoria.