Denying something causes you to be it?

That sounds like a god (deliberate sic) plan

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: 1984hasarrived

If anything has been shown about the gods, is that they tend to be unreliable, work on plan B

Have you tried founding a Mega Church?

a reply to: 1984hasarrived

You could be like Joel Osteen and have hundreds of millions of dollars.

a reply to: TerryDon79


Claims to be the Jewish Messiah:
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe.”

The Jewish Messiah is God:
"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace."

Claims to be God:
"So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple."

How We know he is claiming to be God and why the Jews try to stone him:
"Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?" 14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

The Word(Logos) is God:
"1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

Jesus is the Logos made flesh:
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.’”) 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[d] 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Scripture is clear.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

No scripture is not clear at all. It's a walking contradiction. Mainly because its a mish mash of many ancient religions and myths. Also because fantastic things were added long after Christ supposedly died by people who weren't there.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Haha truth. Nope. The bird is the word. Seriously though why would a book of truth have so many contradictions and outright lies in it.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Scripture is not clear as none of that says Jesus is God.

What is clear is that if you interpret the writings to mean jesus is God then it's true.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I mean its clear what he meant if you take it in the proper context....you seem to favor a 21st century interpretation rather than studying how the people of the 1st century would have interpreted what he was saying.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TerryDon79

I mean its clear what he meant if you take it in the proper context

You mean interpret it that way?

you seem to favor a 21st century interpretation rather than studying how the people of the 1st century would have interpreted what he was saying.

More interpretation.

So if anyone reads it, without the bias of Jesus being God, you can clearly see he never says he is God.

a reply to: 1984hasarrived

Please tell me you put on some sun glasses like Horatio from CSI Miami after that?

Yep, complete with head tilt from below and to the side

a reply to: Noinden

a reply to: TerryDon79

More interpretation. So if anyone reads it, without the bias of Jesus being God, you can clearly see he never says he is God.

You seem to believe that it is the case that all interpretations are equally valid....

More interpretation. So if anyone reads it, without the bias of Jesus being God, you can clearly see he never says he is God.

It has nothing to do with their being a bias. If someone reads it and understands it as it would have been read and understood in the first century its quite clear Jesus is claiming to be God.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TerryDon79

More interpretation. So if anyone reads it, without the bias of Jesus being God, you can clearly see he never says he is God.

You seem to believe that it is the case that all interpretations are equally valid....

Um, no. Taking something how it is written is not interpretation. Reading a "meaning" or something that clearly isn't there is interpretation.

More interpretation. So if anyone reads it, without the bias of Jesus being God, you can clearly see he never says he is God.

It has nothing to do with their being a bias. If someone reads it and understands it as it would have been read and understood in the first century its quite clear Jesus is claiming to be God.

Of course it's bias. You see something that isn't written because that's what you were taught and/or believe. That means there's a bias involved.

Show me where Jesus claims to be God. I want to see Jesus saying "I am God".
Hint: He never does.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

How do you know that. That's only your interpretation. Seriously. What makes your interpretation the right one. Jesus clearly said. Why do you call me good there is none good but God. Boom. Why didn't Jesus write anything? I wonder.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I've already given you plenty of verses but you choose to be willingly ignorant of the message. Please tell me how studying history and understanding the mindset of a 1st century Jew in order to understand a something Jesus said to a group of Jews is being bias? That is more objective than taking a 2000 year old document at face value.


I am not reading meaning into anything. I am using cross references to Old Testament verses that Jesus was obviously eluding too seeing as his audience in John 10 is a group of Jews in a Jewish temple.

Show me where Jesus claims to be God. I want to see Jesus saying "I am God". Hint: He never does.

58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

Again this is a group of Jews who know Scripture well read the whole chapter of John 8 you'll find these Jews quoting Scripture to Jesus. Then notice there response to John 8:58, they try and stone him. They try to stone him in accordance with Leviticus 24:16"Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. "

In John 10 we read :

30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

"The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

Again they go to stone him in accordance with the verse mentioned above. Both instances these people around Jesus take his claim as him claiming to be God. Now you come along 2000 years later and try to say his claim was different. I am not the one misinterpreting this text . With that said, in John 8:58 what verse is Jesus eluding to?

a reply to: Joecanada11

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Its not just my interpretation...its an objective reading of the documents known as the Bible. You are the one falling prey to confirmation bias not me.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TerryDon79

I've already given you plenty of verses but you choose to be willingly ignorant of the message. Please tell me how studying history and understanding the mindset of a 1st century Jew in order to understand a something Jesus said to a group of Jews is being bias? That is more objective than taking a 2000 year old document at face value.

yes you did quote verses. None of which had Jesus saying he was god.

So you now understand how 1st century Jews thought? Well done! Now show me where Jesus said he was god.

I am not reading meaning into anything. I am using cross references to Old Testament verses that Jesus was obviously eluding too seeing as his audience in John 10 is a group of Jews in a Jewish temple.

yes you are. If you can't show where Jesus said he was god, it means you are interpreting and reading meanings into the words to mean that.

Show me where Jesus claims to be God. I want to see Jesus saying "I am God". Hint: He never does.

58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

thats just Jesus saying he is. It's not saying he is God, just that he is.

Again this is a group of Jews who know Scripture well read the whole chapter of John 8 you'll find these Jews quoting Scripture to Jesus. Then notice there response to John 8:58, they try and stone him. They try to stone him in accordance with Leviticus 24:16"Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. "

In John 10 we read :

30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

"The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

Again they go to stone him in accordance with the verse mentioned above. Both instances these people around Jesus take his claim as him claiming to be God. Now you come along 2000 years later and try to say his claim was different. I am not the one misinterpreting this text . With that said, in John 8:58 what verse is Jesus eluding to?

Still not saying he was god.

Interpretations and "hidden meanings". As for John 8.58. Yeah, he might be alluding to it if that's the way you interpret it.

I'll ask again. Show me where Jesus says "I am God".

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Joecanada11

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Its not just my interpretation...its an objective reading of the documents known as the Bible. You are the one falling prey to confirmation bias not me.

No. It's a SUBJECTIVE reading of the bible.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Still not saying he was god. Interpretations and "hidden meanings". As for John 8.58. Yeah, he might be alluding to it if that's the way you interpret it.

Its not interpretation it is reading comprehension......you completely dodged my question. He is obviously eluding to this verse and explains the Jews reaction to Jesus statement your view however has no explanatory power when it comes to the Jews responses and reactions. So I am going to ask you again what verse is he eluding to and please dont dodge.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: TerryDon79

Still not saying he was god. Interpretations and "hidden meanings". As for John 8.58. Yeah, he might be alluding to it if that's the way you interpret it.

Its not interpretation it is reading comprehension......you completely dodged my question. He is obviously eluding to this verse and explains the Jews reaction to Jesus statement your view however has no explanatory power when it comes to the Jews responses and reactions. So I am going to ask you again what verse is he eluding to and please dont dodge.

The thread is that Jesus never said he was god. Eluding to something, hinting at something, someone else saying he is, someone interpreting him saying it, doesn't make it so.

Even saying it doesn't make it so. But he doesn't say he is God, does he?

a reply to: TerryDon79

No its not because I am letting the documents interpret themselves. I didn't make those ideas they are in the text clear as day.